Collingwood’s next batch of youngsters

[PieLebo87]

I am needing some diehards to help with this. Those that have watched our trainings and are regular observers of our VFL team.

Could you somehow give a brief description of the type of players the below guys are, and either rank them from most likely to succeed at AFL to least likely? Alternatively, you could simply rate their likelihood to be a success at AFL level out of 10.

#19 Arlo Draper
#27 Cooper Murley
#29 Liam McMahon
#34 Isaac Chugg
#36 Harvey Harrison
#40 Ash Johnson
#43 Charlie Dean

And let’s add Josh Carmichael in for good measure!

We’ve pretty much got our best 22 in at the moment (minus Grundy and Elliott) and have seen what the debutants can do, so curious to know about the next batch after and who might be closest.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Most to least likely.

#43 Charlie Dean
Tall intercepting defender with excellent work ethic, fills a clear need and already extended by the club based on his showing on the training track. Not the highest ceiling, but seems the safest to have an AFL career.

#27 Cooper Murley
Slightly built speedster with excellent skills and can find the ball. Needs to add size to be able to compete but has tools.

#29 Liam McMahon
Similar to Dean but less dour, slightly taller and also less physically ready for seniors. Has potential at either end and shows moments of class.

#40 Ash Johnson
The highest ceiling of the group but question marks over fitness and durability. Highlights of running bounces probably won’t translate to AFL level opposition, but the high marking will.

#36 Harvey Harrison
Quick and strongly built half-forward, who can find the ball but disposal can vary. Does not have a clearly defined role he can walk into, which makes his senior prospects more murky.

#19 Arlo Draper
Classy mover who has only had small patches of influence in games to date. Hopefully it’s a fitness issue after returning from shoulder surgery, but he may suffer from inability to find the ball. Best suited to a wing at this stage, but has a ton of ground to make up on our current wingers.

#34 Isaac Chugg
Athletic specimen who has recently gotten midfield time in the VFL, but has little invested by the club and disposal is erratic. Best chance of breaking into senior side would appear to be as a back pocket but hasn’t thrived in that role in reserves footy. Being a carry-over emergency for seniors gives some cause for optimism but seems a longshot to make an AFL career for himself.

 

[PieLebo87]

Most to least likely.

#43 Charlie Dean
Tall intercepting defender with excellent work ethic, fills a clear need and already extended by the club based on his showing on the training track. Not the highest ceiling, but seems the safest to have an AFL career.

#27 Cooper Murley
Slightly built speedster with excellent skills and can find the ball. Needs to add size to be able to compete but has tools.

#29 Liam McMahon
Similar to Dean but less dour, slightly taller and also less physically ready for seniors. Has potential at either end and shows moments of class.

#40 Ash Johnson
The highest ceiling of the group but question marks over fitness and durability. Highlights of running bounces probably won’t translate to AFL level opposition, but the high marking will.

#36 Harvey Harrison
Quick and strongly built half-forward, who can find the ball but disposal can vary. Does not have a clearly defined role he can walk into, which makes his senior prospects more murky.

#19 Arlo Draper
Classy mover who has only had small patches of influence in games to date. Hopefully it’s a fitness issue after returning from shoulder surgery, but he may suffer from inability to find the ball. Best suited to a wing at this stage, but has a ton of ground to make up on our current wingers.

#34 Isaac Chugg
Athletic specimen who has recently gotten midfield time in the VFL, but has little invested by the club and disposal is erratic. Best chance of breaking into senior side would appear to be as a back pocket but hasn’t thrived in that role in reserves footy. Being a carry-over emergency for seniors gives some cause for optimism but seems a longshot to make an AFL career for himself.

Awesome dissection TRS, thank you.

Do you reckon Carmichael would slot in at #2 - #5 or further back considering the SANFL experience + age?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Hard to say given I’ve only seen the highlights everyone else has.

I think I would have him on a par with Murley at #2 most likely. I have unanswered questions over Carmichael’s pace, disposal and inside work. That’s not to say any of those are a problem. I don’t have questions over his size, endurance, potential role within the team, or ability to play against men. That’s a good start.

 

[legendstatus]

Most to least likely.

#43 Charlie Dean
Tall intercepting defender with excellent work ethic, fills a clear need and already extended by the club based on his showing on the training track. Not the highest ceiling, but seems the safest to have an AFL career.

#27 Cooper Murley
Slightly built speedster with excellent skills and can find the ball. Needs to add size to be able to compete but has tools.

#29 Liam McMahon
Similar to Dean but less dour, slightly taller and also less physically ready for seniors. Has potential at either end and shows moments of class.

#40 Ash Johnson
The highest ceiling of the group but question marks over fitness and durability. Highlights of running bounces probably won’t translate to AFL level opposition, but the high marking will.

#36 Harvey Harrison
Quick and strongly built half-forward, who can find the ball but disposal can vary. Does not have a clearly defined role he can walk into, which makes his senior prospects more murky.

#19 Arlo Draper
Classy mover who has only had small patches of influence in games to date. Hopefully it’s a fitness issue after returning from shoulder surgery, but he may suffer from inability to find the ball. Best suited to a wing at this stage, but has a ton of ground to make up on our current wingers.

#34 Isaac Chugg
Athletic specimen who has recently gotten midfield time in the VFL, but has little invested by the club and disposal is erratic. Best chance of breaking into senior side would appear to be as a back pocket but hasn’t thrived in that role in reserves footy. Being a carry-over emergency for seniors gives some cause for optimism but seems a longshot to make an AFL career for himself.

Krueger ?

Athletic, physical, high marking & good speed for a tall but not durable as yet - needs to curtail his aggression and pick his moments - could be the recruit of (a) year if he gets a clear run


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I just went of PL’s list.

 

[PieLebo87]

Krueger ?

Athletic, physical, high marking & good speed for a tall but not durable as yet - needs to curtail his aggression and pick his moments - could be the recruit of (a) year if he gets a clear run


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I was referencing the ones who we haven’t seen at senior level yet.

Krugs would probably be top of that list!

 

[JM#1]

I'm a little concerned that there are currently no clear gun midfielders/ball winners emerging (ie, Newcombe at Hawthorn, Warner at Sydney). This of course can change very quickly depending on development.

 

[Mark W]

Most to least likely.

#43 Charlie Dean
Tall intercepting defender with excellent work ethic, fills a clear need and already extended by the club based on his showing on the training track. Not the highest ceiling, but seems the safest to have an AFL career.

#27 Cooper Murley
Slightly built speedster with excellent skills and can find the ball. Needs to add size to be able to compete but has tools.

#29 Liam McMahon
Similar to Dean but less dour, slightly taller and also less physically ready for seniors. Has potential at either end and shows moments of class.

#40 Ash Johnson
The highest ceiling of the group but question marks over fitness and durability. Highlights of running bounces probably won’t translate to AFL level opposition, but the high marking will.

#36 Harvey Harrison
Quick and strongly built half-forward, who can find the ball but disposal can vary. Does not have a clearly defined role he can walk into, which makes his senior prospects more murky.

#19 Arlo Draper
Classy mover who has only had small patches of influence in games to date. Hopefully it’s a fitness issue after returning from shoulder surgery, but he may suffer from inability to find the ball. Best suited to a wing at this stage, but has a ton of ground to make up on our current wingers.

#34 Isaac Chugg
Athletic specimen who has recently gotten midfield time in the VFL, but has little invested by the club and disposal is erratic. Best chance of breaking into senior side would appear to be as a back pocket but hasn’t thrived in that role in reserves footy. Being a carry-over emergency for seniors gives some cause for optimism but seems a longshot to make an AFL career for himself.

Good list, FWIW, here is mine, a little different

agree Dean is #1, not overly athletic or exciting but I’m confident he will be a solid 2nd tall KPD

#2 Johnson he Isn’t going to top the 1%er stats but a jumping jack markologist with enormous upside

#3 Murley - see RS comments

#4 Harrison - a mini poor man’s Dangerfield, only flashing in and out of play at the moment, but quick powerful and I love the way he can burst at pace out of a pack. And he loves a goal. Not as polished as Murley but I think his disposal is ok. A future small forward, high half forward..

#5 McMahon - I’m a lot less bullish than RS, I agree, nice athleticism and skills but I am highly suspicious of talls who don’t win 1 on 1 contests or play tall. Maybe it will come when he puts on some size, cause he is still very skinny, but unless he starts playing with a bit of aggression and starts clunking some marks, I’m not that hopeful.

#6 Draper there are glimpses of a composed and classy footballer there, but he is struggling to find the footy at the moment

#7 Chugg - I’ve seen 2 good games so maybe there’s a glimmer of hope, but also a dozen mediocre ones. I just don’t see any AFL weapons, frankly looks like one of the VFL boys in terms of skill and athleticism..

 

[Mark W]

I'm a little concerned that there are currently no clear gun midfielders/ball winners emerging (ie, Newcombe at Hawthorn, Warner at Sydney). This of course can change very quickly depending on development.

I think that’s a legitimate concern. We really need a couple of inside bulls like Newcombe

 

[Masked Magician]

Most Likely to Least Likely:

I have it in 3 tiers:

Likely:
#43 Charlie Dean - Born leader, won't leave a stone un-turned to get the best out of himself and his teammates. Only downside/weakness is he is a touch on the slow side.

#36 Harvey Harrison - Pace to burn and a body. Has a willingness to hit the contest hard with regards to stoppage work. Needs a lot of work on his tank and his consistency in his kicking. His best kicks are awesome but he can be a bit hit and miss.

#29 Liam McMahon - Silky skills and moves pretty well. Good height. Unsure whether he will be a Key Fwd or Key Back. Judge him after 2023 or 2024. An issue with his body or his unwillingness to push through injury.


Somewhat likely:
#40 Ash Johnson - All the tools but is a bit older so he needs to be good to go. I think he'll get a chance either toward the end of this season or into 2023.

Unlikely:
#19 Arlo Draper - Way too soft from what I've seen, in the contest and with his body.
#27 Cooper Murley - Too small
#34 Isaac Chugg - Honest as anything but chops it up by foot.

 

[PieLebo87]

Interesting that everyone has Chugg so low on their lists and he has been an emergency for the seniors a couple of times now. What’s the go there? I would’ve thought, based on him making the extended lineup a few times, he was closer than mentioned. I did notice the last time, he’d had single digit possessions in the VFL so it raised an eyebrow.

 

[Aussie pie]

Honestly I haven’t seen much of Arlo and that’s when he’s actually playing. Will need a photo of a footy in his locker to recognise it as he doesn’t see it in a game.

Ok maybe a bit harsh but the delight of the recruiting team that he “slipped” to us in the draft has well and truly gone. I think we can see why he slipped.

All the others I’m a big rap for. Can’t wait to see Ash in the AFL, he’ll be fun to watch, Murley and HH have been really improving same as Chugg. Liam needs more gym time and patience in the VFL.

 

[Kappa]

Interesting that everyone has Chugg so low on their lists and he has been an emergency for the seniors a couple of times now. What’s the go there? I would’ve thought, based on him making the extended lineup a few times, he was closer than mentioned. I did notice the last time, he’d had single digit possessions in the VFL so it raised an eyebrow.

The club has in the past made people emergency only to delist them a few weeks later, it's sometimes used as a participation award rather than a genuine indicator a player is close to senior football.

 

[The Phantom]

Chuggy had a great first half on Sunday, only to be whisked over to the G as spare parts.
Had he played on, the result could have been different.
Doesn’t seem like pure encouragement award stuff to me.

 

[sr36]

Interesting that everyone has Chugg so low on their lists and he has been an emergency for the seniors a couple of times now. What’s the go there? I would’ve thought, based on him making the extended lineup a few times, he was closer than mentioned. I did notice the last time, he’d had single digit possessions in the VFL so it raised an eyebrow.

Chugg being named is about our lack of depth. He doesn't have any class, but he's fast and strong and provides an AFL level contest with second efforts. Other than Cal there's noone else they can bring in that won't result in a drop off in the intensity that has been getting us across the line

 

[Johno9911]

I would not be too concerned about young Draper at this stage. First year in the system and coming off quite a serious LTI means he was always going to be well behind the pack, hopefully he can pick up in the second half of 2022. While at present he seems best suited to a wing, he was a damaging inside midfielder as a junior, who could win the footy in tight, but was also extremely damaging on the spread with good decision making and clean skills, as well as able to be a threat i50 when required.

He will need to work on his body/strength before making the switch to an inside mid, but he has the skill set imo and last year he was considered by many as the 2nd best prospect coming out of SA (behind Horne-Francis), until injury curtailed his season. While he may be a "slow burn" I think we have a player in Arlo and think we will see a big improvement with a strong pre-season heading into 2023.

 

[half_back_flank]

I'm a little concerned that there are currently no clear gun midfielders/ball winners emerging (ie, Newcombe at Hawthorn, Warner at Sydney). This of course can change very quickly depending on development.

Excluding the bloke who had 36 touches last weekend.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I'm a little concerned that there are currently no clear gun midfielders/ball winners emerging (ie, Newcombe at Hawthorn, Warner at Sydney). This of course can change very quickly depending on development.

I mean... This list leaves out guys with senior experience like Nick Daicos, Macrae, Poulter, McInnes (who's being played up forward in the seniors but probably has more future as a coal-face midfielder long term), plus the recently added Josh Carmichael.

 

[KinderSmock]

Most to least likely.

#43 Charlie Dean
Tall intercepting defender with excellent work ethic, fills a clear need and already extended by the club based on his showing on the training track. Not the highest ceiling, but seems the safest to have an AFL career.

#27 Cooper Murley
Slightly built speedster with excellent skills and can find the ball. Needs to add size to be able to compete but has tools.

#29 Liam McMahon
Similar to Dean but less dour, slightly taller and also less physically ready for seniors. Has potential at either end and shows moments of class.

#40 Ash Johnson
The highest ceiling of the group but question marks over fitness and durability. Highlights of running bounces probably won’t translate to AFL level opposition, but the high marking will.

#36 Harvey Harrison
Quick and strongly built half-forward, who can find the ball but disposal can vary. Does not have a clearly defined role he can walk into, which makes his senior prospects more murky.

#19 Arlo Draper
Classy mover who has only had small patches of influence in games to date. Hopefully it’s a fitness issue after returning from shoulder surgery, but he may suffer from inability to find the ball. Best suited to a wing at this stage, but has a ton of ground to make up on our current wingers.

#34 Isaac Chugg
Athletic specimen who has recently gotten midfield time in the VFL, but has little invested by the club and disposal is erratic. Best chance of breaking into senior side would appear to be as a back pocket but hasn’t thrived in that role in reserves footy. Being a carry-over emergency for seniors gives some cause for optimism but seems a longshot to make an AFL career for himself.

First, brilliant write up. I really appreciate people who present information so clearly and don't have derogatory remarks towards developing players. There are a few things that I'd like to add but that doesn't take away from this post!

Murley - agree, speed is a massive plus. His recent VFL form could indicate he's closer to a debut, though.

Harrison - named as an emergency very early on in the season, I think he could be our Dane Swan. Drafted with Pick 52 (Swannie was 58) and wearing the same number, I think he has a role in the middle. He'll take time to develop but from the limited ball he's had, I see a potential star. I think the VFL midfield has got players who rack 'em up and as he's not the in-and-under sort, his role is hard to see.

Chugg - his athleticism was the reason he got drafted. Oh, and a good pre-season game against Dayne Zorko that few would know about. He shut down Zorko very well at 17. Given he was installing a garage door when he was told that he was a Pie, packed up his tools and went to his footy club for the media interview, I'm not surprised he's taken a while. Chugg is a fan-favourite and I think he has a future, it's just finding the right role. He can run, although blue gatorade showers have been known to occur.

 

[KinderSmock]

I would not be too concerned about young Draper at this stage. First year in the system and coming off quite a serious LTI means he was always going to be well behind the pack, hopefully he can pick up in the second half of 2022. While at present he seems best suited to a wing, he was a damaging inside midfielder as a junior, who could win the footy in tight, but was also extremely damaging on the spread with good decision making and clean skills, as well as able to be a threat i50 when required.

He will need to work on his body/strength before making the switch to an inside mid, but he has the skill set imo and last year he was considered by many as the 2nd best prospect coming out of SA (behind Horne-Francis), until injury curtailed his season. While he may be a "slow burn" I think we have a player in Arlo and think we will see a big improvement with a strong pre-season heading into 2023.

Shoulders injuries can occur more if not managed properly so I like the conserved approach. We're in no rush to develop Draper, so it's better he plays VFL and builds than be plunged in the fryer and be off our books, with limited ROM in his shoulder in two years.

They'll be regretting no drafting Draper in a few years and he joins the list of unusually shrewd additions we've had in the past two seasons. Ginnivan is chief candidate.

 

[Big Bryza]

Excluding the bloke who had 36 touches last weekend.

He's more G.Ablett Jnr than an inside bull.

 

[Markfs]

no one mentioned will kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

....who actually took a couple of marks in the VFL.

 

[The Phantom]

He was good marking. Not quite as good distributing.

 

[No SPIN]

no one mentioned will kelly....who actually took a couple of marks in the VFL.

He would need far more consistency, effort and application to restore my beleaguered faith in him.
It’s certainly not beyond him, and one can only hope given his natural athleticism.