Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

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Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

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[Hendrix27]

Yeah ... I haven't wobbled on it yet. Here it is, just a theory.

Officially, no cause of death could be made for Richard. He may have been killed in BVEs house and not left evidence of a violent, bloody crime scene. We know Richard was there and can be confident in the fibres evidence though, the fibres evidence is trustworthy.

(Edit: It was the fibres evidence that got BVE to change his story and admit that Richard was in his house.)

What isn't trustworthy IMO and frustrates everybody involved, not just investigators but those who have to prosecute the case against von Einem later, is the pathologist/s reports first with their estimated time of death placing him as alive just before he was dumped in the bush then, with their time of death in mind, they mis/interpret the bruising. Neither of them had any training in histopathology (bruising) ten years later they still hadn't had any training and Keogh's conviction was overturned on a bruising issue. To this day though, it's difficult to tell the difference between pre and post mortem bruising and science still can't determine if a body's been frozen.

There's a question about the length of Richard's hair. Was it assumed he'd had a haircut because there was no growth? If his hair hadn't grown in the five weeks he was missing, it's not because he was given a haircut. It's because he was on ice for approximately four weeks out of the five.

The theory is that Richard died at BVEs house while his mother was away and likely one, two or three nights before BVE went back to work. This would also be more consistent with other crimes, held for days not over a month. When he died, BVE washed and redressed him in his own clothes that were scattered on BVEs bedroom floor and which is probably how the inside of Richard's jeans picked up snippets of BVEs freshly cut hair.

Then Richard was put into a freezer fully clothed and the post death processes were halted, locked in with the fibres evidence that tells the story of where he was just before he died. When he's taken out of the freezer he's exactly the same as he went in, as if he died just yesterday and the process of decay begins again where it left off.

While Richard's in freezer storage, BVE carries on as normal creating alibi. He knows that freezing a body makes it almost impossible to accurately nail time of death, effectively hiding it. He got the idea from following the Derrence Stephenson case and it almost worked for him.

Even if the cops realised at some point that Richard probably wasn't alive for the entire five weeks, they're stuck with building a brief around the pathologist's report.

I like your theory but I believe he may well of been kept alive for the whole 5 weeks in various locations. I'd rather your theory be correct due to what he would of suffered being kept alive for 5 weeks, but nothing would surprise me with these sick pricks

 

[Hendrix27]

Exactly what l believe happened. I have always hoped Richard's parents and loved ones believed this too. The thought of him being held and hurt over 5 weeks is horrendous.

I've never looked at it like that before, very interesting theory. Especially as some of the other victims were only held for a few days, and 5 weeks seems like a hell of a long time to keep someone alive and hidden and drugged. Unfortunately we will never know the full truth of what happened, BVE will never tell, nor will the few of his deviant associates still alive.

 

[bth18]

he was held long enough to have his hair cut, he also had healing bruises on his back and a healing wound on his head - so whilst it may make us feel better to think he was held shorter than reported, its likely he was held for a while

 

[Kurve]

Exactly what l believe happened. I have always hoped Richard's parents and loved ones believed this too. The thought of him being held and hurt over 5 weeks is horrendous.

Mr. and Mrs. Kelvin have never spoken to the press faik and Debi Marshall specifically said that she didn't even try to make contact. Rob Kelvin, with a lot of experience and a long career in the media was well positioned to advocate and offer representations in appeals for information, they chose distance. Perhaps because they knew something else that was counter to the pathologist report.

 

[bth18]

yeah to be honest I found it a little off putting that Debi was more than happy to track down and knock on the doors of the lower socioeconomic families of the victims

 

[DropBearess]

Mr. and Mrs. Kelvin have never spoken to the press faik and Debi Marshall specifically said that she didn't even try to make contact. Rob Kelvin, with a lot of experience and a long career in the media was well positioned to advocate and offer representations in appeals for information, they chose distance. Perhaps because they knew something else that was counter to the pathologist report.

I guess Rob Kelvin used his long media experience wisely. He would have known the power of media and the forces of good and evil it can wield better than anyone. Choosing to say nothing was wise. I don't think there were any secrets. Even if there were, it doesn't change anything.

The Kelvin family were devastated. They didn't need to make any public appeals; channel 9 did this for them so they could deal with the unimaginable stress in private. Rob Kelvin gradually returned to newsreading. It was sensitively managed in that whenever there was news in this case, another newsreader would take the helm.

 

[Kurve]

he was held long enough to have his hair cut, he also had healing bruises on his back and a healing wound on his head - so whilst it may make us feel better to think he was held shorter than reported, its likely he was held for a while

Wounds begin to heal almost immediately so I'm not doubting there was evidence of that but if you trust the forensic pathologist's report entirely on time of death and interpretive bruising, I understand your position.

 

[DropBearess]

he was held long enough to have his hair cut, he also had healing bruises on his back and a healing wound on his head - so whilst it may make us feel better to think he was held shorter than reported, its likely he was held for a while

he was held long enough to have his hair cut, he also had healing bruises on his back and a healing wound on his head - so whilst it may make us feel better to think he was held shorter than reported, its likely he was held for a while

But as Kurve mentioned, there is a good possibility of Richard having been frozen. If so, when found, he would have been just the same when thawed. I'm not sure about any hair cut. When you look at the other 4 victims, BVE and Co had a definite preference for boys and men with long hair.

 

[SquiffyRae]

Wasn't it confirmed by the Kelvins (or at least someone quoting the Kelvins) that Richard's hair had been cut at some point?

Knowing that there's a hairdresser among them it certainly doesn't seem that far-fetched

 

[Loony Juice]

Greetings all, excellent thread. Loads of information, many credible opinions. Very impressive. Have to confess I'm a long time lurker and first time poster, on this particular thread. I am re-reading Dissected by Greg McInerney and Wendy Roles. Have read Debi Marshall's Banquet, and I consider Dissected to be the better book of the two. Written more concisely, edited better and without the 'me, me, me' factor, which I say despite the fact I respect what Debi Marshall did re; suppression orders, Lewis Turtur and a couple other facets. Keep up the good work.

 

[Loony Juice]

Also as point of interest to some, I was researching clocks shops in the inner southern suburbs as one does. I noticed a certain clock shop, whose business name includes the name of a person and decided to check it out. There are some goo gle reviews on there which are quite amusing from the last month, and they pertain to........well maybe check it out.

 

[Loony Juice]

Can anyone help me with Mr B's real name? Have seen it mentioned that it's early in the thread, have had a look, but I'm still on name which is the same as a noted South African Cricketer. Any help please?

 

[Kurve]

This in 2001, 18 years later and Richard was out in the scrub for two weeks decomposing. I'm not invested in trying to prove this as a theory but I think it's still viable given it was 1983 and I'm really only persisting with it because I can see a time in to the future when the autopsy and all the pathology is reviewed.

Anyway, you never know, someone could check in here who has access and it might prompt them to have a look, just in case.

I'm sure it isn't lost on most who engage in here regularly, that Colin Manock was living in an apartment on Ward Street when Richard was abducted in a laneway directly off Ward Street.

Does anybody know, when BVE admitted to taking Richard to his house, where he said he picked Richard up from and what his reason for being there was?


2001 Dec 15;124(1):22-4.
doi: 10.1016/s0379-0738(01)00566-7.

Method for determining if a corpse has been frozen: measuring the activity of short-chain 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase (SCHAD)​

A Miras 1, H Yapo-Ette, C Vianey-Saban, D Malicier, L Fanton
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 11741755
• DOI: 10.1016/s0379-0738(01)00566-7

Abstract​

Accidental deaths by exposure to the cold have figured in many publications, whereas the freezing of the corpse is not well known. The study which we have reported was motivated by an observation of homicide in which ignorance of the fact that the body had been frozen was responsible for an underestimation of the time since death. It proved that measuring the activity of short-chain 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase (SCHAD) could reveal that the body had been frozen.

 

[Kurve]

Wasn't it confirmed by the Kelvins (or at least someone quoting the Kelvins) that Richard's hair had been cut at some point?

Knowing that there's a hairdresser among them it certainly doesn't seem that far-fetched

Sorry Squiffy, I think it's ridiculous to think that anybody would have gone anywhere near Richard to give him a haircut after he was abducted with his face everywhere as Rob Kelvin's son and most of Adelaide on alert looking for him. Even if he'd lived, anyone involved in it would be going to prison for a very long time.

Why would Denis risk it all for that? IF Richard had a haircut, it was cut by someone who was there when he was abducted and already in over their heads imo.

There's been no suggestion that Denis drove around with BVE picking up hitchikers and drugging young boys faik. He was quite good looking with a (mostly) cash business and customers to flirt with all day most days, he probably could have had a different date every night of the week if he felt like it.

 

[acermark]

Does anybody know, when BVE admitted to taking Richard to his house, where he said he picked Richard up from and what his reason for being there was?

BVE said that he picked up Richard at the intersection of Marian & Boulton Streets after BVE had been driving along Boulton St and nearly hit Richard who was running into the intersection from Marian St. BVE said he was there looking for a parking spot to buy fish and chips for dinner on O'Connell St.

 

[Kurve]

BVE said that he picked up Richard at the intersection of Marian & Boulton Streets after BVE had been driving along Boulton St and nearly hit Richard who was running into the intersection from Marian St. BVE said he was there looking for a parking spot to buy fish and chips for dinner on O'Connell St.

Nearly a twenty minute drive from where he lived in Paradise? Seems to be a long way to get fish and chips, he might have come up with a better story than that.

 

[DropBearess]

Nearly a twenty minute drive from where he lived in Paradise? Seems to be a long way to get fish and chips, he might have come up with a better story than that.

Yes indeed. Especially given he was too sick to collect his mother from Houghton that night as arranged. So sick he had to stay in bed for the next week. A belly full of fish n chips is the last thing most people would want when incubating flu.

 

[Loony Juice]

Sorry Squiffy, I think it's ridiculous to think that anybody would have gone anywhere near Richard to give him a haircut after he was abducted with his face everywhere as Rob Kelvin's son and most of Adelaide on alert looking for him. Even if he'd lived, anyone involved in it would be going to prison for a very long time.

Why would Denis risk it all for that? IF Richard had a haircut, it was cut by someone who was there when he was abducted and already in over their heads imo.

There's been no suggestion that Denis drove around with BVE picking up hitchikers and drugging young boys faik. He was quite good looking with a (mostly) cash business and customers to flirt with all day most days, he probably could have had a different date every night of the week if he felt like it.

Don't think that was going to be enough. He's a depraved piece of filth too. He most definitely participated with bve in drugging and abusing victims, maybe not cruising with the trans and picking the victims up, but participating no doubt in their vile acts.

 

[utility]

When cells are frozen the water inside expands, changing the cell walls and water content. It's obvious if tissue has been frozen then thawed.

Have forensic methods updated? Apparently worked for Kuklinski until he got sloppy.

 

[Kurve]

Don't think that was going to be enough. He's a depraved piece of filth too. He most definitely participated with bve in drugging and abusing victims, maybe not cruising with the trans and picking the victims up, but participating no doubt in their vile acts.

How do you know this? Do you have a link?

 

[Loony Juice]

How do you know this? Do you have a link?

He is, should I say was, one of the peripheral suspects. Not a main player (bve, mrs r, mrs b, rdb, sgw) but known to be participant.

 

[Loony Juice]

Have forensic methods updated? Apparently worked for Kuklinski until he got sloppy.

Kuklinski is a known, prolific bullshittter

 

[Loony Juice]

Well big time exaggerator is probably more apt.

 

[Kurve]

He is, should I say was, one of the peripheral suspects. Not a main player (bve, mrs r, mrs b, rdb, sgw) but known to be participant.

He was investigated I'm sure but so were many others. I have to ask again, how do you know he was involved in giving stupefying drugs to unwitting young men so he could rape them?

 

[Loony Juice]

He was investigated I'm sure but so were many others. I have to ask again, how do you know he was involved in giving stupefying drugs to unwitting young men so he could rape them?

If I had any shred of evidence on any of these maggots, the cops would get it.
It is known that for periods of time bve and dsd rented units/flats/townhouses/houses, in addition to their primary places of residence for the express purpose of using for their nefarious activities.
Even drawing a long bow, and suggesting dsd wasn't involved is a stretch in my opinion.
And even in the remote possibility that were the case, that dsd wasn't involved in vile acts with bve, that makes him akin to a priest who has not committed sexual abuse, but has sheltered those that did/do. And I'm hypothesizing here, as it's pretty clear they were close friends who enjoyed 'rough trade'