Unpopular AFL Opinions

[Falcon3518]

I don’t have a top 10 and your frankly Bailey-Smith-Near-White-Powder level of fixation on it is borderline scary.

I didn’t bring up rankings. You brought up the merits of honoring players in the hall of fame from other leagues.

That’s it. That’s literally it. If you have an addictive need to turn every football discussion into a ranking-fisting love-in, go for it.

But try and address the actual topic people are engaging you about.

Firstly, you had the issue about my opinion. Again you couldn’t leave it alone then blame me for responding. Also can you stop insulting people. I hope you’re not like this in the real world. This is an Unpopular opinion thread and I said an unpopular opinion, deal with it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Firstly, you had the issue about my opinion. Again you couldn’t leave it alone then blame me for responding. Also can you stop insulting people. I hope you’re not like this in the real world. This is an Unpopular opinion thread and I said an unpopular opinion, deal with it.

I addressed your point and responded to it.

Since that point all you’ve done is thrashwank about goats and rankings

 

[Falcon3518]

I addressed your point and responded to it.

Since that point all you’ve done is thrashwank about goats and rankings

I started talking about that because you gave the example of Bunton Sr being one of the best of all time. So it’s logical to compare him to others in the discussion.

 

[PhatBoy]

I started talking about that because you gave the example of Bunton Sr being one of the best of all time. So it’s logical to compare him to others in the discussion.

I gave that example because, as examples do, he exemplifies why players from other leagues are acknowledged and respected the way they are.

It’s not logical to compare him to others in the discussion - for starters there’s a lot more than 10 people in the HOF and at legend status etc so a top 10 list is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Address the point, or if you don’t, get told you haven’t addressed it. Pretty straightforward

 

[Lingsface]

Well he must be your GOAT then. Triple the amount of Brownlows as GAJ is insane. We can end all the GOAT threads now.

I see sandover medals the same way as the AFLW Brownlow. The best of the second tier players. Only his 3 AFL/VFL ones are legit, which is the general consensus when people compare him for GOAT status.

The VFL was probably a standout comp over the period but only by a small margin, the WAFL had Barry Cable ,The Krakouers ,Stephen Michael ,Polly Farmer this was just our Aboriginal talent that was missing from the VFL and when they went over they were superstars (Michael didn’t go over). Peter Featherby held the possesions record when he went to Geelong for years , Hayden bunton dominated both earlier , Graham Moss Brad Hardie…. The list goes on.

Then the WA team came and all the best west Australians came home and played for the eagles, they played in a grand final within 2 years they won 2 of the next 3. So to say there was a huge gap between the two states is a fair way off the mark.

After introduction to the league, Brownlow medalists from Western Australia include Simon Black, Ben Cousins, Shane Woewodin, Nat Fyfe and Matt Priddis.

The last man to kick 1000 goals was Western Australian, Lance Franklin Josh Kennedy and Scott Cummings won Coleman medals.

So we have a fair case for having a very very strong state for producing talent, credit is deserved for these awards achieved before the vfl wafl sanfl and others came together.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

State of Origin is being talked about more so because Eagles fans demand success and they need a reason to feel like winners.

 

[PhatBoy]

The VFL was probably a standout comp over the period but only by a small margin, the WAFL had Barry Cable ,The Krakouers ,Stephen Michael ,Polly Farmer this was just our Aboriginal talent that was missing from the VFL and when they went over they were superstars (Michael didn’t go over). Peter Featherby held the possesions record when he went to Geelong for years , Hayden bunton dominated both earlier , Graham Moss Brad Hardie…. The list goes on.

Then the WA team came and all the best west Australians came home and played for the eagles, they played in a grand final within 2 years they won 2 of the next 3. So to say there was a huge gap between the two states is a fair way off the mark.

After introduction to the league, Brownlow medalists from Western Australia include Simon Black, Ben Cousins, Shane Woewodin, Nat Fyfe and Matt Priddis.

The last man to kick 1000 goals was Western Australian, Lance Franklin Josh Kennedy and Scott Cummings won Coleman medals.

So we have a fair case for having a very very strong state for producing talent, credit is deserved for these awards achieved before the vfl wafl sanfl and others came together.

You could draw parallels with dozens of other sports.
Australia is historically the greatest cricket nation and if you were electing players from domestic first class competitions into a hall of fame etc, pound for pound australia would have probably the most inductees and I’m sure there would be people out there saying ‘but NZ or West Indies domestic cricket isn’t nearly as good as Shield cricket so a star in those competitions shouldn’t be afforded that recognition.’

Such an idea however would completely disregard the fact that for 15-20 years the Red Stripe Cup was the best domestic comp on the planet. The Currie Cup in SA was at a similar standard for a long time.

Being dominant overall, as Victorian football has, doesn’t mean it’s been dominant forever.

 

[Lingsface]

You could draw parallels with dozens of other sports.
Australia is historically the greatest cricket nation and if you were electing players from domestic first class competitions into a hall of fame etc, pound for pound australia would have probably the most inductees and I’m sure there would be people out there saying ‘but NZ or West Indies domestic cricket isn’t nearly as good as Shield cricket so a star in those competitions shouldn’t be afforded that recognition.’

Such an idea however would completely disregard the fact that for 15-20 years the Red Stripe Cup was the best domestic comp on the planet. The Currie Cup in SA was at a similar standard for a long time.

Being dominant overall, as Victorian football has, doesn’t mean it’s been dominant forever.

I am struggling to see the comparisons in this when you are jumping from international to domestic, if what you are saying is different periods one was better than the other then I agree, but my argument of giving recognition to winners of the best player awards in these leagues should be held on a similar level to each other in the period that they where seperate competitions.

I don’t know enough about domestic level cricket in other countries to draw any sort of comparison to this subject sorry.

 

[Falcon3518]

The VFL was probably a standout comp over the period but only by a small margin, the WAFL had Barry Cable ,The Krakouers ,Stephen Michael ,Polly Farmer this was just our Aboriginal talent that was missing from the VFL and when they went over they were superstars (Michael didn’t go over). Peter Featherby held the possesions record when he went to Geelong for years , Hayden bunton dominated both earlier , Graham Moss Brad Hardie…. The list goes on.

Then the WA team came and all the best west Australians came home and played for the eagles, they played in a grand final within 2 years they won 2 of the next 3. So to say there was a huge gap between the two states is a fair way off the mark.

After introduction to the league, Brownlow medalists from Western Australia include Simon Black, Ben Cousins, Shane Woewodin, Nat Fyfe and Matt Priddis.

The last man to kick 1000 goals was Western Australian, Lance Franklin Josh Kennedy and Scott Cummings won Coleman medals.

So we have a fair case for having a very very strong state for producing talent, credit is deserved for these awards achieved before the vfl wafl sanfl and others came together.

It’s not so much where they originate from it’s the competition they played against. The best interstate players moved to the VFL because it was bigger and better pay. This made the comp more difficult to win as the talent pool was better.

 

[Lingsface]

It’s not so much where they originate from it’s the competition they played against. The best interstate players moved to the VFL because it was bigger and better pay. This made the comp more difficult to win as the talent pool was better.

They didn’t really though, they came for a few years and a lot of the time the VFL was missing the best players in the country for multiple years at a time.

The pay was not much at all on either end of the country at that time, and the style of football was completely different , victorians a lot slower muddier and physical wet weather football with some stray elbows, West Australian was quicker faster skilful version.

 

[PhatBoy]

I am struggling to see the comparisons in this when you are jumping from international to domestic, if what you are saying is different periods one was better than the other then I agree, but my argument of giving recognition to winners of the best player awards in these leagues should be held on a similar level to each other in the period that they where seperate competitions.

I don’t know enough about domestic level cricket in other countries to draw any sort of comparison to this subject sorry.

Pretend test and international cricket was in fact just called ‘the world cricket league.’

Teams in every cricketing nation playing against one another.

In days gone by pretend that comp didn’t exist but test cricket still did (the equivalent of state of origin or the national carnival).

Australia is the equivalent of Victoria: generally and overall the strongest, so naturally there would be lots of Australian cricketers in a hall of fame based around who achieved the most in their home nation’s competitions.

But throughout that 130 years, at various times many other nations have had really strong competitions of their own.
English county cricket, Ranji Trophy in India, Red Stripe Cup or Shell Shield in the West Indies, Currie Cup in South Africa (all the overseas counterparts of Sheffield Shield in australia).


Just because Australia has been overall the most dominant cricket nation doesn’t mean that at various times, the competitions in those other countries haven’t been just as good.

 

[Lingsface]

Pretend test and international cricket was in fact just called ‘the world cricket league.’

Teams in every cricketing nation playing against one another.

In days gone by pretend that comp didn’t exist but test cricket still did (the equivalent of state of origin or the national carnival).

Australia is the equivalent of Victoria: generally and overall the strongest, so naturally there would be lots of Australian cricketers in a hall of fame based around who achieved the most in their home nation’s competitions.

But throughout that 130 years, at various times many other nations have had really strong competitions of their own.
English county cricket, Ranji Trophy in India, Red Stripe Cup or Shell Shield in the West Indies, Currie Cup in South Africa (all the overseas counterparts of Sheffield Shield in australia).


Just because Australia has been overall the most dominant cricket nation doesn’t mean that at various times, the competitions in those other countries haven’t been just as good.

Ok thankyou, yes very valid point.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Did anyone from Geelong actually think he couldn’t play? Most fans thought he could, the staff must have agreed as they kept him on the list for a while. Was he what we needed? Evidently they didn’t think so. Good luck to him

My Geelong mates all really rated Clark, and another good mate of mine who's a spotter for the Lions thought at the time he was legitimately the steal of his draft (the same bloke said the same of Jeremy Cameron when was pre-drafted in 2010). But the Cats, like my own Tiges, probably wouldn't see as much value in a player like Clark as other teams who don't already have a bity of an abundance of really good defenders.

 

[Has No Rules]

State of Origin is being talked about more so because Eagles fans demand success and they need a reason to feel like winners.

seems that this would apply more to freo fans after 30 years of embarrassment and failure

 

[Scotland]

I think you missed this one!

But if 20dpg going at 80%de is butchering the ball a bit, I can live with that!

Clark is fine, and DE% is a nothing stat.

He does have a tendency to turn the ball over a bit by foot, but he plays with pace and is a high kick:handball player so it's not the end of the world.

Geelong's handling of him was just weird.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

seems that this would apply more to freo fans after 30 years of embarrassment and failure

You've not heard of Flagmantle obviously. We currently feel like winners and it's an odd experience.

 

[Worm4]

Let's talk Geelong.
They have beaten the lions on their own dung heap and don't have any other top 8 scalps to their credit , yet people tend to scrutinise Carlton for the exact same reasons ( in fact blues have knocked over 2 top 8 teams so far this year )
Both sitting on same points on the ladder , yet Cats are considered the much bigger threat.
I don't rate them , but they will probably make finals again based on a home ground advantage and the fact they play the bottom 2 sides twice this year. And people think Carlton have the easier draw - go figure

 

[PhatBoy]

Let's talk Geelong.
They have beaten the lions on their own dung heap and don't have any other top 8 scalps to their credit , yet people tend to scrutinise Carlton for the exact same reasons ( in fact blues have knocked over 2 top 8 teams so far this year )
Both sitting on same points on the ladder , yet Cats are considered the much bigger threat.
I don't rate them , but they will probably make finals again based on a home ground advantage and the fact they play the bottom 2 sides twice this year. And people think Carlton have the easier draw - go figure

Yeah with our 6-3 away record we will definitely need to cross our fingers that our home record will scrape us into the finals

 

[Worm4]

Yeah with our 6-3 away record we will definitely need to cross our fingers that our home record will scrape us into the finals

What is this away record you speak of ?
Cats have lost to Sydney in Sydney
Cats have beaten lowly West Coast ( 18th) and GWS ( 13th) away from Victoria.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I think North Melbourne should be forced to takeover the Gold Coast, so there's not 19 clubs when Tasmania come in.
North keeping their colours and theme song.
Let North keep the top 5 GC players, the other clubs pick the other players in a draft format.
Give Tasmania a heap of draft picks to trade for players.

 

[PhatBoy]

What is this away record you speak of ?
Cats have lost to Sydney in Sydney
Cats have beaten lowly West Coast ( 18th) and GWS ( 13th) away from Victoria.

So because we play games away from the home ground that is supposed to be what gets us into the finals, but they’re in Victoria at Docklands and the MCG, they are also considered to be played at Kardinia Park.

Right. Gotcha.

 

[Worm4]

Playing against say , essendon , north , Carlton, or even St kilda at the docklands hardly constitutes being called an away game now does it. It's a neutral venue

 

[PhatBoy]

Playing against say , essendon , north , Carlton, or even St kilda at the docklands hardly constitutes being called an away game now does it. It's a neutral venue

Having record of 6-3 away from KP is hardly making the finals because of home ground advantage is it.

Own your ridiculous comment instead of trying to pretend like you didn’t make it.

 

[megadeth86]

You could draw parallels with dozens of other sports.
Australia is historically the greatest cricket nation and if you were electing players from domestic first class competitions into a hall of fame etc, pound for pound australia would have probably the most inductees and I’m sure there would be people out there saying ‘but NZ or West Indies domestic cricket isn’t nearly as good as Shield cricket so a star in those competitions shouldn’t be afforded that recognition.’

Such an idea however would completely disregard the fact that for 15-20 years the Red Stripe Cup was the best domestic comp on the planet. The Currie Cup in SA was at a similar standard for a long time.

Being dominant overall, as Victorian football has, doesn’t mean it’s been dominant forever.

The VFL was probably a standout comp over the period but only by a small margin, the WAFL had Barry Cable ,The Krakouers ,Stephen Michael ,Polly Farmer this was just our Aboriginal talent that was missing from the VFL and when they went over they were superstars (Michael didn’t go over). Peter Featherby held the possesions record when he went to Geelong for years , Hayden bunton dominated both earlier , Graham Moss Brad Hardie…. The list goes on.

Then the WA team came and all the best west Australians came home and played for the eagles, they played in a grand final within 2 years they won 2 of the next 3. So to say there was a huge gap between the two states is a fair way off the mark.

After introduction to the league, Brownlow medalists from Western Australia include Simon Black, Ben Cousins, Shane Woewodin, Nat Fyfe and Matt Priddis.

The last man to kick 1000 goals was Western Australian, Lance Franklin Josh Kennedy and Scott Cummings won Coleman medals.

So we have a fair case for having a very very strong state for producing talent, credit is deserved for these awards achieved before the vfl wafl sanfl and others came together.

Clearing up a few errors here in an otherwise good post:

(a) WCE played in a GF in 1991 and were formed in 1987 so they did not play in a GF within two years of foundation.

(b) Not all West Australian players came back to play for WCE Rioli didn't, Wilson didn't (until later on), Mitchell didn't, etc.

 

[Lingsface]

Clearing up a few errors here in an otherwise good post:

(a) WCE played in a GF in 1991 and were formed in 1987 so they did not play in a GF within two years of foundation.

(b) Not all West Australian players came back to play for WCE Rioli didn't, Wilson didn't (until later on), Mitchell didn't, etc.

Thanks for that…