Society/Culture Horseshoe theory and populism

[FireKrakouer]

The smartest thing the fossil fuel lobby ever did was not to manipulate the world's right wing parties, which has been obvious and largely transparent. It was their insideous infiltration of the far left.

Greens parties in Australia and much of the world continue to oppose nuclear energy and fracking. Both (particularly the former) are practical and realistic ways we could have started reducing carbon emissions 20 years ago. If only...

This is not to dismiss renewables, an important field and one which I have dedicated my career to. This is but one example of many where the left and right have become useful idiots for the same masters.

"But FK, that is just one example" you may say. How about immigration? A large amount of net migration will place upwards pressure on housing prices and downwards pressure on wages. Two things that lefties oppose with passion. Much like with nuclear power, there is zero logic to opposing calls for minimal migration. So why do they do it? Because they've been programmed to believe that anyone who resists excessive immigration is a racist who is pushing white replacement theory. Again, the far right are more transparent on this issue - they oppose migration because they are racist campaigners.

One more for shits and gigs? Authoritarianism. It's trendy for lefties to drone on about fashies, and for righties to drone on about commies. In Melbourne we saw protestors demonstrate for basic civil liberties, such as the right to work or the right to visit their mother. The left were 110% on board with that message, right?

Nope. Their response?
"I heard that Avi Yemeni turned up to this protest at some point, so these people were fashies".
You heard it, folks. Disagreeing with the implementation of the world's longest consecutive stay-at-home order is fascism!

In the US, Occupy Wallstreet and the original Tea Party group both popped up about the same time, and wanted eerily similar things to be addressed. Once the call to assemble sounded, both were overwhelmed and hijacked by the worst extremists either ideology could produce, and that was that. It was fascinating to watch unfold.

So how do we get the left and right to unite against those who are truly ripping us all off? The cream is being skimmed off the top by the 0.01%. I'm not talking about "the joos" or any particular ethnic / religious / whatever demographic, that pointless hatred is but another distraction.

Note: I'm going harder on the left here for a couple of reasons: as stated, the evil from the right is simply more obvious and transparent, we are all aware of it already. Furthermore, the far right posters of SRP have all been banned, whilst the far left have been installed as mods... I know how to read the room m8.

*Inb4 replies that totally miss the point, or find some pointless semantics to rail against, or respond with a low IQ twitter meme.

 

[Gethelred]

While very interesting - even if some of it's a tad facile, some of it's outright incorrect, and some of it's pre-emptively strawmanning a counterargument - the OP manages to use an awful lot of words without really getting to a point, or treating said point as if it was so obvious as to be redundant even stating it.

Do you have a point, FireKrakouer? Can you say the bit you're actually hinting towards out loud?

I will say, this trend of internet behaviour that sees everyone penning posts as if they were ******* Q on 4chan, unveiling hints of some grand conspiracy as though a magician on stage is irritating as *. Say what you mean. Communicate. Let your audience decide if you're brilliant or a fool; don't piss them off by prevaricating.

 

[FireKrakouer]

While very interesting - even if some of it's a tad facile, some of it's outright incorrect, and some of it's pre-emptively strawmanning a counterargument - the OP manages to use an awful lot of words without really getting to a point, or treating said point as if it was so obvious as to be redundant even stating it.

Do you have a point, FireKrakouer? Can you say the bit you're actually hinting towards out loud?

I will say, this trend of internet behaviour that sees everyone penning posts as if they were ******* Q on 4chan, unveiling hints of some grand conspiracy as though a magician on stage is irritating as *. Say what you mean. Communicate. Let your audience decide if you're brilliant or a fool; don't piss them off by prevaricating.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a stream-of-conscious FK rant, and he'll never go hungry (for wisdom) again.

My examples show how I believe billionaires and lobbyists have played both sides of various issues off against each other. My question is how do we unite society on some of the basic issues? Instead of spending our activist energy debating culture war bs on twitter and having the online world increasingly become about red team vs blue team. Instead of having one half of the working class blaming the other half for everything that is wrong, never looking upwards.

 

[Gethelred]

"Say what you mean. Communicate. Let your audience decide if you're brilliant or a fool; don't piss them off by prevaricating."

Tell me, Gethelred. Do you think that's still possible?
The old practice of book burning is alive and well - it's just evolved.

You could take my post at face value. A request for clear language is not a trap waiting to close.

My examples show how I believe billionaires and lobbyists have played both sides of various issues off against each other. My question is how do we unite society on some of the basic issues? Instead of spending our activist energy debating culture war bs on twitter and having the online world increasingly become about red team vs blue team. Instead of having one half of the working class blaming the other half for everything that is wrong, never looking upwards.

... so, you chose to shoehorn the Horseshoe theory into a marxist critique about the power of the upper class over the working classes?

Forgive me, but that seems to be an awfully long bow to draw.

It seems to be the solution is to treat the culture war stuff as a smokescreen and everyone should just ally with the party/group that opposes power being held by the few over the many (just to be clear, that isn't the Republicans there or the Liberal/Nats here) but let's be frank here. What specifically and generally are you referring to by 'culture war'? One person's culture war is trans issues, another's BLM, another's CRT; are all culture wars created equal?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

You could take my post at face value. A request for clear language is not a trap waiting to close.


... so, you chose to shoehorn the Horseshoe theory into a marxist critique about the power of the upper class over the working classes?

Forgive me, but that seems to be an awfully long bow to draw.

It seems to be the solution is to treat the culture war stuff as a smokescreen and everyone should just ally with the party/group that opposes power being held by the few over the many (just to be clear, that isn't the Republicans there or the Liberal/Nats here) but let's be frank here. What specifically and generally are you referring to by 'culture war'? One person's culture war is trans issues, another's BLM, another's CRT; are all culture wars created equal?

Maggie5 you asked about why people go on about 'culture wars', here's your lady to ask about it.

 

[Gethelred]

Maggie5 you asked about why people go on about 'culture wars', here's your lady to ask about it.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie5 you asked about why people go on about 'culture wars', here's your lady to ask about it.

Sorry EM, there are threads that I choose to post in, don't like being tagged.

 

[Osho]

The smartest thing the fossil fuel lobby ever did was not to manipulate the world's right wing parties, which has been obvious and largely transparent. It was their insideous infiltration of the far left.

Greens parties in Australia and much of the world continue to oppose nuclear energy and fracking. Both (particularly the former) are practical and realistic ways we could have started reducing carbon emissions 20 years ago. If only...

This is not to dismiss renewables, an important field and one which I have dedicated my career to. This is but one example of many where the left and right have become useful idiots for the same masters.

"But FK, that is just one example" you may say. How about immigration? A large amount of net migration will place upwards pressure on housing prices and downwards pressure on wages. Two things that lefties oppose with passion. Much like with nuclear power, there is zero logic to opposing calls for minimal migration. So why do they do it? Because they've been programmed to believe that anyone who resists excessive immigration is a racist who is pushing white replacement theory. Again, the far right are more transparent on this issue - they oppose migration because they are racist campaigners.

One more for shits and gigs? Authoritarianism. It's trendy for lefties to drone on about fashies, and for righties to drone on about commies. In Melbourne we saw protestors demonstrate for basic civil liberties, such as the right to work or the right to visit their mother. The left were 110% on board with that message, right?

Nope. Their response?
"I heard that Avi Yemeni turned up to this protest at some point, so these people were fashies".
You heard it, folks. Disagreeing with the implementation of the world's longest consecutive stay-at-home order is fascism!

In the US, Occupy Wallstreet and the original Tea Party group both popped up about the same time, and wanted eerily similar things to be addressed. Once the call to assemble sounded, both were overwhelmed and hijacked by the worst extremists either ideology could produce, and that was that. It was fascinating to watch unfold.

So how do we get the left and right to unite against those who are truly ripping us all off? The cream is being skimmed off the top by the 0.01%. I'm not talking about "the joos" or any particular ethnic / religious / whatever demographic, that pointless hatred is but another distraction.

Note: I'm going harder on the left here for a couple of reasons: as stated, the evil from the right is simply more obvious and transparent, we are all aware of it already. Furthermore, the far right posters of SRP have all been banned, whilst the far left have been installed as mods... I know how to read the room m8.

*Inb4 replies that totally miss the point, or find some pointless semantics to rail against, or respond with a low IQ twitter meme.

That was interesting. I guess you are saying society is being divided and ruled by certain perpetrators? It is tough both watching and playing the game. By playing it one misses the broader forces, and their own motives, desires which by virtue of playing the game are often already decided, forced. How many game players have a damascus shift in world view? It's possible, but harder. Watching the game rather than being entwined, on the other hand, gives a different view which is where you are trying to come from, no?

Anyway, here is a take on recent cultural history and proposed reasons for the current depth of divisions. OWS and the TP movement are both highlighted on the road to now.



If you prefer reading, this may be interrsting.

Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid

It’s not just a phase.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Seeds]

The smartest thing the fossil fuel lobby ever did was not to manipulate the world's right wing parties, which has been obvious and largely transparent. It was their insideous infiltration of the far left.

Greens parties in Australia and much of the world continue to oppose nuclear energy and fracking. Both (particularly the former) are practical and realistic ways we could have started reducing carbon emissions 20 years ago. If only...

This is not to dismiss renewables, an important field and one which I have dedicated my career to. This is but one example of many where the left and right have become useful idiots for the same masters.

"But FK, that is just one example" you may say. How about immigration? A large amount of net migration will place upwards pressure on housing prices and downwards pressure on wages. Two things that lefties oppose with passion. Much like with nuclear power, there is zero logic to opposing calls for minimal migration. So why do they do it? Because they've been programmed to believe that anyone who resists excessive immigration is a racist who is pushing white replacement theory. Again, the far right are more transparent on this issue - they oppose migration because they are racist campaigners.

One more for shits and gigs? Authoritarianism. It's trendy for lefties to drone on about fashies, and for righties to drone on about commies. In Melbourne we saw protestors demonstrate for basic civil liberties, such as the right to work or the right to visit their mother. The left were 110% on board with that message, right?

Nope. Their response?
"I heard that Avi Yemeni turned up to this protest at some point, so these people were fashies".
You heard it, folks. Disagreeing with the implementation of the world's longest consecutive stay-at-home order is fascism!

In the US, Occupy Wallstreet and the original Tea Party group both popped up about the same time, and wanted eerily similar things to be addressed. Once the call to assemble sounded, both were overwhelmed and hijacked by the worst extremists either ideology could produce, and that was that. It was fascinating to watch unfold.

So how do we get the left and right to unite against those who are truly ripping us all off? The cream is being skimmed off the top by the 0.01%. I'm not talking about "the joos" or any particular ethnic / religious / whatever demographic, that pointless hatred is but another distraction.

Note: I'm going harder on the left here for a couple of reasons: as stated, the evil from the right is simply more obvious and transparent, we are all aware of it already. Furthermore, the far right posters of SRP have all been banned, whilst the far left have been installed as mods... I know how to read the room m8.

*Inb4 replies that totally miss the point, or find some pointless semantics to rail against, or respond with a low IQ twitter meme.

Nuclear power is not worth the risks. Happy to pay for more expensive power in the evenings so i dont have to worry about that risk.

 

[Mofra]

Nuclear power is not worth the risks. Happy to pay for more expensive power in the evenings so i dont have to worry about that risk.

It's less about risk, and more about the incredible lead times to build new plants (in the order of 25 years).

Should we have looked at nuclear energy decades ago? Yes.

Has the horse bolted? It seems now, yes

 

[the_interloper]

It's less about risk, and more about the incredible lead times to build new plants (in the order of 25 years).

Should we have looked at nuclear energy decades ago? Yes.

Has the horse bolted? It seems now, yes

Is that how long it is? I knew they were very expensive, didn't know they took that long though. With PM terms of 3-4 years, not surprised this never happened here.

 

[ferball]

What moron thinks fracking is a good idea? Even without the environmental nightmare that comes with it its a completely moronic thing to do. Even more moronic is governments giving tax breaks or any sort of funding, we're broke enough as it is.

 

[Blue1980]

With horseshoe theory, does this mean FK will come around to being an ultra-leftist militant who criticises the rest of us?

 

[Mofra]

With horseshoe theory, does this mean FK will come around to being an ultra-leftist militant who criticises the rest of us?

I do think that there is some credence to the theory in terms of being anti-science. The far right and far left have anti vaxxers in their ranks for example.

 

[Blue1980]

I do think that there is some credence to the theory in terms of being anti-science. The far right and far left have anti vaxxers in their ranks for example.

Of course, or people who just like being contrary, or just stupid people.

 

[Gralin]

I do think that there is some credence to the theory in terms of being anti-science. The far right and far left have anti vaxxers in their ranks for example.

the antivaxx/wellness pipeline to fascist is pretty strong though

horse shoe theory is a crock of s**t as far as western politics goes