Collingwood and Richmond - who has the greater supporter base

[Zevon]

Just a reminder: Terms like “Minnowmond”, “Shrinkingwood”, “Dwindlewood” and the like belong on the bay, not the main board. Same goes for referring to either team as a minnow, when clearly neither fits that description.

If you see stuff like this, don’t respond with more of it. Click ‘report’ so we can deal with it.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

If you include all social media formats the top 4 are;

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Hawthorn
5. West coast
6. Carlton
7. Adelaide
8. Sydney

Collingwood is the biggest, 2nd is Essendon and Richmond are 3rd

Carlton will go past the Hawks and the Eagles very quickly if they properly get their shyte together onfield. 100k members waiting in the wings for sure.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I was at that game. It wasn't pouring rain - I actually walked to GB straight afterwards for a gig and didn't even get (what's left of ) my hair wet.

But if you want to accuse the Pies supporters of being fair weather supporters, knock yourself out. I personally don't think they're any more fair weather than any other club.

With your hair on the decline are you sure you are the GhostofJimJess or are you the great man himself?

 

[GhostofJimJess]

With your hair on the decline are you sure you are the GhostofJimJess or are you the great man himself?

Haha, not quite SoY, just a cheap imitation mate.

 

[PieLebo87]

Perhaps read my post again.
I am saying that the supporter base is those who nominally support a certain team, including passive supporters. Memberships and crowds increase when those people start to actively support their team. For example in 2017, Richmond scarves started appearing on people who I never knew had a team. Parents at school, etc who said ‘my dad followed Richmond’. Hey presto next season the kids are wearing Richmond jumpers and they are buying memberships. Now they are actively involved compared to possible being embarrassed to be a Tiger fan the previous 10 - 20 years. The Tiger fans who remained involved in the 90s and early 2000s are diehard. The 40k who joined in 2017 - 19 are obviously not. Those 40k may well become diehards, but some will jump off the bandwagon when the premiership window closes.
North Melbourne would have the most diehard supporter base. But it is small and there are not enough passive fans to jump on the bandwagon. Even if they won 3/4 flags, they still could not get to 80k. Same with Bulldogs. Already maxed out, only a small bump even after 2016.
I work in a job where I meet a lot of people, all over Melbourne. I have also been involved in junior footy and Auskick across Melbourne. Combining this, with other metrics mentioned, and giving a score out of 100 using the biggest supporter base as 100, this is my list
Collingwood 100
Essendon 95
Carlton 90
Richmond 85
Hawks 70
Cats 60 (adding in Geelong)
Dees 55
Saints 55
North 40
Dogs 38
If you went back 50 years this list would be the same, except for swapping Dees and Hawks. It takes 50 years of rediculous success, for extreme failure to change the underlying support base significantly. People in Melbourne simply don’t change teams easily, and most immigration the since the 1980s has been from China and India with very little interest in footy so this is why the number don’t change much.

I see what you’re saying.

I’m not going to get involved in this debate, but I will only share what I’ve seen and experienced.

In my workplace, our group of managers are from all walks of life, ethnics and caucasians, gay and straight, young and old, inner class and outer suburb folk etc. The group is composed of 5 Collingwood supporters, 1 Essendon, 1 Richmond, 1 Carlton and a couple of others who just don’t follow sports. The regional manager, the Essendon supporter, joked that with the vacancy he is filling, he’ll be asking which footy team the person follows because he doesn’t want anymore Collingwood supporters.

The market I worked at prior to this one composed of 4-5 Collingwood supporters, 2 Carlton, 2 Geelong and single digit other teams.

All walks of life, everywhere I look, I don’t struggle to meet a Collingwood supporter. There’s a lot of them out there.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Richmond played there first preliminary final since 1982 at the mcg and the weather was dry and sunny

Collingwood played gws in pouring rain all day yet drew almost 78,000!

Richmond play in pouring rain against one of the big clubs in Carlton and drew 50,000

Collingwood have drawn 9.2 million more fans during the home and away season dating back to 1921 while Richmond had a 35 year advantage of playing at the mcg.

Collingwood have drawn over 1.2 million people through the gates on 6 occasions with the last one in 2019 in Richmond’s premiership year.

Richmond have never done this even during there 3 premierships.

Case closed

Once again, cutthroat final at home, opposing team has zero fans

That is the only pure test case that exists.

Don’t tell me a team that won 2 premierships in 70 years is somehow so over gorged with success that they couldn’t be bothered going to cutthroat finals.

And weather? Just bloody lol.

The results were clear, the case is closed.

It’s not to say that pies are a small club at all, they are only 10% smaller than Richmond, move on.

 

[Chinacats]

Manchester United

 

[PieLebo87]

Manchester United

GGMU

 

[gopies1981]

Once again, cutthroat final at home, opposing team has zero fans

That is the only pure test case that exists.

Don’t tell me a team that won 2 premierships in 70 years is somehow so over gorged with success that they couldn’t be bothered going to cutthroat finals.

And weather? Just bloody lol.

The results were clear, the case is closed.

It’s not to say that pies are a small club at all, they are only 10% smaller than Richmond, move on.

Look at attendance. Richmond are the smaller club. Move on now

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Look at attendance. Richmond are the smaller club. Move on now

there is no unadulterated way to prove that except by looking at cutthroat finals against GWS. (not GFs where corporates take over)

A purer test of engaged fans does not exist, and will never exist again probably, as the Tassy team coming in will have a bunch of fans instantly.

 

[gopies1981]

there is no unadulterated way to prove that except by looking at cutthroat finals against GWS. (not GFs where corporates take over)

A purer test of engaged fans does not exist, and will never exist again probably, as the Tassy team coming in will have a bunch of fans instantly.

Look at the weather for both finals and you can see why Collingwood had a smaller crowd. According to Richmond supporters that if they don’t turn up in huge numbers it’s always because of rain or trains not running or poor time slots. If this is the case and with pouring rain all day there is no chance in hell that Richmond would of got over 78,000 v gws.

Also in 2018 semi final v gws it was pouring all afternoon until about 1 hour prior to the match but when that game started in was only 4 degrees and got Down to as low as 2. Easily the most coldest football match I have been too and they still drew over 72,000 fans. Again doubt with such freezing cold and raining weather Richmond would of struggle to get over 70,000. Again Richmond fans are the ones making excuses of why they have poor crowds particularly this year and In 2019 when Richmond were behind Collingwood in attendance’s is because of bad weather and poor
time slots.

I don’t care about if it’s a Thursday night or not but I am extremely confident that Collingwood would of easily drawn a bigger attendance figure the last two Thursday nights

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Look at the weather for both finals and you can see why Collingwood had a smaller crowd. According to Richmond supporters that if they don’t turn up in huge numbers it’s always because of rain or trains not running or poor time slots. If this is the case and with pouring rain all day there is no chance in hell that Richmond would of got over 78,000 v gws.

Also in 2018 semi final v gws it was pouring all afternoon until about 1 hour prior to the match but when that game started in was only 4 degrees and got Down to as low as 2. Easily the most coldest football match I have been too and they still drew over 72,000 fans. Again doubt with such freezing cold and raining weather Richmond would of struggle to get over 70,000. Again Richmond fans are the ones making excuses of why they have poor crowds particularly this year and In 2019 when Richmond were behind Collingwood in attendance’s is because of bad weather and poor
time slots.

I don’t care about if it’s a Thursday night or not but I am extremely confident that Collingwood would of easily drawn a bigger attendance figure the last two Thursday nights

fixturing taints season-long comparisons, and as say the vagaries of the weather and the like can distort the comparison becasue there is limited motivation to be at cold, wet H&A games.

Knock-out finals against GWS combine infinite motivation (noone gives a hoot about weather in cutthroat final), with infinite opportunity to fill the stands with only your own fans (even Richmond can't max-out to 100,000 at the MCG vs GWS)

This is the only and best test, and the Tigers beat the Pies narrowly (10%) on that measure.

The only pity is there is no 100k stadium in Perth to test Richmond vs WCE for the outright claim to 'biggest club in the land'

I believe WCE could get 90k+ to a Perth stadium vs GWS in an elimination final, pretty similar to the Tigers and just ahead of the Pies

 

[DopeMaster]

Kind of hilarious with all the facts, figures, records, stats being presented in this thread, and Tiges fans trying to assure everyone the only valid metric is a final against GWS.

Talk about straw clutching…

 

[deck]

Kind of hilarious with all the facts, figures, records, stats being presented in this thread, and Tiges fans trying to assure everyone the only valid metric is a final against GWS.

Talk about straw clutching…

It proves how fair-weather their fans are.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I,ve never seen GWS live, I don't even believe they exist.

 

[gopies1981]

fixturing taints season-long comparisons, and as say the vagaries of the weather and the like can distort the comparison becasue there is limited motivation to be at cold, wet H&A games.

Knock-out finals against GWS combine infinite motivation (noone gives a hoot about weather in cutthroat final), with infinite opportunity to fill the stands with only your own fans (even Richmond can't max-out to 100,000 at the MCG vs GWS)

This is the only and best test, and the Tigers beat the Pies narrowly (10%) on that measure.

The only pity is there is no 100k stadium in Perth to test Richmond vs WCE for the outright claim to 'biggest club in the land'

I believe WCE could get 90k+ to a Perth stadium vs GWS in an elimination final, pretty similar to the Tigers and just ahead of the Pies

Collingwood break all time attendance records and are 9.2 million in front of Richmond in total home and away attendance’s since 1921 and yet you still think Richmond are bigger whilst drawing less crowds then Collingwood this year and the last year prior to covid restrictions in 2019 lol

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Collingwood break all time attendance records and are 9.2 million in front of Richmond in total home and away attendance’s since 1921 and yet you still think Richmond are bigger whilst drawing less crowds then Collingwood this year and the last year prior to covid restrictions in 2019 lol

Where were all these Richmond fans during the Tony Free days

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Kind of hilarious with all the facts, figures, records, stats being presented in this thread, and Tiges fans trying to assure everyone the only valid metric is a final against GWS.

Talk about straw clutching…

happy for you to come up with a purer metric

I haven't found one, anything based on season averages is totally FIXtured!

 

[Corn Cobbers]

It proves how fair-weather their fans are.

That's why they wear Richmond caps to the footy, so they can put them on and take them off easily

Can't believe this thread is still going, no one is bigger than the Pies

 

[gopies1981]

That's why they wear Richmond caps to the footy, so they can put them on and take them off easily

Can't believe this thread is still going, no one is bigger than the Pies

Only west coast is bigger I’d say. But in terms of Victorian clubs Collingwood is the biggest. 2nd is Essendon then it’s Richmond with Carlton 4th

 

[deck]

happy for you to come up with a purer metric

I haven't found one, anything based on season averages is totally FIXtured!

You mean like playing more games in a venue that holds more people so you have a advantage of having more people able to attend.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

You mean like playing more games in a venue that holds more people so you have a advantage of having more people able to attend.

exactly, no clubs except Pies/Dons allowed to play on Anzac day at the MCG for example, weather vagaries etc.

I think Pies fans should be prosecuting the argument that their club is the 'box office' club of Australia. They play the most blockbusters, I think there is no doubt about that.

What they clearly are not, is the biggest/most supported, that is Richmond (and possibly WCE).

 

[deck]

exactly, no clubs except Pies/Dons allowed to play on Anzac day at the MCG for example, weather vagaries etc.

I think Pies fans should be prosecuting the argument that their club is the 'box office' club of Australia. They play the most blockbusters, I think there is no doubt about that.

What they clearly are not, is the biggest/most supported, that is Richmond (and possibly WCE).

Like playing home games in a 100,000 seat stadium for years while other clubs played home games in small suburban grounds made up of mainly open air standing room.

 

[gopies1981]

Like playing home games in a 100,000 seat stadium for years while other clubs played home games in small suburban grounds made up of mainly open air standing room.

Richmond had a 35 year advantage of playing at the mcg yet are 9.2 million behind Collingwood in total home and away attendance’s.

Let’s look at this year against the same opponents at the mcg;

Collingwood v Essendon 84,000
Richmond v Essendon 70,000

Collingwood v Carlton 80,000
Richmond v Carlton 72,000 and 50,000 lol

Collingwood v Melbourne 76,000
Richmond v Melbourne 70,000

Collingwood clearly the bigger club

 

[gopies1981]

Total 2022 home and away attendances after 13 game;

Collingwood 645935
Richmond 598620

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Where were all these Richmond fans during the Tony Free days

They were at Princess Park mate !!!

1000% Indisputable fact - in the mid to late 90s - around that time frame Richmond played some of their home games at Princess Park not the MCG

I will give you an actual example - around 96-98 - i cant be bothered looking it up - and it was the final game of the year - it was a Richmond home game - and it was against Geelong ( and they had to win it to make the finals - and they lost thus didnt make the 8 ) .

Now why was a Richmond home game at Princess Park - because the Tigers back then didnt have many supporters

Richmond have had a great run recently and good luck to them - but they have had a hell of alot of supporters come out of the woodwork

From a neutral perspective - Collingwood - The Magpies - and i dont care if they were 0-21 coming into the final round -a home game and they were playing Geelong at any point during their history - there is no chance in hell the game would be played at Princess Park

End of Debate - Thankyou Linesman - Thankyou Ball boys - Game Set and Match to The Magpies