The Greens

[Demonic Ascent]

The views were in the paper she co authored
The language used and arguments put forth in that paper included work from an anti trans group in the UK

If you don't know what TERF means you don't know enough about this topic to make the judgment that its all good

Well I disagree. I know what TERF means now, that's the beauty of it. People can gather more information, educate themselves and evolve their ideas.

Her views are transphobic, they are that trans people should be discriminated against

In what way? I have seen no evidence she is calling for discrimination against transgender people; in fact it is the opposite.

She doesn't believe in self ID

She suggests that trans women are actually sex predators trying to gain access to womens spaces to rape them

Thats not just a bit silly

Yeah, that's not true.

And here we are you don't believe trans people actually transition which is why you don't see anything wrong with what she says

Well, yeah that's the whole point isn't it? People are free to do what they want but it doesn't mean everyone has to go along with it. As an extreme example, if I were a younger man and hooked up with someone who said they were a woman but who I subsequently found out used to be a man I doubt that relationship would last.

What are you even on about

Pretty self explanatory.

Biological sex is what to you exactly?
How is it defined? What makes up someone's biological sex?

Well without getting into the technicalities of it, generally someone born with male sexual organs who has the XY chromosome, male hormone levels (eg testosterone) etc would be considered a male. Someone born with female sexual organs who has the XX chromosome, female hormone levels (eg estrogen) etc would be considered a female.

Yeah and you don't believe people really transition and you don't really know whats going on
But you think you know more than everyone who has a problem with her statements

I never said I think I know more. I said I don't believe what she said is transphobic. It's a militant position in what is a complex issue. I believe in protecting the rights of everyone who is living their life without harming others. I don't think what she has said is discriminatory and overturning a democratic election on the basis of disagreeing with her politics is extremely problematic. I take what Johnny Bananas said in regards to the improper process which is fine if that is the case but if it wasn't for her election I doubt issues with improper process would have been raised and I don't see why she should be discouraged from running in the re-election.

 

[Lethality]

The fact there are trans and intersex people proves that biological sex is not binary.

In what way is a trans person's biological sex not binary?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

In what way is a trans person's biological sex not binary?

 

[Gralin]

In what way is a trans person's biological sex not binary?

Dude biological sex is biology and biological sex in humans is not Binary as there are more than two possibilities

 

[Gralin]

Well I disagree. I know what TERF means now, that's the beauty of it. People can gather more information, educate themselves and evolve their ideas.



In what way? I have seen no evidence she is calling for discrimination against transgender people; in fact it is the opposite.



Yeah, that's not true.




Well, yeah that's the whole point isn't it? People are free to do what they want but it doesn't mean everyone has to go along with it. As an extreme example, if I were a younger man and hooked up with someone who said they were a woman but who I subsequently found out used to be a man I doubt that relationship would last.




Pretty self explanatory.



Well without getting into the technicalities of it, generally someone born with male sexual organs who has the XY chromosome, male hormone levels (eg testosterone) etc would be considered a male. Someone born with female sexual organs who has the XX chromosome, female hormone levels (eg estrogen) etc would be considered a female.



I never said I think I know more. I said I don't believe what she said is transphobic. It's a militant position in what is a complex issue. I believe in protecting the rights of everyone who is living their life without harming others. I don't think what she has said is discriminatory and overturning a democratic election on the basis of disagreeing with her politics is extremely problematic. I take what Johnny Bananas said in regards to the improper process which is fine if that is the case but if it wasn't for her election I doubt issues with improper process would have been raised and I don't see why she should be discouraged from running in the re-election.

Well I don't know what you've been reading but it is good to see you're still running with the if I dated a trans woman line from years ago
Are you going to bring up drug use and mental health issues again?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeah... about that... the role was filled as a casual vacancy, which doesn't have the same restrictions as a full annual vote. The panel are making stuff up as they go along when it suits them.

Have you read the AGV constitution to know what the rules are around elections to fill a casual vacancy and the differences between those and a regular party position election?

Corporate Governance 101 is that any panel that reviews a decision like this should be independent.

You haven't proved that they're not.

Its gotta give you confidence that the processes was thorough, fair and democratic when they say "yeah, you're out, and we recommend you don't run again".

Except "they" are two different entities here. The Administrative Review Panel annulled the election. Samantha Ratnam, who is not on the ARP, is who recommended Gale not run again. You're conflating them to make a point.

 

[Lethality]

Dude biological sex is biology and biological sex in humans is not Binary as there are more than two possibilities

Some aspects of biology are more black and white than others,.

I was asking how this manifests in a trans person such that their biological sex is not fixed. I know gender is up for grabs, but biological sex as far as I know is what it is.

 

[Saint]

I don't know why this discussion is being had in the Greens thread. The Greens have one position and discussing any other possible position has been declared by them to be transphobic.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

In what way is a trans person's biological sex not binary?

Did you miss the part where I mentioned intersex?

 

[Gralin]

Some aspects of biology are more black and white than others,.

I was asking how this manifests in a trans person such that their biological sex is not fixed. I know gender is up for grabs, but biological sex as far as I know is what it is.

You should do some research or talk about that stuff in the relevant thread

 

[Lethality]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned intersex?

The existence of intersex people mean a trans person's biological sex is not determined?

 

[Lethality]

You should do some research or talk about that stuff in the relevant thread

You threadbanned me for having a discussion with a trans person. That individual continued their discussion with me in private and said he had no objection with my language.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The existence of intersex people mean a trans person's biological sex is not determined?

What if intersex is one end of the spectrum, cisgender is the other end. Trans fits somewhere in between.

Or male at one end, female at the other. Intersex and trans are somewhere in between.

 

[Lethality]

What if intersex is one end of the spectrum, cisgender is the other end. Trans fits somewhere in between.

Or male at one end, female at the other. Intersex and trans are somewhere in between.

I've pondered that myself but what's the evidence for this from a biological pov such that biological sex would be as transferable as gender?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I've pondered that myself but what's the evidence for this from a biological pov such that biological sex would be as transferable as gender?

The human brain is the master organ in sexual function. Where else does POV come from, if not the brain?

The brain is biological, yeah?

 

[Evolved1]

I don't know why this discussion is being had in the Greens thread. The Greens have one position and discussing any other possible position has been declared by them to be transphobic.

Their definition seems pretty wide reaching, and would probably cover the majority of Australians. Do they view FINA as a transphobic organisation?

 

[Lethality]

The human brain is the master organ in sexual function. Where else does POV come from, if not the brain?

The brain is biological, yeah?

This is the kind of speculation I could come up with myself. Pondering about something as mysterious as the brain and POV which is itself an abstraction or even an illusion, is not the hard evidence I was looking for to why bio sex isn't more fixed than gender identity.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This is the kind of speculation I could come up with myself. Pondering about something as mysterious as the brain and POV which is itself an abstraction or even an illusion, is not the hard evidence I was looking for.

I've never seen you come up with speculation anything like this before though, it's mostly just Tuckerisms.

 

[Lethality]

I've never seen you come up with anything like this before though, it's mostly just Tuckerisms.

I don't even know what that means, but I assume it signifies the end of the road as far as your take on this subject. That your opinion is really made up of your intuition on what the brain is?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I don't even know what that means, but I assume it signifies the end of the road as far as your take on this subject. That your opinion is really made up of your intuition on what the brain is?

There's actually a fair bit of research behind it. Google is your friend human brain is a sex organ - Google Search

 

[Lethality]

There's actually a fair bit of research behind it. Google is your friend human brain is a sex organ - Google Search

I'm aware that it's a primary sex organ. But it's a fair leap between that and some of the conclusions you have jumped to here. Again not saying the answers are wrong, but you have posted assumptions. If that is really the entire thought process, it's disturbing.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I'm aware that it's a primary sex organ. But it's a fair leap between that and some of the conclusions you have jumped to here. Again not saying the answers are wrong, but you have posted assumptions. If that is really the entire thought process, it's disturbing.

Psychology is biology, it's all connected. Your brain obviously works differently, and that's the point. We are all different.

If you feel disturbed, that's most likely a reflection of you. Maybe read more magazines or something?

 

[Lethality]

Psychology is biology, it's all connected.

Oh boy.

In all fairness I'm sure there is more rigor to the argument than this. I suppose I will have to do my research. Nevertheless it should be concerning that people have such strong beliefs about human biology based on virtually nothing. That goes for the transphobes as well of course.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Oh boy.

In all fairness I'm sure there is more rigor to the argument than this. I suppose I will have to do my research. Nevertheless it should be concerning that people have such strong beliefs about human biology based on virtually nothing. That goes for the transphobes as well of course.

It's not based on nothing. I've even given you a google search that contains plenty of research.

Here's another that relates directly to your 'oh boy' moment. psychology is biology - Google Search

fmd you admit you have done no research, yet claim my posts are based on virtually nothing? Grow up dude.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Well I don't know what you've been reading but it is good to see you're still running with the if I dated a trans woman line from years ago
Are you going to bring up drug use and mental health issues again?

Do you consider this statement transphobic;

"I am a man and I would not want to date a women who used to be a man"?