Moved Thread Who was/is the better player. Gary Ablett jnr or Dustin Martin?

Who's the better player Gary jnr or Dusty?


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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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GAZ did have finals success??

He stood up in big finals from 07-10 and was enormous for the Cats, instrumental in them winning 2 flags.

If Cats kick straight in 08 he wins the norm, as was clear best for Geelong (arguably better than Hodge anyway.)

GAZ was better for longer, and GAZ played just as many big finals as Dusty. If 22 touches and 2 goals is some high water mark, GAZ did that in his poor finals.

Idk about that, GAS and Judd won in a losing team. It’s all ifs and buts anyway, he didn’t and that’s it. Dusty was more instrumental in Richmond’s finals. Cats even won in 2011 without GAJ.
 
May 5, 2016
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Yeah they all played great but Martin's games were a higher standard on a different level imo.


2019 wasn’t.

His second half against us was a level rarely seen in finals, and I think his poise was at a level in the second half against Adelaide that probably no other player onthe field that day could have managed but I can name you a player straight out who had two grand finals - back to back mind you - that featured patches of footy that were just as good:


Darren Jarman.

Adelaide trails by 14 points at half time in 97. Jarman finishes with 19 touches and 6 goals and they win by 30.

They trail by 24 at half time a year later. He finishes with 15 and 5 and they cruise home against North Melbourne and Wayne Carey no less.

Was he robbed of Norm Smith medals? Well I was only 13-14 watching those games but I equally remember how incredible Andrew McLeod was and he fully deserved it both years. That wasn’t Jarman’s fault though: he produced not just one but two grand finals that were easily better than many Norm Smith winning efforts.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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Brownlow 2, coaches award 3. Therefore it is closer to 3 than 7. GAJ playing at Gold Coast inflated his MVP record by default.
After 3 consecutive coaches awards, dual BnFs in premiership years, and a Brownlow at Geelong, Gaz then still had 4 top 5 finishes in coaches award when at Gold Coast, whilst also winning BnF, media awards and players awards.

The coaches tend to favour the winning team, so by leaving Geelong for a battler it actually probably cost GAZ more league accolades.

Gaz was still the clear standout, him losing coaches award by 1 vote in 2013 but claiming brownlow, Suns BnF, most media awards and players MVP....how is that not a dominant year??
 

Falcon3518

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After 3 consecutive coaches awards, dual BnFs in premiership years, and a Brownlow at Geelong, Gaz then still had 4 top 5 finishes in coaches award when at Gold Coast, whilst also winning BnF, media awards and players awards.

The coaches tend to favour the winning team, so by leaving Geelong for a battler it actually probably cost GAZ more league accolades.

Gaz was still the clear standout, him losing coaches award by 1 vote in 2013 but claiming brownlow, Suns BnF, most media awards and players MVP....how is that not a dominant year??

You do realise Dusty finished 3rd in 2016, 6th in 2018 and 2019, 5th in 2020. He is 9th all time Brownlow medal votes and you seem to not rate his H&A record at all.
 
May 5, 2016
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You do realise Dusty finished 3rd in 2016, 6th in 2018 and 2019, 5th in 2020. He is 9th all time Brownlow medal votes and you seem to not rate his H&A record at all.


How is that different to you disregarding Ablett as a finals player even though everyone who watched him, and the numbers, pretty clearly prove that he was an exceptional finals player
 

Falcon3518

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How is that different to you disregarding Ablett as a finals player even though everyone who watched him, and the numbers, pretty clearly prove that he was an exceptional finals player

The gap between the finals performances is bigger than the gap in H&A performances imo.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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You do realise Dusty finished 3rd in 2016, 6th in 2018 and 2019, 5th in 2020. He is 9th all time Brownlow medal votes and you seem to not rate his H&A record at all.
ImHO brownlow one of the poorer judges of performance, much rather go with coaches association and club BnFs.

And anyway, stupid to use brownlow votes as Gaz Jnr all time leader who is streets ahead of Dusty.

Dusty could only manage 6th in club BnF in 2019 and wasnt top10 in league coaches award....is 2019 supposed to be a good Dusty season?

Pretty clear he is a level below GAZ Jnr

Perhaps should have a new thread Cotch v Dusty.
 
May 5, 2016
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The gap between the finals performances is bigger than the gap in H&A performances imo.


It really isn’t.
His averages across those 4 seasons of finals he played as a midfielder at his peak (that’s not to disregard his other finals but he was a small forward at the start of his career and he was in to his mid 30s when he played finals again in 2018 when he returned) are as good as anything he managed in home and away football.

30.7 touches, 13 contested possessions, a goal, a goal assist, 7 inside 50s, 4 tackles, 7 clearances
 

Falcon3518

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ImHO brownlow one of the poorer judges of performance, much rather go with coaches association and club BnFs.

And anyway, stupid to use brownlow votes as Gaz Jnr all time leader who is streets ahead of Dusty.

Dusty could only manage 6th in club BnF in 2019 and wasnt top10 in league coaches award....is 2019 supposed to be a good Dusty season?

Pretty clear he is a level below GAZ Jnr

Perhaps should have a new thread Cotch v Dusty.

I brought up Brownlow finishes because you did ya nong.
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
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It really isn’t.
His averages across those 4 seasons of finals he played as a midfielder at his peak (that’s not to disregard his other finals but he was a small forward at the start of his career and he was in to his mid 30s when he played finals again in 2018 when he returned) are as good as anything he managed in home and away football.

30.7 touches, 13 contested possessions, a goal, a goal assist, 7 inside 50s, 4 tackles, 7 clearances

Influence mate influence. Otherwise Tom Mitchell would be the GOAT. Also I think I just read before career disposals difference is 0.2% or something around the same for goals.
 

Sky

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I voted Dusty for many reasons and some maybe unfair but Ablett is a traitor to me and always will be. I genuinely feel nothing hearing that name and his father retired the year before I was born so don’t particularly care for him either. A guy like Selwood or Bartel may be the next echelon below but they’ll always have my respect.

Jnr came back because it was convenient to him at the time and not because he wanted to. That makes his Craig Lowndes like behaviour so much worse. Maybe it stings cause I was 13 when he left but don’t care for the self righteous religious man.

Fellow Geelong supporters please don’t respond as your opinions on this one can’t change how I feel.
 
Last edited:
Jun 4, 2005
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I brought up Brownlow finishes because you did ya nong.
I was talking coaches award finishes....ya nong.

GAZjnr won it three times on the trot 07,08,09....and then 6th in his final year at the Cats. When was at GC he finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd and 5th.

If you want brownlow Gaz went

4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 1st, 2nd

So across an 8 year period, Gaz was top 5 in brownlow and coaches basically every year...and the players gave him 5 MVP gongs during this span, and he won 5-6 club BnFs.

That is sustained brilliance that nobody else gets close to, 8 consecutive seasons where coaches, players, umpires ranked him in top handful in output and performance (not reputation).

Dusty only had two equivalent years 2017 (which was amazing) and 2016.

But yes, Dusty had a good game in a belting of the Giants so is better...Richmond nuff logic
 

Lingsface

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I voted Dusty for many reasons and some maybe unfair but Ablett is a traitor to me and always will be. I genuinely feel nothing hearing that name and his father retired the year before I was born so don’t particularly care for him either. A guy like Selwood or Bartel may be the next echelon below but they’ll always have my respect.

Jnr came back because it was convenient to him at the time and not because he wanted to. That makes his Craig Lowndes like behaviour so much worse.
You little sook, how about you appreciate the years he gave us. If you grow up Gary Abletts son in Geelong it’s a lot of work the expectations the abuse the rumours the fame, then you win 2 premierships and become the best player in the competition so it’s more and more attention. The next day someone offers you huge money to go play football in a place where they don’t even recognise you in amazing conditions by the beach, you take it. He’s done his duties and more than anyone ever expected and he can live a life of a person that he is very humble and not a real attention seeker, there was no lack of love lost for Abletts Geelong name for me at all.
 

Lingsface

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I was talking coaches award finishes....ya nong.

GAZjnr won it three times on the trot 07,08,09....and then 6th in his final year at the Cats. When was at GC he finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd and 5th.

If you want brownlow Gaz went

4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 1st, 2nd

So across an 8 year period, Gaz was top 5 in brownlow and coaches basically every year...and the players gave him 5 MVP gongs during this span, and he won 5-6 club BnFs.

That is sustained brilliance that nobody else gets close to, 8 consecutive seasons where coaches, players, umpires ranked him in top handful in output and performance (not reputation).

Dusty only had two equivalent years 2017 (which was amazing) and 2016.

But yes, Dusty had a good game in a belting of the Giants so is better...Richmond nuff logic
Case closed
 
Aug 13, 2018
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I was talking coaches award finishes....ya nong.

GAZjnr won it three times on the trot 07,08,09....and then 6th in his final year at the Cats. When was at GC he finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd and 5th.

If you want brownlow Gaz went

4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 5th, 5th, 1st, 2nd

So across an 8 year period, Gaz was top 5 in brownlow and coaches basically every year...and the players gave him 5 MVP gongs during this span, and he won 5-6 club BnFs.

That is sustained brilliance that nobody else gets close to, 8 consecutive seasons where coaches, players, umpires ranked him in top handful in output and performance (not reputation).

Dusty only had two equivalent years 2017 (which was amazing) and 2016.

But yes, Dusty had a good game in a belting of the Giants so is better...Richmond nuff logic
Hard to argue with that analysis.
 
Jun 14, 2015
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Yes because no other players would take that sort of money. Heaps of them have been offered similar amounts. Heaps of players. Dozens. And all of them have knocked it back.
I don’t see the point of this comment and I can’t think of another elite player who joined one of the startups at the peak of ther abilities. Every great player would have been thrown overs to join suns or giants but how many did? Aside from Ablett the money-hungry piggyman, who sadly spent the majority of his best years in a total mess of a team. Was begging to come back too, from memory. But gcs kept him to his contract while they sat at the arse end of the latter and everyone watched players like martin and hodge tear apart grand finals instead. It’s really sad. I’m still sad about it.
 
May 5, 2016
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I don’t see the point of this comment and I can’t think of another elite player who joined one of the startups at the peak of ther abilities. Every great player would have been thrown overs to join suns or giants but how many did? Aside from Ablett the money-hungry piggyman, who sadly spent the majority of his best years in a total mess of a team. Was begging to come back too, from memory. But gcs kept him to his contract while they sat at the arse end of the latter and everyone watched players like martin and hodge tear apart grand finals instead. It’s really sad. I’m still sad about it.


You seriously think that other players were offered $1 million PER SEASON more than they were getting at their existing club, and knocked it back. Players like Martin who we know for a fact have not been offered that sort of money, we are supposed to imagine that they would not have done that?

Luke Hodge who finished his career at a different club, wouldn’t have gone elsewhere for a $1 million a year pay rise?
 
Jun 12, 2018
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The mvp is named after matthews labeled the best player of the last century.
Best finals player is named after Gary Ayer’s medal not the best player of the last century.
Multiple MVP list here the best of the best on it.
 

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