Unofficial Preview Changes and Discussion - Dogs round 16

[beardancer]

OK, ffs lets give Matho another go.......Sheeeesh haven't we all seen him just get the ball and punt it as far as he can.......that's what he offers, and it's not good enough.

haven't we seen this over all the years he's been here.

 

[Lazza16]

I liked what I saw of Lohmann earlier in the year. Is he back playing VFL yet or is this week his first week back?

He is kicking a lazy 5 against the Magpie 2s today.

 

[spotthedog1]

I hate 1 week debut then dropped, but we were stupidly inexperienced against Melbourne. Seriously, I saw the team list and went looking for my old betting account to throw money on Melbourne. I didn't in the end, which is a shame. It was easy money.

Can't drop Payne - he did well and needs games. Shouldn't drop Terry because he actually deserves to be played in the position he plays week in week out, and Lyons out offers that opportunity. How on earth anyone thought it was clever to bring in TBez to AFL level in a role he never plays is beyond me...
Matho - no. Just no. We need to move forward, and to guys who actually might have an AFL-level ceiling.

In Zorks Bailey AhChee
Out Tunstill Lyons Robbo

Still concerned that's too inexperienced but we don't really have any better options...

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeah I get that, sure that is at the expense of Payne though…. I personally thought he was great though. Mostly anyway!

Lester isn't purely a KPD, he can play tall and small. There's no reason Payne has to be the one making way for him.

 

[LIONS08]

Lester isn't purely a KPD, he can play tall and small. There's no reason Payne has to be the one making way for him.

Who would you take out for him?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Who would you take out for him?

As I wrote earlier in this thread, Answerth.

 

[mpal6]

So its Dogs, Bombers, Giants and Suns. Then the harder run of Tigers, Blues, Saints and Demons. We could go 3-1 (loss to Dogs) and feel all good about the existing setup, then do a 2-2 or 1-3 or worse case 0-4. Will be a wasted season.

It'll be a pretty big move for Fagan to ditch his 3 talls, long kick to wing, mark and roll forward arrangement and do something different. How far is he prepared to go down this path, we'll know based on the team named against Dogs. I see our coaching staff are still hoping the 3 talls will gel come finals time. But knowing ACL recoveries and how long players take to play properly and then hit form, I am not sure Hipwood will get there this year.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Hipwood has been back for a month and has shown nothing at all! He must be on his last chance. Rayner showed glimpses immediately after returning from his injury but I am worried that Hipwood's best may be behind him.

If he was a rookie he would have been dropped a a week ago.

 

[mpal6]

Hipwood has been back for a month and has shown nothing at all! He must be on his last chance. Rayner showed glimpses immediately after returning from his injury but I am worried that Hipwood's best may be behind him.

If he was a rookie he would have been dropped a a week ago.

Usually the year back from ACL would be circumspect. Rayner is different as he pretty much did his ACL in 2021 pre-season and had the whole year to recover + do a proper pre-season again before 2022.

Hipwood would be far better in 2023 than what we're seeing now. Our coaching staff are playing him this year anyway hoping for a miracle and he hits the straps sooner. It's a gamble that's all.

 

[mpal6]

As I wrote earlier in this thread, Answerth.

Answerth is a honest mid-tier player like Lester. He doesn't have any spectacular skills that is a difference maker to be honest.

Adams can mark (while limited in kicking), Rich/Coleman for rebound and kicking skills, Starce is doing the shutdown job week-in, week-out and pretty good in contest. Harris can do elite zone off and Payne take the tall forwards. I'd say Payne has more tools than Harris like pace for example.

If Answerth's credential is just doing shutdown jobs, We would be better off swapping him for a player who has a point of difference in terms of skills. My preference would be Madden as he'll add more pace to that backline and give us a different look. Keep investing in Madden for next 8 rounds and there could be a return on that investment come finals. I don't think Answerth is the answer against top 4 sides.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yep. Ah Chee could play the Answerth role and you rotate Lester and Payne, Lester and Rich or even Lester and Starcevich, if you want to free Starcevich up for some time in the middle. Fagan is too obsessed with the Brutus Beefcake Defender type and I don’t see we can afford to have Adams and Payne in defence given that both panic with ball in hand, Adams disposal by foot is atrocious and Payne’s is not much better. Rich still gets lots of the ball, but there are plenty of soft touches in there as the ball is switched about or he gets a cheapie running past. Once again against Melbourne we leaked goals, were caught out of position and coughed it up in defence. We desperately need the utility, skill and football IQ that Lester would bring. We need a General in defence and we have not got one at the minute.
For those who argue that it is not our defence’s fault, that our midfield makes it impossible for them, they need to look closely and compare Melbourne’s defence with ours. I was on Level 2 at the MCG on Thursday, at the 50 city end, with a perfect view of the relative defences. There were plenty of times where our midfield won the contest, streamed past the Melbourne mids and sent ball into our attack. Then what happened, our Lions forwards, particularly Daniher, Hipwood, McStay and Cameron had a Melbourne defender close checking them and making the contest for the ball a brutal one on one that we lost more often than not. By way of contrast, our defensive unit were playing off their men, out of position and running around trying to cover each other’s men when they had got loose. It was a shambles. People are putting air into Payne’s tyres and he wasn’t our worst, but he took most of his intercept marks once the game was well and truly over. There were still too many contests where Andrews and Adams had zero impact. Watching Fritsch and other Melbourne forwards take pack marks while our defenders were out of the contest or position waving their fists in the fresh air was depressing. Melbourne’s defence were ruthless and disciplined ours was brave at times, but it looked confused and ramshackle.

 

[Squizz89]

Just on Hippy, before he was injured he wouldn’t have been in the top 10-15 key forwards anyway based on output.

He averages less than 10 disposals a game over his career and less than 1.5 goals a game, so coming off a knee reco you’d expect him to be below his best which wasn’t at the truly elite standard anyway.

I can understand the coaches thinking about keeping him in, because he has the ability to turn it on for a game no doubt, but consistency has never been his friend and that probably only gets heightened coming off a reco.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Usually the year back from ACL would be circumspect. Rayner is different as he pretty much did his ACL in 2021 pre-season and had the whole year to recover + do a proper pre-season again before 2022.

Hipwood would be far better in 2023 than what we're seeing now. Our coaching staff are playing him this year anyway hoping for a miracle and he hits the straps sooner. It's a gamble that's all.

So do we play him in the seniors at all if he isn't physically able to play well?

 

[mpal6]

So do we play him in the seniors at all if he isn't physically able to play well?

Good question, I'd play Fort to be honest. But coaching panel logic is Hipwood will gain more by playing in 1s.

Hipwood is fit and able so that's not the problem here. Is he going to hit form (that we are hoping) and combine well with other forwards by the time finals comes around is the question. I don't think anyone can answer that one.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Good question, I'd play Fort to be honest. But coaching panel logic is Hipwood will gain more by playing in 1s.

Hipwood is fit and able so that's not the problem here. Is he going to hit form (that we are hoping) and combine well with other forwards by the time finals comes around is the question. I don't think anyone can answer that one.

I’d play them both. Hipwood is going to get better as the season progresses. It makes no sense to have him out of the side. Fagan needs to stop thinking he is Kevin Sheedy and get back to basics. Having McInerney and Fort in the team worked really well at the start of the year, and having Fort going forward to kick the occasional goal was the icing on the cake. It stretched opponents in the ruck and in defence. But then Fagan took a competitive advantage that we had and effectively tossed it away for no good reason. Same with Prior. Why in gods name is he not in the team? He is young, having a red hot go, was playing well and suddenly he can’t get a game? Instead Fagan picks a first gamer for our biggest match of the year and elevates T.Berry ahead of Prior and ahead of Ah Chee for good measure. Silly stuff at selection table from Fagan. Buck stops with the coach and if we slip down the ladder or have another poor finals series, the acid is on him I’m afraid.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Just on Hippy, before he was injured he wouldn’t have been in the top 10-15 key forwards anyway based on output.

He averages less than 10 disposals a game over his career and less than 1.5 goals a game, so coming off a knee reco you’d expect him to be below his best which wasn’t at the truly elite standard anyway.

I can understand the coaches thinking about keeping him in, because he has the ability to turn it on for a game no doubt, but consistency has never been his friend and that probably only gets heightened coming off a reco.

He started last season really well thanks to Joe taking the best key back. Kicked 21 goals in the first 10 games before slowing down a bit and then doing his knee

Always harsh quoting career stats for a young key forward who got games early and played on the best key backs

 

[Gadzorks]

OK, ffs lets give Matho another go.......Sheeeesh haven't we all seen him just get the ball and punt it as far as he can.......that's what he offers, and it's not good enough.

haven't we seen this over all the years he's been here.

Matho is playing to zero crowds and working his arse off every week. Bet he does more than 17 sprints and outworks the retiree.

Absolutely bring him in to replace any player who are puts in less sprints then Mitch.

Which is the whole bloody team. Embarrassing and telling.

The fact that players in the reserves who put in massive efforts don't get reward probably contributes to that shameful statistic. Arrogant players, believing they are sooo great they are untouchable.

Heads MUST roll this week. Take the loss, and send a message. Who knows - might not be a loss because we will have players actually trying.

 

[LIONS08]

Just on Hippy, before he was injured he wouldn’t have been in the top 10-15 key forwards anyway based on output.

He averages less than 10 disposals a game over his career and less than 1.5 goals a game, so coming off a knee reco you’d expect him to be below his best which wasn’t at the truly elite standard anyway.

I can understand the coaches thinking about keeping him in, because he has the ability to turn it on for a game no doubt, but consistency has never been his friend and that probably only gets heightened coming off a reco.

His numbers where as good as any other 23 year old (before his knee) key position forward in the game.

 

[mpal6]

I’d play them both. Hipwood is going to get better as the season progresses. It makes no sense to have him out of the side. Fagan needs to stop thinking he is Kevin Sheedy and get back to basics. Having McInerney and Fort in the team worked really well at the start of the year, and having Fort going forward to kick the occasional goal was the icing on the cake. It stretched opponents in the ruck and in defence. But then Fagan took a competitive advantage that we had and effectively tossed it away for no good reason. Same with Prior. Why in gods name is he not in the team? He is young, having a red hot go, was playing well and suddenly he can’t get a game? Instead Fagan picks a first gamer for our biggest match of the year and elevates T.Berry ahead of Prior and ahead of Ah Chee for good measure. Silly stuff at selection table from Fagan. Buck stops with the coach and if we slip down the ladder or have another poor finals series, the acid is on him I’m afraid.

Becomes a bit tricky when we have to fit in 5 talls. The team who has done it recently was Port Adelaide in 2020 I think - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiades, Lycett and Ladhams.

I'm starting to think we could try Hipwood on the wing. He'll be a nightmare match up for the mid-180 wingers with his height and ability to outmark them. But it will be a trade off for someone running away from him.

 

[LIONS08]

My changes for this week are as follows

Ah-Chee for Answerth. He just has no outstanding qualities and I think Ah-Chee has the tools to be a solid player if persevered with. I thought he was stiff to get dropped initially.

Beast for Lyons if he is out injured.

Zorko for Tunstill. Tough in the young kid but at least he knows the level required now.

Bailey for Terry. Once again, stiff call. We are playing Berry out of position and Bailey is much better at the position the Terry is being asked to play.

Prior for Robbo and make Robbo the sub. Tough on Robbo but I feel Prior offers more. Can also swap with Ah-Chee down back depending on what we need. They offer some versatility.

 

[Squizz89]

He started last season really well thanks to Joe taking the best key back. Kicked 21 goals in the first 10 games before slowing down a bit and then doing his knee

Always harsh quoting career stats for a young key forward who got games early and played on the best key backs

Yeah that’s fair. That’s the reality though so far of his career.

I guess the point I was trying to make though was that he’s never been a high possession player and/or goal kicker so it’s harsh to expect him to come back in off a reco and be something he wasn’t before.

Should he be playing seniors right now? I don’t know the answer to that but I can understand why the coaches are. But we should also not expect miracles. Think we got far bigger issues anyway than what Eric may or may not be producing right now.

 

[Gadzorks]

Becomes a bit tricky when we have to fit in 5 talls. The team who has done it recently was Port Adelaide in 2020 I think - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiades, Lycett and Ladhams.

I'm starting to think we could try Hipwood on the wing. He'll be a nightmare match up for the mid-180 wingers with his height and ability to outmark them. But it will be a trade off for someone running away from him.

I thought the same re hipwood on the wing. Supposedly has the engine, likes to play upfield and is a bonus tall for our game plan of long bombs. .

 

[mpal6]

The more I think about Hipwood for the wing, it's starting to make total sense. He'll be our relief kick if needed for defense without our forwards actually needing to lead to the wing. Forwards can hold station deep and we can aim for Hipwood with the hope that he'll be able to outmark his undersized wing opponent. Hipwood is a decent, long field kick and if he gets a footy in the wing, he can pump it long quickly.

Our mids and defense may need to provide some cover if Hipwood couldn't halve the contest and there is a rebound. But that happens today anyway and we'll be trying something different to what we have attempted so far this season. Something like a plan C/D/E possibly.

 

[mpal6]

I though the same re hipwood on the wing. Supposedly has the engine, likes to play upfield and is a bonus tall for our game plan of long bombs. .

Ok, how do we get this to Fagan now?

 

[M Malice]