Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Hawks mauled by Dogs

[PenAndPaper]

We got done in by our turnovers we had the ball and gave it straight back with poor skills. When the pressure ramped up our skills went to water. Yes we got hammered in the middle but some of the goals atleast half if not more in their run of 13 were from front half turn overs. Can someone clarify. I am going to watch it on the replay to see what i jave missed at the ground and hope to share more of my thoughts

I felt the same watching the game live. Particularly in the second quarter it was our s**t mistakes under little pressure that did us in. They then started to dominate the centre but the damage was already done by the point imo.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Loved listening to the two old Footscray blokes behind me when Sicily and Bont had a wrestle. Sicily really gets the opposition fans going. Haha.

 

[HedgeFund]

yeah, don't think many would disagree. Need to rip the bandaid off, play the likes on Finn, Morris, Long for rest of year. Some will say their performances won't deserve it, but were 4-10 with the seniors in.
Play Howe, Shiels, Morrison, Phillips etc at Box Hill. We get a look at who is worth keeping and prob a much needed top 3 pick. Box Hill have a better shot at a Flag as well while they're at it. I'm sure Mackenzie is talking to Mitchell about what the top tier is in the draft and how far we wouldn't want to drop.

Phillips (and McEvoy) have been injured pretty much all year.

Clearly the coaching staff think those two are best 22 from what we have read They shouldn’t be prevented from playing AFL if available.

Tom Phillips is in a different category to Shiels/Howe. He is valued more highly in the inner sanctum than on BF for sure.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Nash is the obvious candidate - intelligent, articulate, personable and competitive. He needs another couple of years to consolidate his spot (or head back home) so it is fill ins till 2025. Jaegar has two years in him. Unfortunately, Sicily has demonstrated he remains something of an adolescent who does silly things and is inclined to sulk. I reckon Hardwick should come under consideration.

I have admitted that Nash has surprised me with his performances this year but I think that’s a couple of bridges too far to make him captain!

Still a long way from certain that he will make it as an AFL footballer TBH.

 

[burger09]

Watched the first quarter again.
Scrimmer and cj dominating off half back.
McDonald and Moore elite at half forward.
Reeves dominating and giving silver service to the mids. Even getting centre clearences.
Lewis looking like a hard working force.

At least the positive is when we were up it was the younger players leading the charge. With that comes hope for the future.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Watched the first quarter again.
Scrimmer and cj dominating off half back.
McDonald and Moore elite at half forward.
Reeves dominating and giving silver service to the mids. Even getting centre clearences.
Lewis looking like a hard working force.

At least the positive is when we were up it was the younger players leading the charge. With that comes hope for the future.

We definetly have enough talent across the field across the back and forward lines that when we are on and the game is played in our terms we look really good.

Problem is when the game turns into a contested slog our midfield just gets plain dominated at the contest and there’s literally not a thing we can do to stop the opposition walking the ball out of the middle. Which leads to 13 unanswered goals and the like.

Until we fix our midfield we are basically schizened but we new that before the season even started.

 

[HedgeFund]

We definetly have enough talent across the field across the back and forward lines that when we are on and the game is played in our terms we look really good.

Problem is when the game turns into a contested slog our midfield just gets plain dominated at the contest and there’s literally not a thing we can do to stop the opposition walking the ball out of the middle. Which leads to 13 unanswered goals and the like.

Until we fix our midfield we are basically schizened but we new that before the season even started.

My concern is this - it’s round 15 and we have just come off a bye. A good time to assess and work out what some of our RFIs are.

Yet the absolute landslide we saw against St Kilda, Essendon, Gold Coast and Sydney (fatigue?) came through in an even greater way with 13 unanswered goals on Friday night.

When it’s happened 3 or 4 times before in the season, and we are supposed to be an improving team, it’s very difficult to stomach.

 

[H00t]

We got done in by our turnovers we had the ball and gave it straight back with poor skills. When the pressure ramped up our skills went to water. Yes we got hammered in the middle but some of the goals atleast half if not more in their run of 13 were from front half turn overs. Can someone clarify. I am going to watch it on the replay to see what i jave missed at the ground and hope to share more of my thoughts

Dogs set up well to stop us moving the ball. We got some flow in the first and last quarter.

But the dogs definitely shut it down in the middle two quarters and we had no way of moving the ball at pace. Was the most stagnant we’ve been this year.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

My concern is this - it’s round 15 and we have just come off a bye. A good time to assess and work out what some of our RFIs are.

Yet the absolute landslide we saw against St Kilda, Essendon, Gold Coast and Sydney (fatigue?) came through in an even greater way with 13 unanswered goals on Friday night.

When it’s happened 3 or 4 times before in the season, and we are supposed to be an improving team, it’s very difficult to stomach.

The problem is it’s a structural issue (midfield getting dominated) that can only really be fixed via recruitment.

Not sure what we could do to fix it mid season apart from going ultra defensive and I saw enough of that the last three years to last me a lifetime

 

[toomanysquibs]

Ned Long is very slow from the 4 games I have watched . Nice size but very slow. Cannot have Long Shiels Worpel Mitchell and Howe in the same team . 3 of the above need to be moved out.

We don’t need anymore slow players that’s for sure.

Finn is a long distance runner but a Butcher by foot. Some real tough decisions for Sam.

That entire post was about the height of players on our list who are playing midfield now, or who might get a chance soon just to be clear.

We've stepped it up with the introduction of a taller midfield finally, and it will likely get taller again after this year's draft.

All those deficiencies you mention have been written on here 50-100 times or more.

The young guys we have who are 185cm+ will mature and we'll get pushed around less and less (Newcombe and McDonald) by teams with taller midfields. Our 184cm draftees will likely wind up being around 186cm or so by the time they stop growing. Finn Mc can still make it if he cleans up his disposal in the way Brad Sewell did.

We just need a Callaghan type to come along via the draft to pair with Nash's size while he's around, and hopefully find a spot for Long as our other older, slower players are gradually phased out.

Ward, Newcombe, McDonald and Butler are young. So is Reeves. They're in and out of the side and playing without continuity for a variety of reasons this year. Collectively they've shown a heap of skill and class even at this early stage. They don't exactly have world beaters around them to help either.

There's a weird belief by some posters here that what you see immediately is what you're going to get with younger players. Our midfield could get knocked over at every stoppage this year, and still wind up being A grade by 2024 or so.

 

[burner1]

We definetly have enough talent across the field across the back and forward lines that when we are on and the game is played in our terms we look really good.

Problem is when the game turns into a contested slog our midfield just gets plain dominated at the contest and there’s literally not a thing we can do to stop the opposition walking the ball out of the middle. Which leads to 13 unanswered goals and the like.

Until we fix our midfield we are basically schizened but we new that before the season even started.

Disagree in part. When dogs ramped up pressure and made it more a contested ball style game we were found wanting across the part. Yes midfield was poor but contests all over the ground where we weren’t hard, skilled or fast enough.

Most players in afl look good in free-flowing transition footy. It’s what’s happens when pressure and becomes contested that separates teams. Too many of our guys look good when’s going is easy but go to water in contests or when
pressure ramps up. That included Sicily, CJ, Moore, Morrison etc. Yes we fought back in last but game was well over.

 

[JoeHawk]

Loved listening to the two old Footscray blokes behind me when Sicily and Bont had a wrestle. Sicily really gets the opposition fans going. Haha.

So short memories. They once had the dirtiest little sniper playing the game in Libba. Sicily’s an angel in comparison.

 

[HedgeFund]

The problem is it’s a structural issue (midfield getting dominated) that can only really be fixed via recruitment.

Not sure what we could do to fix it mid season apart from going ultra defensive and I saw enough of that the last three years to last me a lifetime

If it’s genuinely a structural issue - then personnel should be irrelevant shouldn’t it?

Need to have plans to prevent a trickle becoming a flood, then once the tide is stemmed and we negate momentum return to a more attacking focus.

Haven’t seen that at all this year. It is pure attack and don’t worry about leaving the back door open for them to walk straight through.

Melbourne only became a genuine force when their midfield started defending. Before that they were a bunch of talented ball hunters

 

[Simon Crawshay]

If it’s genuinely a structural issue - then personnel should be irrelevant shouldn’t it?

Need to have plans to prevent a trickle becoming a flood, then once the tide is stemmed and we negate momentum return to a more attacking focus.

Haven’t seen that at all this year. It is pure attack and don’t worry about leaving the back door open for them to walk straight through.

Melbourne only became a genuine force when their midfield started defending. Before that they were a bunch of talented ball hunters

I meant structural as in being forced to field an NBA side with a starting centre who is 5 foot 8. It’s almost a purely personnel issue not tactical.

Our mids (on average) are slow, small, poorly skilled, can’t win the contested ball and can’t defend. Sounds harsh but Friday night was a classic example.

Sam could do a Clarko and go ultra defensive but really all that would mean would be we would lose by less / score less goals / be boring to watch.

The only way we fix this issue is by drafting in mids who can win the contested ball / have size and pace / willing to defend / execute their skills to the required level.

 

[HedgeFund]

I meant structural as in being forced to field an NBA side with a starting centre who is 5 foot 8. It’s almost a purely personnel issue not tactical.

Our mids (on average) are slow, small, poorly skilled, can’t win the contested ball and can’t defend. Sounds harsh but Friday night was a classic example.

Sam could do a Clarko and go ultra defensive but really all that would mean would be we would lose by less / score less goals / be boring to watch.

The only way we fix this issue is by drafting in mids who can win the contested ball / have size and pace / willing to defend / execute their skills to the required level.

Excellent. We will grab a 6-pack of those in November.

 

[Lickmesocks]

That entire post was about the height of players on our list who are playing midfield now, or who might get a chance soon just to be clear.

We've stepped it up with the introduction of a taller midfield finally, and it will likely get taller again after this year's draft.

All those deficiencies you mention have been written on here 50-100 times or more.

The young guys we have who are 185cm+ will mature and we'll get pushed around less and less (Newcombe and McDonald) by teams with taller midfields. Our 184cm draftees will likely wind up being around 186cm or so by the time they stop growing. Finn Mc can still make it if he cleans up his disposal in the way Brad Sewell did.

We just need a Callaghan type to come along via the draft to pair with Nash's size while he's around, and hopefully find a spot for Long as our other older, slower players are gradually phased out.

Ward, Newcombe, McDonald and Butler are young. So is Reeves. They're in and out of the side and playing without continuity for a variety of reasons this year. Collectively they've shown a heap of skill and class even at this early stage. They don't exactly have world beaters around them to help either.

There's a weird belief by some posters here that what you see immediately is what you're going to get with younger players. Our midfield could get knocked over at every stoppage this year, and still wind up being A grade by 2024 or so.

A lot of people like to talk Nash up due to his size. He averages 11 possesions a game over a 5 year career so let’s pump the brakes a little perhaps .

 

[theiaofseed]

A lot of people like to talk Nash up due to his size. He averages 11 possesions a game over a 5 year career so let’s pump the brakes a little perhaps .

Or you know we could look at his number when playing midfield... strange concept I know.

19.7 disposals 4.7 clearances 4.6 tackles ~ When playing as a midfielder.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

A lot of people like to talk Nash up due to his size. He averages 11 possesions a game over a 5 year career so let’s pump the brakes a little perhaps .

Why would you look at possession averages over his career, when we all know he was played as a forward pocket for so long, and he barely got near it?

That’s just odd.

 

[TheFourPillars]

For all his attacking prowess. Scrimshaw was a defensive liability especially in that second qtr. He needs much more balance in his game. His opponent was atleast 20m away from him in that forward line. It wasnt on turn over either. CJ had a stinker. Its a learning game for many of our young defenders

 

[TheFourPillars]

Dominic03 u disagreeing with me doesnt take away from the truth. I just watched the replay. I reviewed the tape so called.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Dominic03 u disagreeing with me doesnt take away from the truth. I just watched the replay. I reviewed the tape so called.

I've rewatched it aswell, i don't think you can blame our defenders too much.

Scrim again i believe is a pretty good/decent however you wanna put it as a defender.

Plus especially in the 2nd quarter, there were multiple times where our defense was caught lacking because our midfield were letting direct and unpressured inside 50s.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I've rewatched it aswell, i don't think you can blame our defenders too much.

Scrim again i believe is a pretty good/decent however you wanna put it as a defender.

Plus especially in the 2nd quarter, there were multiple times where our defense was caught lacking because our midfield were letting direct and unpressured inside 50s.

You didnt watch it like i did then mate. The instances i am talking about were not from turn overs. Just scrim ball watching while his opponent ran away. Twice in the second qtr alone where poor dimma was left with a two on 1

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You didnt watch it like i did then mate. The instances i am talking about were not from turn overs. Just scrim ball watching while his opponent ran away. Twice in the second qtr alone where poor dimma was left with a two on 1

I'll watch again soon, but didn't see it too often, and i think i remember once where Dimma punched it over the line.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Why would you look at possession averages over his career, when we all know he was played as a forward pocket for so long, and he barely got near it?

That’s just odd.

i just don’t get the love affair on here for Nash. Perhaps that clears it up a little .

 

[Lickmesocks]

For all his attacking prowess. Scrimshaw was a defensive liability especially in that second qtr. He needs much more balance in his game. His opponent was atleast 20m away from him in that forward line. It wasnt on turn over either. CJ had a stinker. Its a learning game for many of our young defenders

I love it when CJ try’s to take it on but Friday there was no balance. It was like he had blinkers on and zero vision for what was happening around him.