Review Round 15, 2022 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[Mighty Lions]

Rayner is still learning the midfield craft role. Pretty harsh from King to sit back in his chair and cheap shot Rayner. Where has king ever given any praise to Rayner for the previous games this year where he has created goal scoring opportunities.I stand corrected but I cannot think of any.If king is going to critique our midfield he needs look at the output of the more senior members of the midfield as they are and should be the role models to the youngsters.My concern as should be King’s is the efforts of lyons this year. To me,that is more of a concern than that of Rayner. Other than that Montagna is corrcet.

Rayner has 77 games under his belt now. When does the learning excuse go away and what King says become fact? If what King says has merit, he should take it on board and become a better player from the learning experience...thats what makes a good player & a good football team.

Apart from McLuggage, I found everyone's performance unsatisfactory. I don't doubt their effort but watching the replay I found the team in panic mode for most of the game. How many times did we see a Brisbane player take possession of the ball and then bomb it the first opportunity he had without even looking? Last year I would say that Robbo was the only consistent player to have this bad habit but the game on Thursday night, they all had it. Very unsavoury viewing.
I thought our defensive pressure when protecting zones was OK but our tackling was amateurish at best and consistently let us down at critical stages in the game.
I am confident this can be a learning experience for us despite many on here saying we aren't up to it, flat track bullies, yada yada yada.

The good thing about footy in June is that there is always a next week and this game against the Dogs will be a good test and also an opportunity for the boys to learn something from last weeks debacle and move ahead in a positive manner.

 

[briztoon]

Rayner has 77 games under his belt now. When does the learning excuse go away and what King says become fact? If what King says has merit, he should take it on board and become a better player from the learning experience...thats what makes a good player & a good football team.

Apart from McLuggage, I found everyone's effort unsatisfactory. I don't doubt their effort but watching the replay I found the team in panic mode for most of the game. How many times did we see a Brisbane player take possession of the ball and then bomb it the first opportunity he had without even looking? Last year I would say that Robbo was the only consistent player to have this bad habit but the game on Thursday night, they all had it. Very unsavoury viewing.
I thought our defensive pressure when protecting zones was OK but our tackling was amateurish at best and consistently let us down at critical stages in the game.
I am confident this can be a learning experience for us despite many on here saying we aren't up to it, flat track bullies, yada yada yada.

The good thing about footy in June is that there is always a next week and this game against the Dogs will be a good test and also an opportunity for the boys to learn something from last weeks debacle and move ahead in a positive manner.

The thing is, we’ve played this way the whole season. We’ve belted two teams that gave up after 10 minutes, other than that, we haven’t looked impressive in any other win.

You said the boys were up for this game, then they serve up the worst performance of the year.

We are pretenders until we actually start putting together a run of decent performances.

 

[Mighty Lions]

The thing is, we’ve played this way the whole season. We’ve belted two teams that gave up after 10 minutes, other than that, we haven’t looked impressive in any other win.

You said the boys were up for this game, then they serve up the worst performance of the year.

We are pretenders until we actually start putting together a run of decent performances.

The boys were up and excited to the max for the Melbourne game. Does that guarantee a win? NO it doesn't. I can assure you they are more disappointed in the game than you or I will ever be. Does that make it any better? NO it doesn't.

Call them what you like...it means not a lot to me. Supporters who eat their own don't encourage me to read anything much they have to say...BUT, you are entitled to an opinion and I do respect that.

 

[martinson]

Rayner has 77 games under his belt now. When does the learning excuse go away and what King says become fact? If what King says has merit, he should take it on board and become a better player from the learning experience...thats what makes a good player & a good football team.

Apart from McLuggage, I found everyone's effort unsatisfactory. I don't doubt their effort but watching the replay I found the team in panic mode for most of the game. How many times did we see a Brisbane player take possession of the ball and then bomb it the first opportunity he had without even looking? Last year I would say that Robbo was the only consistent player to have this bad habit but the game on Thursday night, they all had it. Very unsavoury viewing.
I thought our defensive pressure when protecting zones was OK but our tackling was amateurish at best and consistently let us down at critical stages in the game.
I am confident this can be a learning experience for us despite many on here saying we aren't up to it, flat track bullies, yada yada yada.

The good thing about footy in June is that there is always a next week and this game against the Dogs will be a good test and also an opportunity for the boys to learn something from last weeks debacle and move ahead in a positive manner.

Did you notice every time McCluggage got near the ball there were 2 of them all over him.

Obviously they targeted him as a threat and just left the slow coaches and unmotivated in the dust.

 

[BRAB]

The boys were up and excited to the max for the Melbourne game. Does that guarantee a win? NO it doesn't. I can assure you they are more disappointed in the game than you or I will ever be. Does that make it any better? NO it doesn't.

Call them what you like...it means not a lot to me. Supporters who eat their own don't encourage me to read anything much they have to say...BUT, you are entitled to an opinion and I do respect that.

I was hoping everyone might have had the flu or something. The fact that they were up to the max for the game and produced what they did last Thursday is pretty concerning.

 

[T Rick]

The boys were up and excited to the max for the Melbourne game. Does that guarantee a win? NO it doesn't. I can assure you they are more disappointed in the game than you or I will ever be. Does that make it any better? NO it doesn't.

Call them what you like...it means not a lot to me. Supporters who eat their own don't encourage me to read anything much they have to say...BUT, you are entitled to an opinion and I do respect that.

Well said ML!

 

[fitzroytheloyallion]

Rayner has 77 games under his belt now. When does the learning excuse go away and what King says become fact? If what King says has merit, he should take it on board and become a better player from the learning experience...thats what makes a good player & a good football team.

Apart from McLuggage, I found everyone's performance unsatisfactory. I don't doubt their effort but watching the replay I found the team in panic mode for most of the game. How many times did we see a Brisbane player take possession of the ball and then bomb it the first opportunity he had without even looking? Last year I would say that Robbo was the only consistent player to have this bad habit but the game on Thursday night, they all had it. Very unsavoury viewing.
I thought our defensive pressure when protecting zones was OK but our tackling was amateurish at best and consistently let us down at critical stages in the game.
I am confident this can be a learning experience for us despite many on here saying we aren't up to it, flat track bullies, yada yada yada.

The good thing about footy in June is that there is always a next week and this game against the Dogs will be a good test and also an opportunity for the boys to learn something from last weeks debacle and move ahead in a positive manner.

To say,Cam should take on board what King says to become a better player is belittling to what Cam has already shown.Cam,himself has displayed self motivation (was not inspired by comments from King),to change his body shape.Cam’s determination to come back from a serious knee injury where he did not player footy for 12 months and put in some really good performances deserves a bit more recognition from you.Let’s give Cam a bit of credit!!!King did not teach him that.

What makes a good footy player is 1) the character to not let adversity destroy your spirit 2) to believe in yourself, your talents and a willingness/desire to want to be better, comes down to attitude. Having a great attitude is important 3)not let outside commentary play with your head 4) have a really good support base (i.e coaches,mentor )take on their feedback and willingness to implement the feedback.

Without commentary from King,Cam is already doing these things himself. Will Cam be another L Neale,I guess time will tell.Cam has youth on his side.One thing I cannot dispute is Cam’s determination to be better.With that attitude,Cam is on the right path.No player that I can recall goes through a season without a bad game here and there, what is important is that bad games do not become the norm.

 

[McIvor]

To say,Cam should take on board what King says to become a better player is belittling to what Cam has already shown.Cam,himself has displayed self motivation (was not inspired by comments from King),to change his body shape.Cam’s determination to come back from a serious knee injury where he did not player footy for 12 months and put in some really good performances deserves a bit more recognition from you.Let’s give Cam a bit of credit!!!King did not teach him that.

What makes a good footy player is 1) the character to not let adversity destroy your spirit 2) to believe in yourself, your talents and a willingness/desire to want to be better, comes down to attitude. Having a great attitude is important 3)not let outside commentary play with your head 4) have a really good support base (i.e coaches,mentor )take on their feedback and willingness to implement the feedback.

Without commentary from King,Cam is already doing these things himself. Will Cam be another L Neale,I guess time will tell.Cam has youth on his side.One thing I cannot dispute is Cam’s determination to be better.With that attitude,Cam is on the right path.No player that I can recall goes through a season without a bad game here and there, what is important is that bad games do not become the norm.

Really well said - i think all players have off weeks and Cam's efforts this year should be commended. He's presented himself in amazing condition and his improvement has been obvious to all - of all people to pick on, Id have thought Cam would have been one of the last particulalry after coming off an ACL.

 

[Mighty Lions]

To say,Cam should take on board what King says to become a better player is belittling to what Cam has already shown.Cam,himself has displayed self motivation (was not inspired by comments from King),to change his body shape.Cam’s determination to come back from a serious knee injury where he did not player footy for 12 months and put in some really good performances deserves a bit more recognition from you.Let’s give Cam a bit of credit!!!King did not teach him that.

What makes a good footy player is 1) the character to not let adversity destroy your spirit 2) to believe in yourself, your talents and a willingness/desire to want to be better, comes down to attitude. Having a great attitude is important 3)not let outside commentary play with your head 4) have a really good support base (i.e coaches,mentor )take on their feedback and willingness to implement the feedback.

Without commentary from King,Cam is already doing these things himself. Will Cam be another L Neale,I guess time will tell.Cam has youth on his side.One thing I cannot dispute is Cam’s determination to be better.With that attitude,Cam is on the right path.No player that I can recall goes through a season without a bad game here and there, what is important is that bad games do not become the norm.

You missed the point of what I was saying regarding your post but that's OK. Agree with most of what you say above.

 

[Tom14]

The thing is, we’ve played this way the whole season. We’ve belted two teams that gave up after 10 minutes, other than that, we haven’t looked impressive in any other win.

You said the boys were up for this game, then they serve up the worst performance of the year.

We are pretenders until we actually start putting together a run of decent performances.

I've asked you this question before but what about the Sydney win was not impressive?

I feel like I'm going insane, its not like I'm telling you we've had heaps of good wins, but why leave out the genuinely good one? Your overall point will not suffer if you acknowledge it.

 

[Tom14]

Speaking of actual tactical analysis, the Shinboner patreon page (which does footy analysis on all teams from an ex North melbourne employee) had an actual daming analysis of our second quarter.

It particularly focused on Melbourne exploiting poor Jimmy Tunstill at stoppages twice - once where Petracca outmaneouvers then just burns away from him, and another when he gets completely thrown off by Viney when attempting to tackle.

I'm sure he wasn't alone as basically no one stuck a tackle after Joe got Brayshaw in the 1st, but does call into question debuting someone to play wing against the dees.

The other key point was that our backline was under serious pressure from the smaller melbourne forward line that they usually put out - showed the clip of that awful sequence where we handballed backward into pressure only for payne's kick to get smothered.

 

[briztoon]

I've asked you this question before but what about the Sydney win was not impressive?

I feel like I'm going insane, its not like I'm telling you we've had heaps of good wins, but why leave out the genuinely good one? Your overall point will not suffer if you acknowledge it.

Honestly, I forgot we beat Sydney.

 

[Jivlain]

That's 1.5m either wing. About what Rocca missed by in 2002. Overhead photo comparison suggests Gabba pockets are deeper too. View attachment 1433175

 

[Tassie4ever]

Just my thoughts: our current best 22 won't win a Final, let alone a GF.

We've benefited from a softish run to date but it seems to me that whenever we run up against anything like a serious obstacle we fail. Basically if Neale isn't outstanding forget it. We are good front runners but when the going gets tough we're out of there. Quick.

Begins at HB. Not good enough, big enough, strong enough or tough enough. Not bagging just a few individuals but eg: McStay isn't consistent enough, what is going on in Harris scone, people must be watching a different Rayner than me, our HBs lack talent and run, and the Big O is at least one rung below the best. Only takes a few weakish links at this level.

Melbourne may not individually be bigger but they are certainly tougher. Harder.

Now the serious stuff: WTF was the coaching staff doing throwing a novice in vs the best. One who just going on my inexpert observations hasn't produced anything outstanding. Yet. Smacked to me of a hail Mary. I've had real reservations about Fagan since our finals debacle v GWS and this just about confirmed it.

Not a great fan of the Beast but just what has he done. Couldn't do much worse than a few Thursday night.

I still hold out hope, increasingly desperately, that the tide might turn. As Alan Jeans used to say the most important space on the field is between the footballers ears. Attitude is all.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[martinson]

Just my thoughts: our current best 22 won't win a Final, let alone a GF.

We've benefited from a softish run to date but it seems to me that whenever we run up against anything like a serious obstacle we fail. Basically if Neale isn't outstanding forget it. We are good front runners but when the going gets tough we're out of there. Quick.

Begins at HB. Not good enough, big enough, strong enough or tough enough. Not bagging just a few individuals but eg: McStay isn't consistent enough, what is going on in Harris scone, people must be watching a different Rayner than me, our HBs lack talent and run, and the Big O is at least one rung below the best. Only takes a few weakish links at this level.

Melbourne may not individually be bigger but they are certainly tougher. Harder.

Now the serious stuff: WTF was the coaching staff doing throwing a novice in vs the best. One who just going on my inexpert observations hasn't produced anything outstanding. Yet. Smacked to me of a hail Mary. I've had real reservations about Fagan since our finals debacle v GWS and this just about confirmed it.

Not a great fan of the Beast but just what has he done. Couldn't do much worse than a few Thursday night.

I still hold out hope, increasingly desperately, that the tide might turn. As Alan Jeans used to say the most important space on the field is between the footballers ears. Attitude is all.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

I'm taking it as a bullish sign that this seems to be the prevalent opinion out there now .

Team selections haven't really enhanced anyone's career to date , some guys have gone backwards tbh and last week was a complete brainfade.

But let's take a Mulligan and let the year play out before jumping to any rash conclusions.

We're still in the Top 4 . It's all in our hands now . We were flavor of the month amongst the scribes not all that long ago now we're done. We can turn it around if we're good enough ,easily.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Why do people labour under the delusion that the coach alone picks the side? Daly, Stone and the assistants would & should wear their share of responsibility over team selection.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I was hoping everyone might have had the flu or something. The fact that they were up to the max for the game and produced what they did last Thursday is pretty concerning.

Played footy much yourself? Ever played a game where the energy and excitement was at an all time high and still get an arse kicking? I have several times I remember let alone the ones I have forgotten.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Why do people labour under the delusion that the coach alone picks the side? Daly, Stone and the assistants would & should wear their share of responsibility over team selection.

That's because it's easier to pile on one person than to make it a group thing. Selection of the 22 is put together by all the line coach's, medical staff, and the football management team combined. Probably 10 people having a contribution each & every week.

 

[T Rick]

Can't say I have enjoyed reading BigFooty this week - one of the reasons I never read the Game Day thread is because of the highly emotive negativity that pervades losses - which seems to have spilled over on to Review and other threads this week. The pile on Fages in particular has been an eye opener. Jeez, I hope we get a win this week

 

[BRAB]

Played footy much yourself? Ever played a game where the energy and excitement was at an all time high and still get an arse kicking? I have several times I remember let alone the ones I have forgotten.

Would you say it's more likely then that being "up" for a game doesn't necessarily correlate to performance?

I'll defer to your superior football knowledge on this. Are there signs during a week in the leadup to a game that a team is going to produce a performance as bad as last Thursday or can coaches only really react to it mid game when players start dropping the effort off and missing tackles.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Would you say it's more likely then that being "up" for a game doesn't necessarily correlate to performance?

I'll defer to your superior football knowledge on this. Are there signs during a week in the leadup to a game that a team is going to produce a performance as bad as last Thursday or can coaches only really react to it mid game when players start dropping the effort off and missing tackles.

I would say that being "up" for a game is significantly better than being down or having a lack of enthusiasm for a contest. That said, it definitely doesn't guarantee a win.
I dont have superior knowledge of the game....sorry if it comes across as that because I dont profess to be an expert on anything let alone AFL.
All teams have bad performances in their season. Admittedly that was a shocker but no, nobody can predict an outcome of a game during the lead up in the week. AFL at the highest level has become a very complicated game where the smallest of things can make a big difference. Last Thursday (after the 1st quarter) we lost our way...it happens.

 

[On the quiet]

Speaking of actual tactical analysis, the Shinboner patreon page (which does footy analysis on all teams from an ex North melbourne employee) had an actual daming analysis of our second quarter.

It particularly focused on Melbourne exploiting poor Jimmy Tunstill at stoppages twice - once where Petracca outmaneouvers then just burns away from him, and another when he gets completely thrown off by Viney when attempting to tackle.

I'm sure he wasn't alone as basically no one stuck a tackle after Joe got Brayshaw in the 1st, but does call into question debuting someone to play wing against the dees.

The other key point was that our backline was under serious pressure from the smaller melbourne forward line that they usually put out - showed the clip of that awful sequence where we handballed backward into pressure only for payne's kick to get smothered.

I am all for young guys getting an opportunity, but in hindsight playing Jimmy against Dees at the G probably not ideal. Hate seeing blokes only getting one game but will probably miss out this week against the Dogs.

I thought Payne had a good game, his 1 v 1 was really good for a young player, but showed his inexperience in that 2nd Q when the ball was smothered and lead to a goal. Trapped against the side line should have tried to take a few steps back and get it over the sideline or as he was outside of the 50, take the man on. Unless Payne has a few really poor games the next few weeks, club backs him in and he gets consistent games and some valuable experience for the finals. We will need him against Carlton. Otherwise lets not be overly critical (not that this post is) of guys like him, Dev, Tom, Prior and to a lesser extent Fullarton and Madden if they are sporadically playing. None of them were first round picks, with a few of them 3rd rounders and rookie drafts.

On the replay there are instances when Viney just runs away from many of our players. I have said for months, we had a relatively easy first half draw, and our midfield and their two way running is too slow and teams like Melbourne, Dogs, Swans and Richmond would exploit that, on top of that, opposition tag Neal (such as Geelong) and we are in trouble. Yes I got a bit excited when we beat the Swans in Sydney.

This week is a must win, if we do, I believe we can still make top 4.

 

[davemc_lions]

Also I think we have some incredible talented players
Problem is a lot of them either hot or stone cold.
We struggled a few games to have players at least just break even week in and week out.
Been few players who I thought been at least warm most weeks

 

[scoman]

In regard to the revelations the boys were up and about, I wouldn't doubt that was the case. They certainly jumped out of the blocks and swarmed Melbourne in that first 10 minutes or so. It took Melbourne the rest of the first quarter to regroup. After that, though, Melbourne really went into overdrive and I think many of the guys were in disbelief of how quickly the game had turned. That's pretty demoralising. To have been focusing on a really important game for almost 2 weeks, have the start they would have spoken and dreamed about, only for the other side to soak it up and then smash them to pieces. Belief would have disappeared very quickly.

 

[Harris Specter]

In regard to the revelations the boys were up and about, I wouldn't doubt that was the case. They certainly jumped out of the blocks and swarmed Melbourne in that first 10 minutes or so. It took Melbourne the rest of the first quarter to regroup. After that, though, Melbourne really went into overdrive and I think many of the guys were in disbelief of how quickly the game had turned. That's pretty demoralising. To have been focusing on a really important game for almost 2 weeks, have the start they would have spoken and dreamed about, only for the other side to soak it up and then smash them to pieces. Belief would have disappeared very quickly.

Additionally, while we were on top we failed to capitalise and the margin was much closer than it needed to be at quarter time. This coupled with Melbourne's big resurgence took the whole team by surprise as well.