Autopsy 2022 Rd 18 Blues overpowered by classy Cats

[BM123]

If the comment (opinion) was that the umps impacted the scoreline and the scoreline is a subset of the result, then it's a fair observation as part of the whole discussion. The comment also suggested that there were other factors at play as well as the umps

So, we could lose Cripps, Weitering and Charlie before the game, it would superfluous to say, "the three late changes didn't impact the result but the scoreline" because we still had 3 replacements

Or...I got king hit and spent a week in hospital...it impacted my health but I didn't die

Umpires aren't professional/full time in the AFL and they operate under arbitrary guidance from our insane rules committee. Everyone in the AFL industry treats them with kids gloves though because there is a shortage of them. The AFL cares more about the "vibe" about the game than consistency when it comes to officiating.

You won't gain much from talking about them on Bigfooty though. People use them as scapegoats excessively for any loss and white knights will try to shame/invalidate anyone who even brings them up as a factor.

Personally I thought they were shit house on Saturday night but they rarely perform well in big night games. The ole Hawthorn v Geelong games years back used to have some real howlers.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Seriously need to return Walsh to the wing. He absolutely tore teams apart with his running last year, and played a few games where he won them himself.

We have enough centre square mids right now to put him out there.

Walsh played onball all of last year. Didn't play wing at all. Without Walsh our midfield becomes super slow. You need a running distributor type in your midfield for balance. Would also be a waste of his talents given we encourage our wingers to retain their width and play very defensively.

 

[Brackets]

Walsh gets it uncontested all over the ground. Slap any label on him you like, you'll get the same performance.

 

[Gethelred]

Walsh played onball all of last year. Didn't play wing at all. Without Walsh our midfield becomes super slow. You need a running distributor type in your midfield for balance. Would also be a waste of his talents given we encourage our wingers to retain their width and play very defensively.

No, he didn't. Teague put him back onball after Barker left; prior to that, he was on the wing almost every game.

Voss is already throwing Durdin and Fisher up around the stoppage to try and get some run, coupled with Saad, Cottrell providing some outside pace. The real problem is that LOB might have a decent top speed but doesn't accelerate fast enough and Newnes is about as fast as the rest of our mids. Putting Walsh on the wing eliminates his only issue - kicking whilst being tackled - and forces opposition to contend with him where he is strongest.

Walsh is good enough to maintain the defensive side of the game and still make offensive plays.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Seriously need to return Walsh to the wing. He absolutely tore teams apart with his running last year, and played a few games where he won them himself.

We have enough centre square mids right now to put him out there.

Walsh, Cerra, Doc, Saad, Fish, anyone that can run a bit. Stocker and Dow (yes, I know he has deficiencies, but so do all of our mids) in the midfield for a couple of games at least.
And only play 1 of Cottrell, LOB and Newnes in the same side until something clicks.

 

[Benaly28]

Just go fish around the Richmond board for 5-10 minutes and you’ll find umpteen more ridiculous comments than anything ever said on here!

The best is when one of them says that the tigers if they make it are playing the best footy of the rest of the top 8.Hilarious and dilutional.


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[Coops93]

This game for me didn't really show me all that much new that I've mentioned all season, which is disappointing in a way because I was hoping that Geelong would open us up in a way that we'd go aha! There's an area we can sort out! But really it was the same things we new to a point. Before the game I tipped a 25 point Geelong win so was about what I expected.

We are carrying too many fumbly, multiple touch players. How often did we simply overrun a ball under little-no pressure and the trailing Geelong player just mops up cleanly and runs off?

We lack natural goal scorers. Aside from Harry and Charlie we don't really have that many natural goalscorers. We don't have a goal kicking mid aside from Cripps but even with him it's hard work and isn't a natural trait. In the forwardline Durdin is a mid converted to small forward, Silvagni is essentially a resting ruckman these days, Fisher is much more up-field than he was (which is good mind you). Our avenues for converting offense is limited sans our keys.

Our inside 50s are rather rudimentary. Bomb and hope, rarely hit anyone up. It would've been difficult anyway with Geelongs smart defence but it's an ongoing issue against every opponent we play.

Games like this show us the limited capacity of players like Newnes. He's a B- player at best who does a job against average to poor teams but is exposed against good teams. You could say the same about all our wings at the moment so it's not just him, but worth noting we are still carrying a handful of guys like this. Wing is a real weakness for us.

Harry was towelled up by a kid but he didn't really have a chance as the delivery to him was pretty poor. Only really had 1 clean look and he dropped the mark. Aside from that the delivery didn't give him a chance.

I noticed Geelongs approach to absorbing tackles was different to ours. It's been discussed that we really try to break tackles, but what I noticed Geelong do is instead of try to break tackles they absorb the initial contact, stand up in the tackle and dish off the handball. On Saturday night that approach seemed the more effective.

Walsh is kind of the inverse of the modern midfielder - that being the attacking, goal kicking mid. He seems to do the opposite and is always in the backline lending a hand in providing ground pressure and running the ball out. If we're on the ground inside 50 you can be sure Walsh is around somewhere helping out. Doesn't get enough credit for that.

I thought Stocker looked alright, still don't see him as a defender though.

Motlop was excellent in the first qtr but clearly drifted out after that.

Weitering is still clearly not at his best but kept Hawkins to 1 goal which is an excellent effort - His other goal was that strange ruck contest where everyone just looked at him. Has Hawks number fairly comfortably and has shown it across a few games now.

We were definitely up for this game and weren't shown up in a big way, but we were shown how much better Geelong are. This was a real grind out game. We didn't roll over and made Geelong play honest for the whole game. The thing is, they did and just worked as hard as us for 4 qtrs but with the extra synergy worked us over. But it's something we can be proud of, even though they won by 5 goals they would've known walking off they just had 4 qtrs of hard work.

 

[CoachB]

Watch out for course Marshals if the find out Smith barracks for the Blues!

Got him home...awesome effort Cam Smith you little beauty.

 

[DangerousD]

This game for me didn't really show me all that much new that I've mentioned all season, which is disappointing in a way because I was hoping that Geelong would open us up in a way that we'd go aha! There's an area we can sort out! But really it was the same things we new to a point. Before the game I tipped a 25 point Geelong win so was about what I expected.

We are carrying too many fumbly, multiple touch players. How often did we simply overrun a ball under little-no pressure and the trailing Geelong player just mops up cleanly and runs off?

Is this not the big Aha?

Players who can’t stand up to the plate when the pressure goes up? It’s normal for players to have bad games but of players keep having these bad games in the important ones, it becomes an issue. This is the area to improve on.

 

[Coops93]

Is this not the big Aha?

Players who can’t stand up to the plate when the pressure goes up? It’s normal for players to have bad games but of players keep having these bad games in the important ones, it becomes an issue. This is the area to improve on.

Is it a big aha moment if it's already a known?

 

[DangerousD]

Is it just a poor generalisation or am I on the money when I say, nearly every Geelong player is huge?

I don’t have the heights and weights in front of me but it seems most them are very big guys, when I look at our defence, Weits is the only one I’d call big.

 

[DangerousD]

Is it a big aha moment if it's already a known?

We usually forget though after we play an easy game or an inferior opponent.

 

[Manhattanite]

Seriously need to return Walsh to the wing. He absolutely tore teams apart with his running last year, and played a few games where he won them himself.

We have enough centre square mids right now to put him out there.

I get the feeling (based on watching on the TV) that Walsh does play on the wing - and as a back man - and as a forward too. The only place I don’t see him play is the Ruck. He’s bloody everywhere all the time.




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[skadoosh]

 

[Accidental genius]

This game for me didn't really show me all that much new that I've mentioned all season, which is disappointing in a way because I was hoping that Geelong would open us up in a way that we'd go aha! There's an area we can sort out! But really it was the same things we new to a point. Before the game I tipped a 25 point Geelong win so was about what I expected.

We are carrying too many fumbly, multiple touch players. How often did we simply overrun a ball under little-no pressure and the trailing Geelong player just mops up cleanly and runs off?

We lack natural goal scorers. Aside from Harry and Charlie we don't really have that many natural goalscorers. We don't have a goal kicking mid aside from Cripps but even with him it's hard work and isn't a natural trait. In the forwardline Durdin is a mid converted to small forward, Silvagni is essentially a resting ruckman these days, Fisher is much more up-field than he was (which is good mind you). Our avenues for converting offense is limited sans our keys.

Our inside 50s are rather rudimentary. Bomb and hope, rarely hit anyone up. It would've been difficult anyway with Geelongs smart defence but it's an ongoing issue against every opponent we play.

Games like this show us the limited capacity of players like Newnes. He's a B- player at best who does a job against average to poor teams but is exposed against good teams. You could say the same about all our wings at the moment so it's not just him, but worth noting we are still carrying a handful of guys like this. Wing is a real weakness for us.

Harry was towelled up by a kid but he didn't really have a chance as the delivery to him was pretty poor. Only really had 1 clean look and he dropped the mark. Aside from that the delivery didn't give him a chance.

I noticed Geelongs approach to absorbing tackles was different to ours. It's been discussed that we really try to break tackles, but what I noticed Geelong do is instead of try to break tackles they absorb the initial contact, stand up in the tackle and dish off the handball. On Saturday night that approach seemed the more effective.

Walsh is kind of the inverse of the modern midfielder - that being the attacking, goal kicking mid. He seems to do the opposite and is always in the backline lending a hand in providing ground pressure and running the ball out. If we're on the ground inside 50 you can be sure Walsh is around somewhere helping out. Doesn't get enough credit for that.

I thought Stocker looked alright, still don't see him as a defender though.

Motlop was excellent in the first qtr but clearly drifted out after that.

Weitering is still clearly not at his best but kept Hawkins to 1 goal which is an excellent effort - His other goal was that strange ruck contest where everyone just looked at him. Has Hawks number fairly comfortably and has shown it across a few games now.

We were definitely up for this game and weren't shown up in a big way, but we were shown how much better Geelong are. This was a real grind out game. We didn't roll over and made Geelong play honest for the whole game. The thing is, they did and just worked as hard as us for 4 qtrs but with the extra synergy worked us over. But it's something we can be proud of, even though they won by 5 goals they would've known walking off they just had 4 qtrs of hard work.

SPOT ON!

 

[Coops93]

We usually forget though after we play an easy game or an inferior opponent.

That's a fair point. It comes from a good place I think of wanting to support our guys but it certainly happens.

 

[Coops93]

Is it just a poor generalisation or am I on the money when I say, nearly every Geelong player is huge?

I don’t have the heights and weights in front of me but it seems most them are very big guys, when I look at our defence, Weits is the only one I’d call big.

I typed it up but deleted it off my list above but I noticed it too. I was going to suggest it just looked like they were stronger than us.

 

[gbatman]

We were just beaten by a better side on the night, but you really take away a lot from a game like this against a side like this. They were a little bigger and stronger, they made better decisions, they were a bit more complete quality wise over the whole field. They looked a very good side.

For us to get to that level there were a few things that stood out. The wings are a major weakness for us, The lack of a third tall defender was glaring, in fact, coming up against a side like this in the future, if I had a fully fit list to pick from Marchbank and McGovern would be in the team with Weitering and Young.

We are also probably carrying a few too many of our reserves in the side at the moment as well.

As for our game style I thought we lacked bravery. When we had the run of the play we looked scared to go forward and to go inside 50. Sometimes long to the key forwards advantage is the go. There is nothing worse when you are one good long kick away from going deep inside 50 but you take short risky kicks and turn it over and we did that a fair bit, rather than take the game on and get it in there to our big targets. I thought they kept it simple, when we defended well they recognised that and just got it in there long and deep, we didn't we turned it over.

I spoke about this before regarding the backline, when Docherty and Saad don't have massive games we need another defender to step up and without Williams we haven't got that. We had no intercepting power down back without a third tall against two good key forwards Weitering and Young were occupied defending them so we lacked a hell of a lot of ability to score from rebounds which we needed as we weren't doing great in the clearances.

Our issue is if we don't do well in clearances we don't rebound well enough with the injuries we have had over the year to our defence. Quality is not there to take on the top sides down back.

Thought we were out coached. McKay and Curnow played deep a lot. We had no one as a true CHF. McKay needed to come up into that role to get himself into the game and take DeKoning away from the hotspot. We also struggled to move the ball forward at pace and this was part of it. Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of the ground with a solid defence in front of you and you just have to bang it long into that to a key forward with smalls at their feet and take the game on. We failed to do that, we failed to have the CHF there for the get out zone breaking kick and let their defence work. Held play up a lot, kicked short between 50 and the centreline and turned it over a lot.

Next time we face them 2-3 third tall defenders is a must which means we play both McGovern and Marchbank. Tom DeKoning forward is also a must, must stretch/match them for height, make Sam DeKoning defend and work up the ground. We must have someone play true CHF who is not Silvagni. Need to be more clear and predictable to our forwards with our ball movement, work really hard on our small forwards getting to contests and being front and centre. Must not hold up play for the zone too often, just need to go forward fast and straight, make them run a bit harder on the defence. It was too easy for them to defend with our slow play.

Walsh - He was really good, not his most influential game but he's an out and out star.

Docherty - Far from his best game, but he still played ok, had a few moments he would like back though.

Fisher - He was excellent, this for mine was one of the best games Fisher has played. Covered a lot of ground, was clean, found a lot of it and generated some run.

Hewett - He was ok, good contest for Hewett surrounded by similar opponents.

Newman - He has the odd bad game and he had one, he was ok but he made a good few mistakes.

Cerra - Another who was ok but we would like to see him find another level going into next season.

Hayes - He was fumbly early but I thought he played ok. It's clear he hasn't played with this group before, in time his positioning will get better as he gets used to how these guys play.

Kennedy - He has not been that great lately, he was ok but he's not having those big games like he was in the first half of the season. With his lack of pace and Hewetts lack of pace you could make a good argument for Dow. But he has his weak areas too.

Cripps - Well coached by Scott, Cripps well and truly had his colours lowered by his opponent. Out marked and out played I thought, Cripps is another who has dropped in form, he had a stinker.

Saad - Another great game, he's a brilliant player.

Silvagni - Thought he was really good, such a smart footballer, only problem is his overhead marking has been put away.

Stocker - He was ok, nothing great but held his own defensively, he's a fair way from being a two way running defender.

Young - I thought he went back into his shell a bit. Spoiling everything, even the balls he should be marking. Rather see him make mistakes going for marks than just play it safe and spoil everything. Can't beat good sides without rebounding from defence so taking those opportunities to intercept is crucial. Held Cameron to three goals so defensively was ok.

DeKoning - Held his own in the ruck, thought he was really good. He's come a long way over the season.

Cottrell - Looked like he had the job on Smith, was ok without being a stand out.

Newnes - awful decision making the whole game and execution not much better.

Motlop - Started well and faded out. He's going to be a good player. I feel our forwards suffered from indecisive forward entries.

Curnow - Looked our most dangerous forward.

Plowman - He's a good fill in but he is a fill in.

Durdin - He's going through a real lean period after a good start to the season. TOG is always low, not sure why. Fitness to run both ways maybe.

McKay - A bigger stronger DeKoning shaded him but it won't always happen. we weren't smart, needed to come up the ground and our long kicks were blind and ill directed.

Weitering - He's a fair way from his best, he looks to have lost strength, he'll get there.

 

[Sector 7G]

Walsh played onball all of last year. Didn't play wing at all. Without Walsh our midfield becomes super slow. You need a running distributor type in your midfield for balance. Would also be a waste of his talents given we encourage our wingers to retain their width and play very defensively.

Walsh won't be able to control himself and stay out wide on the wing he will just go a find the ball . This means we are not spreading the ground

People have been critical of Cotters game but I think that was just a function of us not using both sides of the ground (he seemed to be on the southern wing and we continually play on the members side. The guy ran 15.8kms more than anyone on the ground

 

[forever blue 1]

Just go fish around the Richmond board for 5-10 minutes and you’ll find umpteen more ridiculous comments than anything ever said on here!

They just had 2 weeks from hell
I’d say we could easily march
For example
What if we miss finals?
This place would be interesting

 

[Coops93]

Walsh played onball all of last year. Didn't play wing at all. Without Walsh our midfield becomes super slow. You need a running distributor type in your midfield for balance. Would also be a waste of his talents given we encourage our wingers to retain their width and play very defensively.

And made AA playing as an on baller. Though picked on a wing for the team because we know the AA team is 80% mids and then KPPs.

 

[tarczonandjane]

If you want an enjoyable way to look at how a premiership side evolves, go back and have a look at the Carlton v Richmond elimination final from 2013.

You’ll know a fair few names from the Tigers. Guys who became premiership stars. You’ll also find a few almost players, who got found out on the big stage. You’ll also see a side who looked overwhelmed when they couldn’t get the game on their terms. And a side which was youngish and inexperienced compared to its opponents.

At the time, it seemed like they’d never get it right. Four years later they were premiers.

So sit back and enjoy the game, but keep half an eye on the losing side too.

 

[forever blue 1]

Umpires aren't professional/full time in the AFL and they operate under arbitrary guidance from our insane rules committee. Everyone in the AFL industry treats them with kids gloves though because there is a shortage of them. The AFL cares more about the "vibe" about the game than consistency when it comes to officiating.

You won't gain much from talking about them on Bigfooty though. People use them as scapegoats excessively for any loss and white knights will try to shame/invalidate anyone who even brings them up as a factor.

Personally I thought they were s**t house on Saturday night but they rarely perform well in big night games. The ole Hawthorn v Geelong games years back used to have some real howlers.

If they weren’t so greedy and so forth
They’d pay them better accross boar vfl
WAFL
Etcetera
And then we wouldn’t have a shortage
As opposed to these a holes trying to justify every extra dollar they ‘earn’
It’s laughable
They do Jack shit
As useful as a policeman/woman

 

[marcmurphy3]

No, he didn't. Teague put him back onball after Barker left; prior to that, he was on the wing almost every game.

Voss is already throwing Durdin and Fisher up around the stoppage to try and get some run, coupled with Saad, Cottrell providing some outside pace. The real problem is that LOB might have a decent top speed but doesn't accelerate fast enough and Newnes is about as fast as the rest of our mids. Putting Walsh on the wing eliminates his only issue - kicking whilst being tackled - and forces opposition to contend with him where he is strongest.

Walsh is good enough to maintain the defensive side of the game and still make offensive plays.

Nah you are thinking of the previous year. Walsh was onball from round 1 last year. Averaged 22 CBAs per game before the bye which was 2nd for mids at our club behind Cripps. It was 2020 where he was wing first half of the year. Then he moved onball in the latter rounds and his form exploded.

I don't doubt he would be our best winger. Just think you would be robbing peter to pay Paul.

 

[Blue Chip Pass]

I haven't weighed into the commentary as yet.
Was at the game and was disappointed with a few key elements.
Yes, Geelong were the better drilled side, they played smart and patient footy and fed off our skill errors and mistakes.
I am surprised that no-one raised the issue of the wind.
I have never been to game that was that windy.
IMO, Carlton don't play well in the wet and now I would add in windy conditions.
McKay & Curnow misjudged the flight of the ball so many times.
They clearly prefer the roof over Marvel where they get a better read on the ball.
So many kicking errors. I think we kicked the ball out on the full 4-5 times.
Bad skill errors and slow tentative football, really lowered our colours.
Wasn't impressed with umpires, but that's not why we lost.
We should beat GWS & Adelaide.