Opinion Most overrated players from each team?

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Oct 16, 2003
5,488
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Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Lethal was the GOAT in the pre-professional footballer era - that's why the MVP is the Leith Matthews Trophy recipient

300 games 900 goals as a midfielder resting in the forward pocket

Great captain and leader - made others better

And i'm not a Hawks fan. My old man (over 70) will say the 3 freakiest players/matchwinners he saw were Polly Farmer, Lethal and Gazza Sr.

I never saw him but your dad is clearly wrong - cos Matthews didn't win any of the awards that didn't exist and those 900 goals from the midfield were easy :rolleyes:;)
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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You do know Leigh Matthews had a game where he had 41 disposals and kicked 11. This was against an Essendon team that made finals.

The next highest disposal winner on the ground was 26 and the next highest goal kicker only had 5. The whole Hawthorn team only has 300 disposals and he had 14% of them.

Dude was playing with cheat codes. If there was ever a game I wish they had detailed stats for its this one.

Look I get it but he couldn’t do that if we played today. Surely you understand this.


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Oct 16, 2003
5,488
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Murrumbeena
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Look I get it but he couldn’t do that if we played today. Surely you understand this.


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What you don't get is that nobody could, or did, do it in his day either.

Nobody has done something similar before, during or since. It was just as unheard of then as it is now - perhaps even moreso given how 25 possessions was thought of as "a big day" in Leigh's time and is stock standard now.

I fully understand it seems impossible now (I agree with that part) - what you are missing is that it seemed just as impossible back then.
 

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Jul 28, 2021
61
122
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
My 2c

Adelaide - Taylor Walker
Brisbane - Cam Rayner
Carlton - Patrick Cripps
Collingwood - Jordan De Goey
Essendon - Zach Merrett
Fremantle - Rory Lobbe
Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Gold Coast - Matt Rowell
GWS - Stephen Coniglio
Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell
Melbourne - Kysaiah Pickett
North Melbourne - Jaidyn Stephenson
Port Adelaide - Orazio Fantasia
Richmond - Dustin Martin
St Kilda - Brad Hill
Sydney - Isaac Heeney
West Coast - Tim Kelly
Western Bulldogs - Marcus Bontempelli
 
Sep 28, 2019
4,756
8,293
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Look I get it but he couldn’t do that if we played today. Surely you understand this.


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Couldn’t he? He stood well above his peers back then who all competed under the same conditions.

You couldn’t just throw Leigh Matthews from back then into the current game due to the massive advancement in professionalism and sports science across the league.

However had he grown up within that professional environment what would be stopping him? He’s already done it once before.

Either way you are proving Matthews is underrated not overrated.
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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Couldn’t he? He stood well above his peers back then who all competed under the same conditions.

You couldn’t just throw Leigh Matthews from back then into the current game due to the massive advancement in professionalism and sports science across the league.

However had he grown up within that professional environment what would be stopping him? He’s already done it once before.

Either way you are proving Matthews is underrated not overrated.

Team defence and tactics wouldn’t allow him too. Not sure why you guys don’t get scores were higher back then because of 1v1. Bags of 10+ was regular. You’ll be lucky to get more than 1 bag of 10 in the season now.


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Jun 7, 2007
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Team defence and tactics wouldn’t allow him too. Not sure why you guys don’t get scores were higher back then because of 1v1. Bags of 10+ was regular. You’ll be lucky to get more than 1 bag of 10 in the season now.


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About 15% less scoring now. Disposals are about 30% higher now though
 
Sep 28, 2019
4,756
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Hawthorn
Team defence and tactics wouldn’t allow him too. Not sure why you guys don’t get scores were higher back then because of 1v1. Bags of 10+ was regular. You’ll be lucky to get more than 1 bag of 10 in the season now.


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Full forwards where, midfielders weren’t. In this day and age of midfielders running around getting disposals he’d have huge numbers given he was already getting massive numbers when disposals where much lower than they are now.

And it’s not like he wouldn’t kick plenty of goals as well.
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
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Full forwards where, midfielders weren’t. In this day and age of midfielders running around getting disposals he’d have huge numbers given he was already getting massive numbers when disposals where much lower than they are now.

And it’s not like he wouldn’t kick plenty of goals as well.

Maybe it’ll help if you guys can visualise the comparisons. I’ve got highlights of a few players below and try to take notice of the speed of the game and skill of the kicks. Imo the other blokes have much better highlight reels and skill levels. Hopefully the the links work.














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Aug 3, 2020
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Maybe it’ll help if you guys can visualise the comparisons. I’ve got highlights of a few players below and try to take notice of the speed of the game and skill of the kicks. Imo the other blokes have much better highlight reels and skill levels. Hopefully the the links work.














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Highlights, FMD!!

To use an example from a different sport - Blake Griffin has much, much better highlights than Tim Duncan. Yet nobody in their right mind would ever select Blake over TD.

Peter Daicos has perhaps the best highlight reel in the game. Not the greatest player ever.
 
My 2c

Adelaide - Taylor Walker
Brisbane - Cam Rayner
Carlton - Patrick Cripps
Collingwood - Jordan De Goey
Essendon - Zach Merrett
Fremantle - Rory Lobbe
Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Gold Coast - Matt Rowell
GWS - Stephen Coniglio
Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell
Melbourne - Kysaiah Pickett
North Melbourne - Jaidyn Stephenson
Port Adelaide - Orazio Fantasia
Richmond - Dustin Martin
St Kilda - Brad Hill
Sydney - Isaac Heeney
West Coast - Tim Kelly
Western Bulldogs - Marcus Bontempelli
Please now do a list of each club’s players who are not overrated.
 
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Dynamics

Cancelled
Jul 23, 2007
6,791
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Catching up on this thread and I've never seen so many fish landed with one hook on a single expedition. Remarkable.
 

JoinDate

Premiership Player
Jul 16, 2021
3,775
5,782
AFL Club
Collingwood
My 2c

Adelaide - Taylor Walker
Brisbane - Cam Rayner
Carlton - Patrick Cripps
Collingwood - Jordan De Goey
Essendon - Zach Merrett
Fremantle - Rory Lobbe
Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Gold Coast - Matt Rowell
GWS - Stephen Coniglio
Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell
Melbourne - Kysaiah Pickett
North Melbourne - Jaidyn Stephenson
Port Adelaide - Orazio Fantasia
Richmond - Dustin Martin
St Kilda - Brad Hill
Sydney - Isaac Heeney
West Coast - Tim Kelly
Western Bulldogs - Marcus Bontempelli
No one rates Esava or Jaidyn...
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
My 2c

Adelaide - Taylor Walker
Brisbane - Cam Rayner
Carlton - Patrick Cripps
Collingwood - Jordan De Goey
Essendon - Zach Merrett
Fremantle - Rory Lobbe
Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Gold Coast - Matt Rowell
GWS - Stephen Coniglio
Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell
Melbourne - Kysaiah Pickett
North Melbourne - Jaidyn Stephenson
Port Adelaide - Orazio Fantasia
Richmond - Dustin Martin
St Kilda - Brad Hill
Sydney - Isaac Heeney
West Coast - Tim Kelly
Western Bulldogs - Marcus Bontempelli

Not trying to be one eyed but Dusty, really? People keeping saying he didn’t deserve his norm smiths ffs. If anything he’s underrated.


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Not trying to be one eyed but Dusty, really? People keeping saying he didn’t deserve his norm smiths ffs. If anything he’s underrated.


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His first and third absolutely. Middle one should have been Houli
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
Highlights, FMD!!

To use an example from a different sport - Blake Griffin has much, much better highlights than Tim Duncan. Yet nobody in their right mind would ever select Blake over TD.

Peter Daicos has perhaps the best highlight reel in the game. Not the greatest player ever.

Not sure what’s wrong with highlights. Do you not compare literal footage of each players best plays to help determine who’s better. Weird. Do you just go of vibe or something? Or did you just rewatch Lethal’s highlights and realise he’s not quite as good as you remember?


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Sorry but lethal played against plumbers mate, he was a 178cm 80kg midget and would get stomped on by professional 190cm 90kg + mids of today. The guy was a thug and knocked out anybody that was playing better than him on the day. GAJ, Judd, Dusty, Voss are all miles better it’s not close. If those guys played ‘rough’ against lethal he’d get paralysed.

I know your a hawks guy but cmon the amount of excuses you made for him not winning awards is amazing. So nobody got more than 1xAA back then yeah ok. He played in 3 GF when the norm Smith was around and didn’t win one, that’s poor for GOAT standards lol no excuses there he just wasn’t good enough. He got close to winning a Brownlow but he didn’t, umps didn’t have a problem giving votes to him. You are making it out like he was murdering people in the ground so he couldn’t get any votes.


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Matthews was better than those players.
 
Oct 16, 2003
5,488
9,775
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Not sure what’s wrong with highlights. Do you not compare literal footage of each players best plays to help determine who’s better. Weird. Do you just go of vibe or something? Or did you just rewatch Lethal’s highlights and realise he’s not quite as good as you remember?


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Firstly, the main difference with the highlights I watched was the quality of the footage rather than the quality of the skills. Matthews was still kicking goals from the boundary on the wrong foot, balking lots of players, goals over his head, etc. It's just so much harder to see - you can't appreciate it.

Secondly, of course highlights are not a way to judge a player. Whose highlights do you think are better - Jeremy Howe or Alex Rance? Howe's highlights would be a million times better. Whose highlights would be better - Chad Wingard or Michael Voss? Jake Stringer or Trent Cotchin? Daisy Thomas or Scott Pendlebury? Tony Modra or Tony Lockett? Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti or Sam Mitchell? Warrick Capper or Jason Dunstall?

Better highlights absolutely does not make someone a better player.
 

3rdgenbulldog

Senior List
Mar 14, 2022
166
301
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I love Sam Draper, but I think he's a tad overrated. Talented, and has some highlight reel plays, but still a long way off being a great ruckman.
I honestly feel like he is properly rated, apart from a few s**t opinions from journos who overrate him, bloke is exciting to watch and his celebration on the weekend when he snapped that goal was hilarious .
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
Firstly, the main difference with the highlights I watched was the quality of the footage rather than the quality of the skills. Matthews was still kicking goals from the boundary on the wrong foot, balking lots of players, goals over his head, etc. It's just so much harder to see - you can't appreciate it.

Secondly, of course highlights are not a way to judge a player. Whose highlights do you think are better - Jeremy Howe or Alex Rance? Howe's highlights would be a million times better. Whose highlights would be better - Chad Wingard or Michael Voss? Jake Stringer or Trent Cotchin? Daisy Thomas or Scott Pendlebury? Tony Modra or Tony Lockett? Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti or Sam Mitchell? Warrick Capper or Jason Dunstall?

Better highlights absolutely does not make someone a better player.

It’s a factor I’m not saying it’s the sole way. I think for sure highlights show peak skill but you can’t use it to find consistency.


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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
If professionalism = less goals, how come the 80s are better than the 60s when they were even more amateur?

It’s actually the coaching tactics that result in less goals. Imo players have never been more skilful across the league. Put them back in time and players like Hawkins and Riewoldt would’ve kicked nearly 900 goals by now.


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Oct 16, 2003
5,488
9,775
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
It’s a factor I’m not saying it’s the sole way. I think for sure highlights show peak skill but you can’t use it to find consistency.


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Well I can probably agree on this point. Also, I don't want to keep arguing about this (as most of my arguments have been about your methodology rather than actually comparing the players) but did you actually watch all the highlight vids you posted? I just watched the Leigh Matthews one and the Chris Judd one again and I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Judd had the superior 'peak skills' from those videos.

Matthews video features a goal from the centre square (much further than any of Judds), multiple speccies (Judd's had no marks and he was a poor mark in general), goals from the boundary on his opposite foot (as well as from the other boundary on his preferred), overhead goals, etc.

Without comparing them as players (I highly rate Judd) and just comparing the videos, Judd beats Matthews for raw pace. Matthews beats Judd for marking, contested marking, foot skills on his preferred, footskills on non-preferred, lateral movement, kicking distance, etc. In fact, whilst Judd is 'bursting away' a lot of the time, many of the disposals in the video posted are missing (or at the feet of) their target.

Edit: Actually, Judd had 1 mark in his highlight vid.
 
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