Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[stormbird]

There's more than one new witness IMO. One I think Channel 10 found where they produced some footage with no sound of a woman at the end of the gravel driveway of the house, pointing to the end of the balcony and moving her hands around in a sweeping motion as if she was telling what she saw. Sweeping the gravel is what it looked like. The other is someone the cops found, maybe as Awakening has suggested it's the truck driver.

No time to find the clip of indications this woman at the end of the driveway is a new witness atm but I think I posted it in here somewhere.

Is there any chance you're thinking of a clip from The Project linked yesterday? At about 2:15 minutes there's a shot of an almost-unrecognisable Lia Harris standing at the lower (gravel) driveway of FGM's. I think this was from a TV interview or special a few years ago (maybe a promotion for her podcast?) and she and a male reporter (Hugh Riminton, I think, but maybe not) were shown walking around the Benaroon Drive area.

The Project, Facebook Watch, 15 Nov 2021

 

[Lady O]

I'm not 100% convinced on the balcony fall theory, partly because of the other theories that have single witness evidence and also because hiding a body rather than calling 000 is not the expected human response. The timeline of events would also make it difficult to dispose of a body, but it does seem the police now consider the balcony fall as being highly likely, else they wouldn't have spent huge amounts of time and resources with the search late last year. They also specifically said they were looking for remains and this means they probably have some new credible evidence that is corroborated. IMO the new evidence could only have come from LT and this does fit into the time line of the new charges of child abuse, where LT would have been interviewed by police and could have provided this new information. The other new witness related to the sweeping of the gravel driveway might have been been from a passing vehicle that witnessed the covering up or removal of fall evidence. If WT did fall and broke his neck then it's possible that no blood or fluids were excreted. The question then becomes what is the most likely way in which WT was disposed and this opens up many possibilities, such as buried on the property, hidden somewhere in the house , such as the deep freezer and disposed of later, or dumped in the bush.

If you run through this list of possible scenarios, dumping WT in the bush off Batar Ck road seems risky as you would already be prepared for a huge search with dogs in the surrounding area. I still think that the trip down Batar Ck road by the FM was more likely to be dumping his shoes, which were not disposed of earlier and the FM later realised he would need to be wearing these if he wandered off. The safest solution would be to bury WT or hide his remains on the property and move them later when the police search had ended.

I still believe the neat pile of mulch or leaves on the lower driveway is the key. I think that whatever they were in (garden refuse bag) was emptied and the body placed in that for the trip down Batar Ck rd in FGM's car.

 

[Kurve]

Is there any chance you're thinking of a clip from The Project linked yesterday? At about 2:15 minutes there's a shot of an almost-unrecognisable Lia Harris standing at the lower (gravel) driveway of FGM's. I think this was from a TV interview or special a few years ago (maybe a promotion for her podcast?) and she and a male reporter (Hugh Riminton, I think, but maybe not) were shown walking around the Benaroon Drive area.

The Project, Facebook Watch, 15 Nov 2021

Could be and I just didn't recognise her.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

That's what I think is the most likely scenario in this sad case, and would account for why William's body, or William is yet to be found.

So who would they hand body to? And why was there no blood evidence or witness testimony of LT to accident or incident? If they had to arrange handover they'd also have to ring them too?.....and at short notice. Wouldn't that show up?

They simply didn't have time to hide a body by burial. Absent that it would be found. Yet it's nowhere close by.

Perhaps he was handed over alive? Then all boxes are ticked including RC witness. But what's happened since?

 

[Awakening]

I think if a parent or caregiver saw a child die in accident and their response was to cover it up, then they are not a typical normal person.

They are therefore not having the typical emotional response that most people would have.

They're either mentally ill, drug affected or have personality disorder ie sociopath, narcissist.

If a sociopath or narcissist (who walk amongst us appearing normal) saw this, then their response is not concern for the child, but for themselves. They don't have the normal human connection with others.

If WT was alive at 9.37, he could of been dead at 9.45. Foster father home at 10.30. She's got 45 minutes. That's ample time to dispose of his body. Especially if there was little to no blood. And if FF was involved the time is even longer.

He went missing in an area with so many potential hiding spots. The dog struggled to make it through the thick lantana and ultimately couldn't look everywhere. The dog handler and the tracker have both said they could of missed him.

I think FM gave herself a limited time frame because she knew she could fool FGM and LT a bit with the time but not hours and hours.

While I could never keep that secret from my partner, an abnormal person could. Some people lead double lives, have 2 families, hide their gambling addiction.

And I agree with 31150. I wouldn't expect a 4 year old who is not in her own home to separate the balcony from the verandah. To a 4 year old the outside bit with the decking is all verandah or all balcony. They should of gone onto the balcony and asked her what she calls it. My guess is she'd call it the balcony too.

 

[DropBearess]

I'm finding the "handover" theory really difficult to imagine although l appreciate where posters are coming from. Why would the FPs hand William over to anyone, whether he was alive or deceased? If deceased, we have more than one POl, but why? If alive, how could anyone in their right mind truly believe there could be a happy, unimpeded future somewhere for William. What about the documentation required to be an actual and valid person?

Whenever I try to process this case with the ever-changing order of events, l still want to know where FGM went that night, who drove her or if she drove herself. Which car was used? Who did she stay with and were they ever questioned? Surely she would have wanted to stay in her own home to support her family and wait for news? Does anyone have any links which might answer this?

My theory, for what it's worth is that William went roaring onto the balcony during their cuppas. FGM and FM were relieved to have some peace and didn't investigate. They may even have had a second cuppa, which would account for half-drunk tea. FM eventually checked William's whereabouts and found he had fallen over the balcony and was deceased. All foster parents are continually required to have First Aid so FM would have known it was too late. He could have been there for 30 minutes or more with no visible injuries or blood. I truly believe FM didn't raise the alarm
because she knew little William's body had evidence of previous injuries, probably at different times. We know now what FM is capable of. She just moved him quickly somewhere until she found FGM's car keys.

I think FGM's movements and or/her car on the afternoon/night may be the key. But she isn't here and was never seriously questioned.

I also firmly believe FF was not involved but is standing by his partner.

 

[fazacs1]

Yes, it is quite steep and the end of the balcony is very high off the ground. A 3YO jumping or falling from this height would likely sustain severe injuries, if not immediate death.

I'm not convinced this is what happened, but I am surprised that this scenario (fall from balcony) was not seriously considered or investigated by police in 2014 and 2015. There's a lot to consider:

• The entry to the balcony is exactly where William ran to when he left the verandah and disappeared from view.
• There was no child-proof barrier at the entry of the balcony (that can be seen in any of the footage or pictures, anyway).
• There was a bench seat (visible in several photos) near the end of the balcony which William could have easily climbed on to get access to the top rail and go over.
• William was unfamiliar with the layout of the house, - it was nine months since he had been there
• William was a boisterous, active boy, "jumping out of his skin/skull"
• William's sister's original verbatim testimony was that William "went off the balcony". When the police officer pointed to the verandah and asked, "What's this?", she replied "the balcony", so it is assumed she meant "verandah". But what if she really meant "balcony"?
• If William were to have fallen, FM and FGM could have been held responsible for failing to adequately supervise, and failing to provide a safe environment. I doubt an unsecured balcony like this would pass the FACS "safe environment for 3YO" checks.
• A fatal, or near-fatal fall might leave little or no physical evidence besides a few damaged plants. "William deliberately crashed his bike into the garden".

Of course, this scenario requires the body to be removed, and perhaps this is why police were subsequently focussed (for the first time seriously) on the FM drive to the riding school, and (for the first time) forensic examination of FGM car. It also leaves only a fairly short time for FM to find William, load him into FGM car, drive to riding school, hide or hand over his body, and return to the house before FF returned.

Yes, it is quite steep and the end of the balcony is very high off the ground. A 3YO jumping or falling from this height would likely sustain severe injuries, if not immediate death.

I'm not convinced this is what happened, but I am surprised that this scenario (fall from balcony) was not seriously considered or investigated by police in 2014 and 2015. There's a lot to consider:

• The entry to the balcony is exactly where William ran to when he left the verandah and disappeared from view.
• There was no child-proof barrier at the entry of the balcony (that can be seen in any of the footage or pictures, anyway).
• There was a bench seat (visible in several photos) near the end of the balcony which William could have easily climbed on to get access to the top rail and go over.
• William was unfamiliar with the layout of the house, - it was nine months since he had been there
• William was a boisterous, active boy, "jumping out of his skin/skull"
• William's sister's original verbatim testimony was that William "went off the balcony". When the police officer pointed to the verandah and asked, "What's this?", she replied "the balcony", so it is assumed she meant "verandah". But what if she really meant "balcony"?
• If William were to have fallen, FM and FGM could have been held responsible for failing to adequately supervise, and failing to provide a safe environment. I doubt an unsecured balcony like this would pass the FACS "safe environment for 3YO" checks.
• A fatal, or near-fatal fall might leave little or no physical evidence besides a few damaged plants. "William deliberately crashed his bike into the garden".

Of course, this scenario requires the body to be removed, and perhaps this is why police were subsequently focussed (for the first time seriously) on the FM drive to the riding school, and (for the first time) forensic examination of FGM car. It also leaves only a fairly short time for FM to find William, load him into FGM car, drive to riding school, hide or hand over his body, and return to the house before FF returned.

I can see this as a scenario, FM goes inside to make cuppa, leaving FGM watching children, FGM continues reading paper, William jumps off deck onto grass and up onto the balcony, has already been up a tree so jumps off (which could be why FM mentions him being up a tree and saying too high, did he even say that) the last sound was a roar (or was it a high pitched scream) FM back outside with the tea, (before or after scream)a few sips, where’s William? Goes around the side and finds him, ( not all falls have external damage, so no blood)the neighbours on that side of the house are away, FM wraps in blanket, bedspread, puts in FGM car travels down Batar Creek Road. At this point if she turns up Albert st it turns into Kendall Forest Rd, about 5 minutes away from FGM and it is secluded and IMO a place where you could hide a body. Keep going past the cemetery on google earth. Just another possibility

 

[fazacs1]

I'm not 100% convinced on the balcony fall theory, partly because of the other theories that have single witness evidence and also because hiding a body rather than calling 000 is not the expected human response. The timeline of events would also make it difficult to dispose of a body, but it does seem the police now consider the balcony fall as being highly likely, else they wouldn't have spent huge amounts of time and resources with the search late last year. They also specifically said they were looking for remains and this means they probably have some new credible evidence that is corroborated. IMO the new evidence could only have come from LT and this does fit into the time line of the new charges of child abuse, where LT would have been interviewed by police and could have provided this new information. The other new witness related to the sweeping of the gravel driveway might have been been from a passing vehicle that witnessed the covering up or removal of fall evidence. If WT did fall and broke his neck then it's possible that no blood or fluids were excreted. The question then becomes what is the most likely way in which WT was disposed and this opens up many possibilities, such as buried on the property, hidden somewhere in the house , such as the deep freezer and disposed of later, or dumped in the bush.

If you run through this list of possible scenarios, dumping WT in the bush off Batar Ck road seems risky as you would already be prepared for a huge search with dogs in the surrounding area. I still think that the trip down Batar Ck road by the FM was more likely to be dumping his shoes, which were not disposed of earlier and the FM later realised he would need to be wearing these if he wandered off. The safest solution would be to bury WT or hide his remains on the property and move them later when the police search had ended.

Rowley did say he didn’t search the manhole or the garage as it was locked and it would be to hard for WT to open, but if he was still on the property wouldn’t it be easier to put the shoes with him. But if FM had disposed of the body in FGM car in the bush surroundings, she may well have forgot to dispose of item and pulled over on the way back home on Batar. Do we actually know what direction she was heading when she was pulled over with head out of the window?

 

[Kurve]

I'm finding the "handover" theory really difficult to imagine although l appreciate where posters are coming from. Why would the FPs hand William over to anyone, whether he was alive or deceased? If deceased, we have more than one POl, but why? If alive, how could anyone in their right mind truly believe there could be a happy, unimpeded future somewhere for William. What about the documentation required to be an actual and valid person?

Whenever I try to process this case with the ever-changing order of events, l still want to know where FGM went that night, who drove her or if she drove herself. Which car was used? Who did she stay with and were they ever questioned? Surely she would have wanted to stay in her own home to support her family and wait for news? Does anyone have any links which might answer this?

My theory, for what it's worth is that William went roaring onto the balcony during their cuppas. FGM and FM were relieved to have some peace and didn't investigate. They may even have had a second cuppa, which would account for half-drunk tea. FM eventually checked William's whereabouts and found he had fallen over the balcony and was deceased. All foster parents are continually required to have First Aid so FM would have known it was too late. He could have been there for 30 minutes or more with no visible injuries or blood. I truly believe FM didn't raise the alarm
because she knew little William's body had evidence of previous injuries, probably at different times. We know now what FM is capable of. She just moved him quickly somewhere until she found FGM's car keys.

I think FGM's movements and or/her car on the afternoon/night may be the key. But she isn't here and was never seriously questioned.

I also firmly believe FF was not involved but is standing by his partner.

Can't quite get my head around the involvement of another party either. Whoever's responsible for William's disappearance imo, did it alone and that's why the case hasn't been solved. They've told nobody what they did.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'm finding the "handover" theory really difficult to imagine although l appreciate where posters are coming from. Why would the FPs hand William over to anyone, whether he was alive or deceased? If deceased, we have more than one POl, but why? If alive, how could anyone in their right mind truly believe there could be a happy, unimpeded future somewhere for William. What about the documentation required to be an actual and valid person?

Whenever I try to process this case with the ever-changing order of events, l still want to know where FGM went that night, who drove her or if she drove herself. Which car was used? Who did she stay with and were they ever questioned? Surely she would have wanted to stay in her own home to support her family and wait for news? Does anyone have any links which might answer this?

My theory, for what it's worth is that William went roaring onto the balcony during their cuppas. FGM and FM were relieved to have some peace and didn't investigate. They may even have had a second cuppa, which would account for half-drunk tea. FM eventually checked William's whereabouts and found he had fallen over the balcony and was deceased. All foster parents are continually required to have First Aid so FM would have known it was too late. He could have been there for 30 minutes or more with no visible injuries or blood. I truly believe FM didn't raise the alarm
because she knew little William's body had evidence of previous injuries, probably at different times. We know now what FM is capable of. She just moved him quickly somewhere until she found FGM's car keys.

I think FGM's movements and or/her car on the afternoon/night may be the key. But she isn't here and was never seriously questioned.

I also firmly believe FF was not involved but is standing by his partner.

I agree that previous evidence of abuse injuries is the only true valid reason you may not report a deadly accident. Even then you could always argue it was caused by bio parents than FPs. The BP have a history of DV so it would be assumed the injuries were from them. I think non reporting is a drastic and somewhat illogical step to take even with injury evidence. But you can't rule it out entirely.

If such an accident occurred you would think they would take sufficient time to hide body further away. Yet the timeline for 000 was quite fast in terms of these cases and becomes a fact indicating they didn't take enough time and therefore may not have happened that way. You wouldn't limit it/ yourself

 

[Awakening]

I agree that previous evidence of abuse injuries is the only true valid reason you may not report a deadly accident. Even then you could always argue it was caused by bio parents than FPs. The BP have a history of DV so it would be assumed the injuries were from them. I think non reporting is a drastic and somewhat illogical step to take even with injury evidence. But you can't rule it out entirely.

If such an accident occurred you would think they would take sufficient time to hide body further away. Yet the timeline for 000 was quite fast in terms of these cases and becomes a fact indicating they didn't take enough time and therefore may not have happened that way. You wouldn't limit it/ yourself

A lot of the true crime stuff I follow has killers hiding the body close to their home, workplace or crime scene. Not sure why that is.

 

[Awakening]

It's possible the truck driver saw FM twice but she's only aware of him seeing her on Batar Creek Road.

 

[Lady O]

I agree that previous evidence of abuse injuries is the only true valid reason you may not report a deadly accident. Even then you could always argue it was caused by bio parents than FPs. The BP have a history of DV so it would be assumed the injuries were from them. I think non reporting is a drastic and somewhat illogical step to take even with injury evidence. But you can't rule it out entirely.

If such an accident occurred you would think they would take sufficient time to hide body further away. Yet the timeline for 000 was quite fast in terms of these cases and becomes a fact indicating they didn't take enough time and therefore may not have happened that way. You wouldn't limit it/ yourself

I think all the visits with the bio parents were out in public and supervised. However, given the recent DV charges against the fosters, you can't rule this out.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think all the visits with the bio parents were out in public and supervised. However, given the recent DV charges against the fosters, you can't rule this out.

True. And he was taken early to foster care too. There was that 6 week period where they abducted him though.

 

[31550]

Can't quite get my head around the involvement of another party either. Whoever's responsible for William's disappearance imo, did it alone and that's why the case hasn't been solved. They've told nobody what they did.

Someone acting alone means either FM or an opportunistic abduction?
FM doesn't seem to have had time or opportunity to dispose of the body by herself, never to be found.
And an opportunistic abduction seems highly unlikely given the remote location and short timeframe.

I am just wondering if the FM would have had time to drive William's body to a property where she knew there was a dumpster or rubbish bin or skip, which was due to be collected on the Friday? I know police searched rubbish bins in Benaroon, but did they also do an extensive sweep along Batar Ck Rd?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Someone acting alone means either FM or an opportunistic abduction?
FM doesn't seem to have had time or opportunity to dispose of the body by herself, never to be found.
And an opportunistic abduction seems highly unlikely given the remote location and short timeframe.

I am just wondering if the FM would have had time to drive William's body to a property where she knew there was a dumpster or rubbish bin or skip, which was due to be collected on the Friday? I know police searched rubbish bins in Benaroon, but did they also do an extensive sweep along Batar Ck Rd?

So we need:

• FM knowing of a dumpster
• FM knowing when it was to be collected
• emptying of that dumpster and a body falling out wouldn't get detected
• landfill or compacting wouldn't also be detection

Remote possibility imo.

 

[NRL Fan]

Someone acting alone means either FM or an opportunistic abduction?
FM doesn't seem to have had time or opportunity to dispose of the body by herself, never to be found.
And an opportunistic abduction seems highly unlikely given the remote location and short timeframe.

I am just wondering if the FM would have had time to drive William's body to a property where she knew there was a dumpster or rubbish bin or skip, which was due to be collected on the Friday? I know police searched rubbish bins in Benaroon, but did they also do an extensive sweep along Batar Ck Rd?

Bin collection for the area is on Tuesday. I looked at this ages ago to see if WT might have accidently climbed into a bin and was collected.

https://www.pmhc.nsw.gov.au/files/assets/public/document-files/residents/waste/surrounding-areas-street-list.pdf

 

[31550]

I'm finding the "handover" theory really difficult to imagine although l appreciate where posters are coming from. Why would the FPs hand William over to anyone, whether he was alive or deceased? If deceased, we have more than one POl, but why? If alive, how could anyone in their right mind truly believe there could be a happy, unimpeded future somewhere for William. What about the documentation required to be an actual and valid person?

Whenever I try to process this case with the ever-changing order of events, l still want to know where FGM went that night, who drove her or if she drove herself. Which car was used? Who did she stay with and were they ever questioned? Surely she would have wanted to stay in her own home to support her family and wait for news? Does anyone have any links which might answer this?

My theory, for what it's worth is that William went roaring onto the balcony during their cuppas. FGM and FM were relieved to have some peace and didn't investigate. They may even have had a second cuppa, which would account for half-drunk tea. FM eventually checked William's whereabouts and found he had fallen over the balcony and was deceased. All foster parents are continually required to have First Aid so FM would have known it was too late. He could have been there for 30 minutes or more with no visible injuries or blood. I truly believe FM didn't raise the alarm
because she knew little William's body had evidence of previous injuries, probably at different times. We know now what FM is capable of. She just moved him quickly somewhere until she found FGM's car keys.

I think FGM's movements and or/her car on the afternoon/night may be the key. But she isn't here and was never seriously questioned.

I also firmly believe FF was not involved but is standing by his partner.

A "planned handover" fits the timeline. But if it was a planned handover, how did FM know in advance that FF would be absent from the house? And how could she be confident that FGM and LT would not notice anything, or that neighbours would not see her with William in FGM car, or even that she could get access to FGM car without FGM being suspicious?

If FM planned a handover, it would be relatively easy to take William for a walk along one of the remote paths leading away from the house, where they could meet up with someone with a 4WD to make their way via the back roads out of Kendall. But it would be best to do this late afternoon, and return to the house to raise the alarm some time later, saying William had 'wandered off' and she couldn't find him (getting dark). It doesn't make sense to do it early in the morning. There are too many people around, and it wouldn't make sense to dress him in bright colours. I don't believe there was a 'planned handover', because if it was planned, it would have been executed without all the other 'loose ends'. Unless the drive down Batar Creek road was some planned, devious 'diversion' tactic?

And, most importantly, if it was a planned handover, where is William now?

 

[31550]

Bin collection for the area is on Tuesday. I looked at this ages ago to see if WT might have accidently climbed into a bin and was collected.

https://www.pmhc.nsw.gov.au/files/assets/public/document-files/residents/waste/surrounding-areas-street-list.pdf

Thanks for that. Usually councils have different collection days for different areas. Could a nearby area have had a different collection day? I see Bonny Hills gets collected Fridays - but that would be too far for FM to have driven and she would have been seen on CCTV. What about non-council bins, e.g. commercial / building / green waste skips?

 

[Liandra]

Yes, it is quite steep and the end of the balcony is very high off the ground. A 3YO jumping or falling from this height would likely sustain severe injuries, if not immediate death.

I'm not convinced this is what happened, but I am surprised that this scenario (fall from balcony) was not seriously considered or investigated by police in 2014 and 2015. There's a lot to consider:

• The entry to the balcony is exactly where William ran to when he left the verandah and disappeared from view.
• There was no child-proof barrier at the entry of the balcony (that can be seen in any of the footage or pictures, anyway).
• There was a bench seat (visible in several photos) near the end of the balcony which William could have easily climbed on to get access to the top rail and go over.
• William was unfamiliar with the layout of the house, - it was nine months since he had been there
• William was a boisterous, active boy, "jumping out of his skin/skull"
• William's sister's original verbatim testimony was that William "went off the balcony". When the police officer pointed to the verandah and asked, "What's this?", she replied "the balcony", so it is assumed she meant "verandah". But what if she really meant "balcony"?
• If William were to have fallen, FM and FGM could have been held responsible for failing to adequately supervise, and failing to provide a safe environment. I doubt an unsecured balcony like this would pass the FACS "safe environment for 3YO" checks.
• A fatal, or near-fatal fall might leave little or no physical evidence besides a few damaged plants. "William deliberately crashed his bike into the garden".

Of course, this scenario requires the body to be removed, and perhaps this is why police were subsequently focussed (for the first time seriously) on the FM drive to the riding school, and (for the first time) forensic examination of FGM car. It also leaves only a fairly short time for FM to find William, load him into FGM car, drive to riding school, hide or hand over his body, and return to the house before FF returned.

A few points...

While it's been repeated in the media that FGM car had not been examined previously, it had been examined in the days after William disappeared. Cars were returned when nothing incriminating was found. It's unknown how thorough the examination was, however Forensic Services Group were involved from the start of the investigation.

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Examining those cars at the time would've been procedure, especially once the homicide squad became involved. 7 years is a long time in forensics, police might've been having another crack at the car using new techniques.

Jubelin has said that the balcony theory was investigated, and IMO earlier investigators would've looked at this theory also. As much as the early investigation has been criticised, I think once the SF was established (day 4?) homicide investigators would've looked at all the obvious possibilities.

 

[Lady O]

Thanks for that. Usually councils have different collection days for different areas. Could a nearby area have had a different collection day? I see Bonny Hills gets collected Fridays - but that would be too far for FM to have driven and she would have been seen on CCTV. What about non-council bins, e.g. commercial / building / green waste skips?

If it was collection day, the bins in the estate would have all been put out the night before. Therefore most of them, empty or not, would still be in the street. There was none in any photos taken on that morning.

 

[zedx]

A "planned handover" fits the timeline. But if it was a planned handover, how did FM know in advance that FF would be absent from the house? And how could she be confident that FGM and LT would not notice anything, or that neighbours would not see her with William in FGM car, or even that she could get access to FGM car without FGM being suspicious?

If FM planned a handover, it would be relatively easy to take William for a walk along one of the remote paths leading away from the house, where they could meet up with someone with a 4WD to make their way via the back roads out of Kendall. But it would be best to do this late afternoon, and return to the house to raise the alarm some time later, saying William had 'wandered off' and she couldn't find him (getting dark). It doesn't make sense to do it early in the morning. There are too many people around, and it wouldn't make sense to dress him in bright colours. I don't believe there was a 'planned handover', because if it was planned, it would have been executed without all the other 'loose ends'. Unless the drive down Batar Creek road was some planned, devious 'diversion' tactic?

And, most importantly, if it was a planned handover, where is William now?

Agree - IMO a planned handover is just too complicated and unrealistic and I feel the same way regarding FM disposing of his body for what ever reason. I dont see how she could have successfully disposed of him such as short time frame - never to be found. The simplest explanation is a random abduction by a local or a passer by - Occam's Razor ?

 

[31550]

A few points...

While it's been repeated in the media that FGM car had not been examined previously, it had been examined in the days after William disappeared. Cars were returned when nothing incriminating was found. It's unknown how thorough the examination was, however Forensic Services Group were involved from the start of the investigation.

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Examining those cars at the time would've been procedure, especially once the homicide squad became involved. 7 years is a long time in forensics, police might've been having another crack at the car using new techniques.

Jubelin has said that the balcony theory was investigated, and IMO earlier investigators would've looked at this theory also. As much as the early investigation has been criticised, I think once the SF was established (day 4?) homicide investigators would've looked at all the obvious possibilities.

I think the investigation was very poorly handled in the first few days. The focus was on only two possibilities: William wandered off and got lost or came to grief, OR William was taken by (connections of) the bio parents.
Within a few hours, police were knocking on the doors of the bio parents, and also, a large search party had been established.
But look at was NOT done immediately:

• Street was not cordoned off, no road blocks set up
• FGM property was not secured or properly treated as a crime scene - people were allowed to trample all over the place
• FM and FF were allowed to leave the house without full statements being taken.
• No forensic analysis of FGM and FF vehicles
• No forensic investigation of FF, FGM or FM for injury / wounds etc. - including FM hand injury
• Phones and electronic devices were not immediately taken from fosters, nor were they monitored
• FM, FGM and LT allowed to travel to Port Macquarie in FGM car unsupervised
• No immediate surveillance of foster family
• No forensic investigation of balcony or garden bed (e.g. luminol)
• Phone calls to house from Savage and Owen were not followed up immediately
• Locked shed and roof cavity of FGM property not searched
• and of course, ... no details about the appearance of the fosters, their attire, or their vehicles was publicly released, so no witnesses could say whether they had been seen anywhere on the day.

In my opinion if some or all of the above had been done immediately, William would have been found by now.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

A "planned handover" fits the timeline. But if it was a planned handover, how did FM know in advance that FF would be absent from the house? And how could she be confident that FGM and LT would not notice anything, or that neighbours would not see her with William in FGM car, or even that she could get access to FGM car without FGM being suspicious?

If FM planned a handover, it would be relatively easy to take William for a walk along one of the remote paths leading away from the house, where they could meet up with someone with a 4WD to make their way via the back roads out of Kendall. But it would be best to do this late afternoon, and return to the house to raise the alarm some time later, saying William had 'wandered off' and she couldn't find him (getting dark). It doesn't make sense to do it early in the morning. There are too many people around, and it wouldn't make sense to dress him in bright colours. I don't believe there was a 'planned handover', because if it was planned, it would have been executed without all the other 'loose ends'. Unless the drive down Batar Creek road was some planned, devious 'diversion' tactic?

And, most importantly, if it was a planned handover, where is William now?

My thoughts are pretty well known by now. Not going to go over them again and again to everyones chagrin but I'll answer specific questions

• walk a track with him and he not return. Risk if seen. What have you done with him. car needed
• back road dirt track. Flat tyre risk
• morning v afternoon. What were abductors needs?
• Spiderman. Dominant child you don't want an argument with on last day
• too many people? Not really. It was a small town weekday quiet street. Exactly the choice you'd want. Perhaps why it was chosen. They just drew too much attention driving as they did past RC
• two car trips one drop off one cover up

 

[31550]

My thoughts are pretty well known by now. Not going to go over them again and again to everyones chagrin but I'll answer specific questions

• walk a track with him and he not return. Risk if seen. What have you done with him. car needed
• back road dirt track. Flat tyre risk
• morning v afternoon. What were abductors needs?
• Spiderman. Dominant child you don't want an argument with on last day
• too many people? Not really. It was a small town weekday quiet street. Exactly the choice you'd want. Perhaps why it was chosen. They just drew too much attention driving as they did past RC
• two car trips one drop off one cover up

• walk a track with him and he not return. Risk if seen. What have you done with him. car needed

No risk if seen - we are going for a walk. It's a thing people do.

• back road dirt track. Flat tyre risk

Flat tyres are pretty rare on dirt tracks. This is MORE of a risk if the handover was on a main road like Batar Ck Rd

• morning v afternoon. What were abductors needs?

There is no abductor, it's a handover. The needs of the handover person are not to be seen and not to get caught. Hence late afternoon when it's getting dark would be better than mid-morning.

• Spiderman. Dominant child you don't want an argument with on last day

Maybe that happened and FM gave in. Or maybe the plan was to leave him in a certain location and the Spiderman outfit was a way of making sure another child was not taken by mistake.

• too many people? Not really. It was a small town weekday quiet street. Exactly the choice you'd want. Perhaps why it was chosen. They just drew too much attention driving as they did past RC

It's a popular walking area. Most people go for walks in the morning and early afternoon. But FGM property borders on National Park, so it's very accessible to FM and could explain going for a very short walk late in the afternoon.

• two car trips one drop off one cover up

Get it right on the first trip and only one trip is required.