Roast 6 from 17. Despite Momentum We are REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY s**t - Warning includes club criticisms

[adelaidecrows]

We need to remember he has very low TOG, I suspect he’s still developing an AFL tank. Give him a few more pre seasons and I think we’ll see his output increase significantly.

The thing that’s impressed me is he’s shown the ability to have an impact on the inside and outside.


why do you not give us any credit for the way we played having an influence on how Carlton played?

We played well but Carlton played just as poor. You cant just keep gifting blind credit because we won and not acknowledge Carlton never showed up. There are two teams and we weren't that impressive. High pressure and high endeavour can make up for plenty of short falls.

 

[adelaidecrows]

So the youngest side in the comp & rebuilding is expected to be in the same ball park as the top 4 sides & legit contenders or its a fail?

I never said that. Its just putting it into perspective. We beat a team on the slide. If we played any and I mean any side other than West Coast and North Melbourne the way we did, we would have been pantsed. The high endeavour and exuberance got us over the line against Carlton and they played poor, I mean, I am not sure we would have beaten a quality side who could absorb what we threw.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

"But I don't even work here..."

"that's what makes this so difficult"

 

[Soggy2112]

We played well but Carlton played just as poor. You cant just keep gifting blind credit because we won and not acknowledge Carlton never showed up. There are two teams and we weren't that impressive. High pressure and high endeavour can make up for plenty of short falls.

And you can’t blindly dismiss a good team performance because the opposition wasn’t at their best.

High pressure and high endeavour are habits. Contested possession and tackling are skills. Both things this team has clearly developed well. The numbers show that.

Obviously there are short falls, but no one is denying that. My point (see my reply to Sanders above) is that the numbers show there has been clear improvement this season, and there is clearly plenty of AFL standard talent in the group, as well as a good number of A graders.

 

[adelaidecrows]

And you can’t blindly dismiss a good team performance because the opposition wasn’t at their best.

High pressure and high endeavour are habits. Contested possession and tackling are skills. Both things this team has clearly developed well. The numbers show that.

Obviously there are short falls, but no one is denying that. My point (see my reply to Sanders above) is that the numbers show there has been clear improvement this season, and there is clearly plenty of AFL standard talent in the group, as well as a good number of A graders.

I'm give credit where its due and I still give credit for the win to Nicks. A win is a win is a win. I just think those wins can easily wall paper over the cracks if we dont put it into perspective and view the season as a body of work.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Chappy and that board were threatened with being brought under the bus with Trigg. The AFL accepted the 1 year of draft penalties and Trigg being sacked. Trigg then threatened to bring the board with him so they negotiated his suspension and extra year of draft picks.

Not being a smart ass, genuinely interested - has anyone that's been vocal in here earlier in the year had a change of heart on where things are at as the season has progressed? Obviously our last 3 wins feature 2 bottom dwellers though I did think the west coast win was better than it looks on paper.

I was starting to lose the faith but some of our young guys improvement(Fog, Berry, Soligo), moving Keays out as a midfield mainstay, Murray taking some nice steps and Nick's backing the young guys more has me feeling more settled.

My biggest gripe has been the rigid selection policy. We have seen what Worrell has been able to produce once deodee got injured.

I think Newchurch should have been given some games in the seniors also. He is quite slick when he’s on and I reckon an afl game in front of home crowd could have unlocked a bit more.

I’m worried guys like Taylor, Pedlar, Gollant, Nankervis, Cook will wallow in the 2’s next when the opportunity comes to drop an out of form player comes.

 

[kirky]

This is very interesting

 

[Sanders]

So do you think we have progressed this season?

Do you?

 

[Sanders]

Other than the Roos both Carlton and West Coast had plenty to play for

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What did West Coast have to play for?

 

[kirky]

Do you?

Yes.

We have had a couple of bad games - GWS at home (this now seems an annual tradition), Carlton at Marvel and Hawks at Marvel. Other than that we have shown good signs and growth in a number of players.

 

[kirky]

What did West Coast have to play for?

Spoiling rights?

 

[VictorianCrow85]

My biggest gripe has been the rigid selection policy. We have seen what Worrell has been able to produce once deodee got injured.

I think Newchurch should have been given some games in the seniors also. He is quite slick when he’s on and I reckon an afl game in front of home crowd could have unlocked a bit more.

I’m worried guys like Taylor, Pedlar, Gollant, Nankervis, Cook will wallow in the 2’s next when the opportunity comes to drop an out of form player comes.

Yep I agree that's probably been the biggest disappointment overall for me (selection policy).

One thing I do think is that Nicks has displayed he learns, maybe he doesn't react as fast as we all want here but over year you look at guys like Brown, ROB, Crouch etc who we did all cry out for to be dropped and ultimately they all were at varying points in time. Again it's a shame it takes those extra weeks to act but at least eventually it comes. Another one is the Keays midfield role, he'd lost his impact, took too long to adjust but did eventually get there. Towards the end of the year he's certainly backed the younger guys in for more important roles. Football coaches in general over prioritise experience imo, definitely this element doesn't seem unique to our club or coach.

Certainly not saying he's perfect just that he does seem to be learning and improving to a certain extent. Whether it's enough ultimately in the long run only time will tell.

The one thing I think we should all get behind is that he has done a good job in rebuilding our culture & getting the playing group up most weeks to have a crack even if we aren't good enough. Even if he ultimately fails to take us forward as far as we like he's still done the thing we needed most at that point in time.

I'd have been very happy to see Newchurch get given a block of 3 games and just told to go show us what you've got without fear of being dropped. We dont as a club give our young kids enough opportunity regularly, doesn't seem to matter who is coach.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Do you?

Its a 2 part answer.

Yes we progressed as far as natural player development due to games.
Nicks ability to hide his coaching ability behind the rebuild is diminishing and there are some concerning game day trends i.e. his obsession to defend games to death first and not take chances.

 

[Mego Red]

What did West Coast have to play for?

Zero advantage in losing for them.

Absolutely wanted to win a few late, for both football reasons and people keeping their jobs

 

[Mego Red]

Yep I agree that's probably been the biggest disappointment overall for me (selection policy).

One thing I do think is that Nicks has displayed he learns, maybe he doesn't react as fast as we all want here but over year you look at guys like Brown, ROB, Crouch etc who we did all cry out for to be dropped and ultimately they all were at varying points in time. Again it's a shame it takes those extra weeks to act but at least eventually it comes. Another one is the Keays midfield role, he'd lost his impact, took too long to adjust but did eventually get there. Towards the end of the year he's certainly backed the younger guys in for more important roles. Football coaches in general over prioritise experience imo, definitely this element doesn't seem unique to our club or coach.

Certainly not saying he's perfect just that he does seem to be learning and improving to a certain extent. Whether it's enough ultimately in the long run only time will tell.

The one thing I think we should all get behind is that he has done a good job in rebuilding our culture & getting the playing group up most weeks to have a crack even if we aren't good enough. Even if he ultimately fails to take us forward as far as we like he's still done the thing we needed most at that point in time.

I'd have been very happy to see Newchurch get given a block of 3 games and just told to go show us what you've got without fear of being dropped. We dont as a club give our young kids enough opportunity regularly, doesn't seem to matter who is coach.

I think we've given an enormous amount of opportunities to kids this year. That's got to have been a strength.

We dropped Brown and Crouch and saw Sloane and Seedsman lose the year to injury - and we didn't panic and pick more experience.

I know that fans would love see all the kids play, but it's hard to argue with how sincerely the club had committed to giving opportunities to youth.

 

[Mego Red]

Its a 2 part answer.

Yes we progressed as far as natural player development due to games.
Nicks ability to hide his coaching ability behind the rebuild is diminishing and there are some concerning game day trends i.e. his obsession to defend games to death first and not take chances.

I think the massive improvement in our forwards and in our attacking structures has to be seen as a positive.

 

[Mego Red]

I wasn't expecting this much from Soligo, Berry, Fogarty, Worrell, Parnell or Hinge.

I'd hoped to see more from Schoenberg, McAsey, Cook and Pedlar.

It's probably a B- year.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think the massive improvement in our forwards and in our attacking structures has to be seen as a positive.

True, but we did play some very average teams. The game against Port next week will provide some sort of a guide as to our improvement.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

I think we've given an enormous amount of opportunities to kids this year. That's got to have been a strength.

We dropped Brown and Crouch and saw Sloane and Seedsman lose the year to injury - and we didn't panic and pick more experience.

I know that fans would love see all the kids play, but it's hard to argue with how sincerely the club had committed to giving opportunities to youth.

Yes that is true to a fair extent, I don't disagree. I'm not one of the people here who has major gripes, there's just some things I think that could have been done better.

Examples:

• Persisted with Keays/Laird/Crouch far too much which forced guys like Hately out to the wing, that's not good for him or for us as we dont know if he can make it. Signs weren't bad when he was in the actual midfield role but needed a proper sample.
• Worrell is the really mystifying one, why we continued to back an injured & out of form Doedee for a few extra weeks instead of giving him a go? That one is pretty inexcusable based off what we've seen.

All in all I'm pretty content with this year but doesn't mean I don't think there's a few things we could do better in.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I wasn't expecting this much from Soligo, Berry, Fogarty, Worrell, Parnell or Hinge.

I'd hoped to see more from Schoenberg, McAsey, Cook and Pedlar.

It's probably a B- year.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

2 against bottom 2 teams and Carlton, make it 4 in a row and another really goes

Beating bottom sides is hardly playing finals football.

Simply our skill level is nowhere near yet finals standard.

Turnovers are a killer & better sides will make us pay until we rectify this.

 

[Gtowncrow]

2 against bottom 2 teams and Carlton, make it 4 in a row and another really goes

If we beat Port, WC, NM and Carlton all in succession, does this make us flat track bullies?

 

[kirky]

If we beat Port, WC, NM and Carlton all in succession, does this make us flat track bullies?

Well we have beaten two sides in the eight, which is one more than the PAPS.

 

[Sanders]

Zero advantage in losing for them.

Absolutely wanted to win a few late, for both football reasons and people keeping their jobs

That’s a bit generic isn’t it?

 

[rabidcrow]

My biggest gripe has been the rigid selection policy. We have seen what Worrell has been able to produce once deodee got injured.

I think Newchurch should have been given some games in the seniors also. He is quite slick when he’s on and I reckon an afl game in front of home crowd could have unlocked a bit more.

I’m worried guys like Taylor, Pedlar, Gollant, Nankervis, Cook will wallow in the 2’s next when the opportunity comes to drop an out of form player comes.

Don’t most clubs leave players in the twos longer than supporters think they should be. North have dropped JHF to the twos a couple of times - Elijah Hollands got his first game n round 19’ish, Sam Darcy made his debut last week , Ugle Hagan dropped all the time, Logan McDonald has been dropped a couple of times.

I think I’m general supporters underestimate how much players have to learn - running patterns , tactics, positioning etc as well as physical capabilities and coaches don’t necessarily want them learning this stuff on the big stage.

The longer Cook, Newchurch etc play twos (not too long) the more likely they will be ready to perform when they get the chance


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