Coach 2022 Coaching

[George]

There are many articles hailing his strategic acumen; so I think you’re being a little disingenuous. If he’s head of football we’ll we’ve wasted a season after being 8-3 after wasting 2021 as well.

How's he being disingenuous? He didn't say he wasn't good at strategy, he simply corrected you on what his role is.

Should we just ignore all the success he had at Hawthorn, and the fact Clarkson wants to work with him again?

 

[Mowman]

I invite you to explain the gameplan he has implemented which has led to consistent improvement. I must be missing something.

To move the ball from side to side of the ground slowly losing territory and then eventually kicking it slowly down the line to a contest to only turn it over so the opposition can quickly move the ball into their forward line with their superior skills by foot & hand score a goal

Improvement hasn't come yet, give it 5 or 6 years

 

[t_94]

How's he being disingenuous? He didn't say he wasn't good at strategy, he simply corrected you on what his role is.

Should we just ignore all the success he had at Hawthorn, and the fact Clarkson wants to work with him again?

I think it’s reasonable to assign some blame to him when he was sold as a tactical guru yet the current strategy is non existent. His role is head of football and no one could argue that the football department is going well as we sit here tonight.

 

[George]

I think it’s reasonable to assign some blame to him when he was sold as a tactical guru yet the current strategy is non existent. His role is head of football and no one could argue that the football department is going well as we sit here tonight.

Of course it's reasonable, but it's a bit of a laugh to discredit him completely given his resume in the game. It's a collective issue and it's not just on the coaches. Players have to take some responsibility for this as well, they have let the supporters down in the second half of the year with some of their efforts.

I think pinning it all on one guy is illogical but I can see why people do it because it's an easy fix - you just replace him, than perhaps consider it's a bigger issue than that that will take more time to resolve - not many supporters are up for that.

Quite frankly nobody here knows how the coaching group work together or how much influence they have in the gameplan. It makes more sense to pin the blame on them as a collective (same goes for the players) than to just say yep it's him let's get rid of him and it'll all be fixed.

 

[BrutThough]

There are many articles hailing his strategic acumen; so I think you’re being a little disingenuous. If he’s head of football we’ll we’ve wasted a season after being 8-3 after wasting 2021 as well.

I'm just pointing out that we have no clue what he does day to day so essentially calling him a fraud is uncalled for.

 

[Mowman]

How's he being disingenuous? He didn't say he wasn't good at strategy, he simply corrected you on what his role is.

Should we just ignore all the success he had at Hawthorn, and the fact Clarkson wants to work with him again?

No we can't deny he was very successful at the Hawks, how many years has it been since that successful period ? the game has moved and changed a lot since then. Has he been able to move and keep up with the changes in the game in that time ? I haven't seen anything this year or last year to say he has in fact many of the experts are saying our game plan is outdated

 

[gringo2011]

I thought you said we have a Top 4 list?
Now it's bottom 4 material. You change your opinion faster than the wind changes!

I acknowledge that there are issues. But they aren't as dire as some would make them seem.

I said we should compete for top 4 this year after being 8 and 3 and other sides in the top 4 not that great. We should have. We have less organic growth left because we have less kids than most and a lot came on this year already.

I've said I think we should play finals next year despite the coaching being horrifically bad. I think a bit of synch will get us to play okay together which should push us up a bit. I don't think our coaches can win us a premiership. They aren't very good and the list has a limited ceiling unless kids come on quick and a few like Clark, Coff and Higgins types meet their potential.

You are one of those shout everyone down who has concern types that doesn't really offer anything but attacking alternative views. 200 years ago you would have burnt heretics.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep. Everyone’s a little s**t and that’s why it’s so hard a problem to fix. Can’t just axe one person and fix everything. If it was a simple fix you’d imagine they’d have done it already

To me a lot of it is squarely focussed on the footy department. Players have stepped up, injury was reasonably contained and the fixture gave us a soft run up to hit the second half with beef and momentum. There is a leadership void and some mental fragility but to me game plans and systems look way off the rest of the comp.

 

[George]

No we can't deny he was very successful at the Hawks, how many years has it been since that successful period ? the game has moved and changed a lot since then. Has he been able to move and keep up with the changes in the game in that time ? I haven't seen anything this year or last year to say he has in fact many of the experts are saying our game plan is outdated

Clarkson would have a better idea on how the game is played than anyone here and he wants Rath as part of his coaching setup next year. I think that tells us all we need to know about the quality of Rath IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

How's he being disingenuous? He didn't say he wasn't good at strategy, he simply corrected you on what his role is.

Should we just ignore all the success he had at Hawthorn, and the fact Clarkson wants to work with him again?

Plenty of people are great at one organisation and flop at another. His game style looks dated and the players look confused. The forward line is dysfunctional and transition has gone backwards. If he's head of footy and a master strategist he's not showing it at the Saints.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

R

As George explains the game plan, could you please explain what Rath's what does his day-to-day role entails, why is he failing at it and what are you seeing that no one in the football industry who is working with him seems to notice?

Rath’s job is to make max king kick poorly, stomp on dan hannebery’s ankles whenever he sees him, drain Hunter Clark’s gains like a bodybuilding vampire and instruct the players to bomb every time

 

[gringo2011]

Of course it's reasonable, but it's a bit of a laugh to discredit him completely given his resume in the game. It's a collective issue and it's not just on the coaches. Players have to take some responsibility for this as well, they have let the supporters down in the second half of the year with some of their efforts.

I think pinning it all on one guy is illogical but I can see why people do it because it's an easy fix - you just replace him, than perhaps consider it's a bigger issue than that that will take more time to resolve - not many supporters are up for that.

Quite frankly nobody here knows how the coaching group work together or how much influence they have in the gameplan. It makes more sense to pin the blame on them as a collective (same goes for the players) than to just say yep it's him let's get rid of him and it'll all be fixed.

He's come as a high priced appointment, he must do something. It's not illogical, it's hard to prove who is exactly to blame but the footy department had a terrible year and 3 years in the gloss and energy a new set up brings looks to be wearing off.

Strategy is looking like an issue as is the way we transition between the lines. You'd imagine that would all be him and Ratts.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

To move the ball from side to side of the ground slowly losing territory and then eventually kicking it slowly down the line to a contest to only turn it over so the opposition can quickly move the ball into their forward line with their superior skills by foot & hand score a goal

Improvement hasn't come yet, give it 5 or 6 years

My favourite strategy of ours is to send 3 players to tackle one opposition player, fail to actually stop him and then have the ball go to unmanned opposition players

 

[gringo2011]

Clarkson would have a better idea on how the game is played than anyone here and he wants Rath as part of his coaching setup next year. I think that tells us all we need to know about the quality of Rath IMO.

He must work well with him, that's fine, maybe they just get each other. I don't think we'd miss him based on the last 2 seasons.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I invite you to explain why a coach like Clarkson would be wanting the services of Rath if he is so s**t?
You know the fact that Rath was there for 15 years?

Perhaps it's because Clarko knows what to use him for and won't be relying on him to manage the footy program or develope a game plan.

 

[George]

Plenty of people are great at one organisation and flop at another. His game style looks dated and the players look confused. The forward line is dysfunctional and transition has gone backwards. If he's head of footy and a master strategist he's not showing it at the Saints.

That's just an excuse/cop-out to justify the ill-informed opinion that he's not doing his job. His game style looks dated but Clarkson wants him for next year. I don't think that makes too much sense.

He's come as a high priced appointment, he must do something. It's not illogical, it's hard to prove who is exactly to blame but the footy department had a terrible year and 3 years in the gloss and energy a new set up brings looks to be wearing off.

Strategy is looking like an issue as is the way we transition between the lines. You'd imagine that would all be him and Ratts.

I don't imagine it'd be just him and Ratten at all, haha. Obviously it would be a collective idea from all the assistant coaches, would it not? Isn't that the more logical theory? We don't just get Enright in from a successful club in Geelong to sit up the back and nod his head at every decision.

He must work well with him, that's fine, maybe they just get each other. I don't think we'd miss him based on the last 2 seasons.

I don't think anyone knows who we would and wouldn't miss. Nobody here really has a clue, it's all guess work and most of it is wrong.

 

[BrutThough]

R

Rath’s job is to make max king kick poorly, stomp on dan hannebery’s ankles whenever he sees him, drain Hunter Clark’s gains like a bodybuilding vampire and instruct the players to bomb every time

It's good at least one person in the football department is elite at their role.

 

[Saint Shags]

I said we should compete for top 4 this year after being 8 and 3 and other sides in the top 4 not that great. We should have. We have less organic growth left because we have less kids than most and a lot came on this year already.

I've said I think we should play finals next year despite the coaching being horrifically bad. I think a bit of synch will get us to play okay together which should push us up a bit. I don't think our coaches can win us a premiership. They aren't very good and the list has a limited ceiling unless kids come on quick and a few like Clark, Coff and Higgins types meet their potential.

You are one of those shout everyone down who has concern types that doesn't really offer anything but attacking alternative views. 200 years ago you would have burnt heretics.

I'll criticise views that are so one sided that they discount every other piece of the puzzle.

You criticise the club no matter what.


I like many more see that there are a number of areas that need improving. In fact I saw us as being between 9-12 wins for the year.

There seems to be change on the horizon for the assistant coaches. Unlike some I'm happy with a potential appointment of Lenny as a midfield coach.

We need to draft further. I still see us as being 1 Tall Foward, 1 Tall Back and a ball pig short. Now does Hayes fill that Key Forward role who knows.

We may have to look at making a trade call on a couple of players to improve our draft hand. We have a number of HB Flankers. Do we need them all?

We need a more consistent small fleet. I was of the opinion last year that having all of Lonie, Butler and Higgins was too much. I think we only swapped out Lonie and brought in Long. But the problem remained. Between them they were too inconsistent.

We need a Sports Psychologist. And a bloody good one. I lot of our issues came from upstairs. We ended up too afraid to take risks.

We talk about leadership but we have a number of blokes still at the club that had Roo and Joey to play under. Yet only Gears had leadership quality? The kind that gets the rest to follow and put the head over the ball? It's not just an indictment on the current coaching group or even the Richo years. But past players have a role to play in that too.
Especially ones that love to give their opinion via the media.

 

[George]

We talk about leadership but we have a number of blokes still at the club that had Roo and Joey to play under. Yet only Gears had leadership quality? The kind that gets the rest to follow and put the head over the ball? It's not just an indictment on the current coaching group or even the Richo years. But past players have a role to play in that too.
Especially ones that love to give their opinion via the media.

That's a really interesting point and one I haven't thought too much about if I'm honest.

 

[Saint Shags]

That's a really interesting point and one I haven't thought too much about if I'm honest.

It's only one that has really come into focus this year for me.
The way commentators including the likes of Roo and Joey talk about how clubs like Geelong and Sydney instill players to be great leaders and how that is passed on to the next gen.

Did they drop the ball themselves?

We can blame coaches till we go blue in the face but if the players from the successful years don't actually help foster that growth as well, shouldn't they cop a bit of heat? Especially when some like to throw heat at the club as part of their jobs?

 

[AirWinmar]

Clarkson would have a better idea on how the game is played than anyone here and he wants Rath as part of his coaching setup next year. I think that tells us all we need to know about the quality of Rath IMO.

Maybe he isn't being used in the same way as Clarko used him so we are not getting bang for our buck.

Either way, I think most would have to agree that our structures and transition are terrible which falls on the coaches.

 

[George]

Maybe he isn't being used in the same way as Clarko used him so we are not getting bang for our buck.

Either way, I think most would have to agree that our structures and transition are terrible which falls on the coaches.

Who knows, impossible to pin it one guy. The entire group is to blame, aswell as the players who simply have been picking and choosing when to show up in the back half of the year.

 

[AirWinmar]

It's only one that has really come into focus this year for me.
The way commentators including the likes of Roo and Joey talk about how clubs like Geelong and Sydney instill players to be great leaders and how that is passed on to the next gen.

Did they drop the ball themselves?

We can blame coaches till we go blue in the face but if the players from the successful years don't actually help foster that growth as well, shouldn't they cop a bit of heat? Especially when some like to throw heat at the club as part of their jobs?

It didn't help that we traded out guys like Goddard, Dal Santo, Mcevoy.

 

[AirWinmar]

Who knows, impossible to pin it one guy. The entire group is to blame, aswell as the players who simply have been picking and choosing when to show up in the back half of the year.

I agree punters like ourselves are speculating, but in my view I think the group as it is is underporming as a direct result of coaching/strategy. It could be 1 person or multiple, but unless you were were allowed to do a review of the football department you wouldn't know.

 

[George]

I agree punters like ourselves are speculating, but in my view I think the group as it is is underporming as a direct result of coaching/strategy. It could be 1 person or multiple, but unless you were were allowed to do a review of the football department you wouldn't know.

Yeah we can only guess. My belief is that the gameplan is created as a group, so if there's issues with it they're all to blame.