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Coach Who should be our next coach?

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15/8 Board toppled (reportedly will pursue Clarkson)
19/8 Alastair Clarkson to join North
21/8 Ben Rutten sacked
22/8 Coach selection sub-committee to be established to find a replacement
26/8 Committee members announced: Josh Mahoney (GM-Footy, chair), Dorothy Hisgrove (Board member), Andrew Thorburn, Simone McKinnis, Robert Walls, Jordan Lewis
7/9 James Hird, Dean Solomon, Brendon Lade, Adem Yze interviewed at EY
13/9 Daniel Giansiracusa reportedly interviewed
17/9 Don Pyke “not pursuing that at this stage”
21/9 Brad Scott contacted by the club but won’t make a decision on whether to pursue the role until after the Grand Final
21/9 Adem Yze has second interview and tours the training facilities at Tullamarine
22/9 Blake Caracella will put his hat in the ring
27/9 Brendon Lade appointed as assistant coach at the Western Bulldogs, out of the running for Essendon job
28/9 Brad Scott to be interviewed on Thursday
29/9
 
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BrunoV said:
6 to 8 weeks of psychological testing?

This is why you have to be wary of provess for its sake.

If the answer isn't "you can stick your psychological testing up your arse"...

What could this possibly help with?

You want to trust a significant component of the process to a profession a significant part of which is made up of people who don't know whether they are coming or going?
Click to expand...
6 to 8 weeks of psychological testing sounds like bullshit to me
 
BrunoV said:
6 to 8 weeks of psychological testing?

This is why you have to be wary of provess for its sake.

If the answer isn't "you can stick your psychological testing up your arse"...

What could this possibly help with?

You want to trust a significant component of the process to a profession a significant part of which is made up of people who don't know whether they are coming or going?
Click to expand...
I think it’s

6-8 weeks of:
  • psychological testing
  • 3-4 presentations
  • meeting and satisfying the board

As opposed to

“6-8 weeks of psychological testing”


It’s also kinda vague.

If he knew exactly he would say “1 psyche eval, 3 stages of interviews with shortlisting in between, formal meeting with the board for the top 2 candidates and a partridge in a pear tree”


And I’m 110% on board with a psyche eval after the Rhys Shaw thing that North went through coach before last.
 
Also fwiw here’s a different wording of the same quote:

“The process is full on, it’s a month to six weeks or sometimes eight weeks of full-on presentations, psychological testing, there’s probably three or four presentations you need to deliver then you’ve got to meet the board if you keep on going or if you’re down to the last two.”

The “big question” facing Cameron before pursuing Essendon job

“That’s the really interesting question for myself.”
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
 

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Lore said:
I think it’s

6-8 weeks of:
  • psychological testing
  • 3-4 presentations
  • meeting and satisfying the board

As opposed to

“6-8 weeks of psychological testing”


It’s also kinda vague.

If he knew exactly he would say “1 psyche eval, 3 stages of interviews with shortlisting in between, formal meeting with the board for the top 2 candidates and a partridge in a pear tree”


And I’m 110% on board with a psyche eval after the Rhys Shaw thing that North went through coach before last.
Click to expand...


Wasn't Shaw bipolar and wasn't North aware?
 
BrunoV said:
Wasn't Shaw bipolar and wasn't North aware?
Click to expand...
I don’t know what he was or what they knew, but clearly it wasn’t a good fit as a result.
 
No doubt this has been discussed but does this panel choose the coach or recommend the coach?

As in do boards members (i.e Sheedy) have any say in it at all?
 
Lore said:
Finally got around to listening to this and holyyyy this is 100% worth a listen. I’ll probably listen again later too, >that< good. Why they didn’t wheel him out sooner idk.

Talks about some of the stuff with the players exit interviews and what sorts of things he said to them about everything when Truck was sacked.

Talked about everyone taking responsibility, that sick feeling we all have is because we’re all partially responsible, haven’t been competitive enough.

It seems that most of the playing group are having a bit of a holiday together in Spain during the off-season, or at least meeting up for a few days while they’re there.

Talked about how the required standard when they come back from the off season is about setting PBs. Made an oblique reference to some players not coming back in good enough condition in the past too, without naming names.

Also the AFLW, the process of putting that list together and the team in charge of that, Georgia Harvey and Harmit Singh who have had a bit to do with list and recruiting (Georgia more extensively than Singhy) together with Brendan Major and Charlotte Miller (VFLW coach and manager respectively).

Was asked about his reported disagreements with Adrian Dodoro, was quite diplomatic in saying that they’re all passionate about the club and ultimately all want the same things.

When recruiting new players the line is all about this clean out is driven towards creating the best possible environment and the best version of Essendon, which should also be better resourced as well.

Thorburn is regarded as being in charge of the external review process. The more I hear about this the more I suspect it’s about the operation of the board and the CEO rather than the small folk.

Asked him if he’s interested in the newly vacated CEO role, said he’s already lost a lot of sleep having to wear the Senior Coach and GM-Footy hats simultaneously and doing all the 1 on 1 chats with the players.

It’s about getting the right people in the right roles — sounded similar to Jobe’s bus analogy from the other week.

Asked about XC and Truck getting paid out — that’s someone else’s job.

And then of course the search for a senior coach, talked a bit through the panel members and how experience doesn’t necessarily mean as a senior coach — could be significant industry experience like Fagan. Didn’t get much more detail on that as far as I can recall.

Overall a very good interview though and sounds like a safe pair of hands — something the rest of the joint is sorely lacking.



Edit: Here’s a better link:

Click to expand...

Gosh I need to stop bumping this. I’ve listened to it probably three times and every time I hear it there’s another thing that sticks out to me…. Really highly recommended listen.

The players had the opportunity to have their say, some sort of survey before they left.

He was asked what lessons he takes out of the Rutten era, and his whole answer is just really intriguing;

“Everyone has got to be really clear about the expectations of the club, really clear on where the playing list is at, really clear on what the plan moving forward, but also understanding within that that there’s an expectation of competitiveness every single week. Once you’ve got that there’s a balance there but the key thing is about being really well aligned and really well communicated about where we are as a footy club.” 👀

Out of all the things that happened during Rutten’s tenure, that is the lesson that sticks out: that everyone was not on the same page.
 
Happyskeret said:
What do you mean?
Click to expand...
I mean that psychology is based on neuroscience and follows the scientific method to determine the best course of treatment, like any other health science.

A qualified psychologist can tell you all about the parts of the brain and the chemicals involved in particular conditions if you want to know more about it, and the clinical trials that support a particular course of action in treating it.

It is categorically untrue to describe it as “not science”.
 

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Lore said:
I mean that psychology is based on neuroscience and follows the scientific method to determine the best course of treatment, like any other health science.

A qualified psychologist can tell you all about the parts of the brain and the chemicals involved in particular conditions if you want to know more about it, and the clinical trials that support a particular course of action in treating it.

It is categorically untrue to describe it as “not science”.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying it’s not a thing all I’m saying is there is not enough known about it to be a full blown science. Totally agree with what you say by the way. I guess the thing that irks me as someone who is deemed as Bipolar is deemed as someone who is mentally unfit to lead others.
 
It’s a sensitive topic for me I guess my grandfather was diagnosed a schizophrenic my father told me of the story when he tore a whole shearing shed down with his bare hands. Dad too was diagnosed as being bipolar so I didn’t have to put two and two together why I felt a kaleidoscope of emotions. They were both successful men though. Dad was a teacher and me myself I thought it was a curse but it was also a blessing. My default was to feel depressed but I knew deep down that was a false sense of reality. I understand the benefits now I feel emotions like waves. I captained the local footy side and was the high school captain and now I am a boss who has turned young men and women around with them leaving as better people then when they came in.
But if you had to put it on your resume I would say hell no. I was just lucky my boss was more bat shit crazy than I was.
 
Happyskeret said:
I’m not saying it’s not a thing all I’m saying is there is not enough known about it to be a full blown science. Totally agree with what you say by the way. I guess the thing that irks me as someone who is deemed as Bipolar is deemed as someone who is mentally unfit to lead others.
Click to expand...
While there’s always more to discover I think you’ll find if you do a bit of reading online that there’s plenty of research and scientific understanding of psychology.

While I personally don’t know enough about bipolar to say if it renders someone unsuitable to lead other people, the idea that certain conditions might restrict people from certain roles and make them better candidates for others seems fairly intuitive.
 
Old Campaigner said:
While there’s always more to discover I think you’ll find if you do a bit of reading online that there’s plenty of research and scientific understanding of psychology.

While I personally don’t know enough about bipolar to say if it renders someone unsuitable to lead other people, the idea that certain conditions might restrict people from certain roles and make them better candidates for others seems fairly intuitive.
Click to expand...
I don’t think a specific condition holds you back — it’s how you cope with it.

Some people cope better than others, have different triggers, etc. you might have anxiety but it may revolve entirely around your kids or worries about getting sick, those kinds of things aren’t usually an issue in a workplace.

If you’re going for a coaching gig in a big Melbourne club and media scrutiny is a trigger that causes you to underperform or not turn up at work, then that’s going to be a problem.

I also don’t know much about bipolar specifically, but I used to know someone who has it, was a very successful person at work but when he was at home he didn’t take his medication consistently and was really difficult for his partner at the time to live with. It really just depends.

But a psych eval isn’t going to look just for a diagnosis to rule you out of a job. Probably 80% of people could be diagnosed with something. It just comes down to whether that set of traits works well in the environment you’re talking about.

Here’s an interesting article I was reading a while ago:
www.smithsonianmag.com

The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath

While studying brain scans to search for patterns that correlated with psychopathic behavior, James Fallon found that his own brain fit the profile
www.smithsonianmag.com www.smithsonianmag.com
 
BrunoV said:
6 to 8 weeks of psychological testing?

This is why you have to be wary of process for its sake.

If the answer isn't "you can stick your psychological testing up your arse"...

What could this possibly help with?

You want to trust a significant component of the process to a profession a significant part of which is made up of people who don't know whether they are coming or going?
Click to expand...
The Rhys Shaw experience?

Although 6 to 8 weeks is over doing it, surely.

Edit: well, that's what happens when you post before reading the thread.
 
Last edited:

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Lore said:
I don’t think a specific condition holds you back — it’s how you cope with it.

Some people cope better than others, have different triggers, etc. you might have anxiety but it may revolve entirely around your kids or worries about getting sick, those kinds of things aren’t usually an issue in a workplace.

If you’re going for a coaching gig in a big Melbourne club and media scrutiny is a trigger that causes you to underperform or not turn up at work, then that’s going to be a problem.

I also don’t know much about bipolar specifically, but I used to know someone who has it, was a very successful person at work but when he was at home he didn’t take his medication consistently and was really difficult for his partner at the time to live with. It really just depends.

But a psych eval isn’t going to look just for a diagnosis to rule you out of a job. Probably 80% of people could be diagnosed with something. It just comes down to whether that set of traits works well in the environment you’re talking about.

Here’s an interesting article I was reading a while ago:
www.smithsonianmag.com

The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath

While studying brain scans to search for patterns that correlated with psychopathic behavior, James Fallon found that his own brain fit the profile
www.smithsonianmag.com www.smithsonianmag.com
Click to expand...
I agree some cope with it better than others. Becoming a manager was the best thing to happen to me. I used to be impulsive but now I have learnt to put my emotions to one side when I have to have important conversations in the workplace. I’m not comparing what I do to an AFL coach that would be a tough gig no doubt.
 
Lore said:
Gosh I need to stop bumping this. I’ve listened to it probably three times and every time I hear it there’s another thing that sticks out to me…. Really highly recommended listen.

The players had the opportunity to have their say, some sort of survey before they left.

He was asked what lessons he takes out of the Rutten era, and his whole answer is just really intriguing;

“Everyone has got to be really clear about the expectations of the club, really clear on where the playing list is at, really clear on what the plan moving forward, but also understanding within that that there’s an expectation of competitiveness every single week. Once you’ve got that there’s a balance there but the key thing is about being really well aligned and really well communicated about where we are as a footy club.” 👀

Out of all the things that happened during Rutten’s tenure, that is the lesson that sticks out: that everyone was not on the same page.
Click to expand...
engagement was clearly an issue
im sure they liked him enough as he came across as a nice guy and probably a good coach.

But if you're stuck to a plan the players don't buy into, in AFL you're pretty much done as a coach. Not like other sports where you sell or alienate parts of the list and buy what you want/need.

In this way, maybe it was too soon for Truck and maybe this is a good lesson for him.
And it's one of the questions I have on Yze. He left the hawks just as Clarkson lost the players. He joined the Dees just as Goodwin turned them around. Has he seen enough to know what to do when plan A fails.

15 years of transformation in businesses has taught me the value in everyone being clear on the direction, end goal and their spot/role in the machine.
And keeping everyone engaged on that front is critical to success.
 
citizen-erased said:
engagement was clearly an issue
im sure they liked him enough as he came across as a nice guy and probably a good coach.

But if you're stuck to a plan the players don't buy into, in AFL you're pretty much done as a coach. Not like other sports where you sell or alienate parts of the list and buy what you want/need.

In this way, maybe it was too soon for Truck and maybe this is a good lesson for him.
And it's one of the questions I have on Yze. He left the hawks just as Clarkson lost the players. He joined the Dees just as Goodwin turned them around. Has he seen enough to know what to do when plan A fails.

15 years of transformation in businesses has taught me the value in everyone being clear on the direction, end goal and their spot/role in the machine.
And keeping everyone engaged on that front is critical to success.
Click to expand...
Changing a game plan several times is par for the course, and we know he was definitely trying different things, the whole shebang was simplified around midyear and then he started trying taggers and different midfield combinations, McGrath and Merrett played more back and forward respectively.

It's not like he married himself to the Titanic and went down with that specific game plan.

See also: Hardwick 2016
 
citizen-erased said:
engagement was clearly an issue
im sure they liked him enough as he came across as a nice guy and probably a good coach.

But if you're stuck to a plan the players don't buy into, in AFL you're pretty much done as a coach. Not like other sports where you sell or alienate parts of the list and buy what you want/need.

In this way, maybe it was too soon for Truck and maybe this is a good lesson for him.
And it's one of the questions I have on Yze. He left the hawks just as Clarkson lost the players. He joined the Dees just as Goodwin turned them around. Has he seen enough to know what to do when plan A fails.

15 years of transformation in businesses has taught me the value in everyone being clear on the direction, end goal and their spot/role in the machine.
And keeping everyone engaged on that front is critical to success.
Click to expand...

Maybe Yze just has an uncanny sense of being in the right place and the right time...
 
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