NO TROLLS 2022 NBA Offseason Thread

[fidstar]

 

[Marcel Proust]

I totally believe that Simmons as struggling with mental health issues, i also do hope he can turn his career around.

The interview really came across as still being the victim, i don't believe he feels at fault.

I also struggle to see him developing his game because it sounds like the same BS he trotted out in his time at Philly.

He talks about the people getting off his back about the shooting and stuff but in years and years in the league he refused to even try and improve it.

The biggest red flag is that he still talked about 'i guarded the best player on the other team'. The way he talks makes me think he is genuinely happy with where his game is, he sees himself as an all star and he is what he is. I doubt we will ever see him take any big steps forward.

Three time all star sees self as all star

 

[jod23]

No one said that he should be a great shooter.

 

[jod23]

Malika Andrews going back and forth with Stephen A and Perk about the Udoka situation is weird.

The Celtics have completely mismanaged this whole thing from the get go. There is something going on behind the scenes which we are all not privvy too just yet but IMO there is no way Udoka ever coaches the Celtics again.

 

[fidstar]

People want him to develop his game, just like LeBron and GA have. It's not that much to ask.

 

[Slysh]

I think it's unfair to expect Simmons to become a great shooter, as if that's just something that if you work on, happens magically. If that was the case, everyone would shoot like Steph Curry.

Some players are great at some aspects of the game and poor at others, that's how it is. Steph is the greatest shooter of all time but defensively he is just average. Giannis does almost everything at an elite level but still has question marks over his shooting and FT's. LeBron cant play a lick of defense and is a liability shooting the ball outside of three feet, everything else he does is elite.

Gobert is an all time rim protector, his offensive game is garbage.

So I just never understand why Simmons gets so much stick. He cant shoot, he's never gonna be able to shoot. Just play to his immense other strengths, like his height, play making, passing, athleticism, rebounding and elite defense.

I watched that entire JJ Redick interview and IMO it looks like he has matured, he never made excuses, never really blamed anyone else. He was just kind of like it is what is it and is moving forward. I thought the interview was good and he looks to be in a far better place mentally which is good to see.

Nobody suggested he had to be a great shooter, but he refused to even try.

When you refuse to participate on offence in 4th quarters of a play off series as a point guard because of the limitations you need to start acknowledging it is a serious issue.

Also his playmaking is severely overrated, yes in transition he is elite. Watching him try to run a half court offence is painful, it also seriously limits the line-ups you run because now he is at the Nets he will need to have a shooting big share the court with him or he will run in to the same problems again.

 

[jod23]

Nobody suggested he had to be a great shooter, but he refused to even try.

When you refuse to participate on offence in 4th quarters of a play off series as a point guard because of the limitations you need to start acknowledging it is a serious issue.

Also his playmaking is severely overrated, yes in transition he is elite. Watching him try to run a half court offence is painful, it also seriously limits the line-ups you run because now he is at the Nets he will need to have a shooting big share the court with him or he will run in to the same problems again.

It's incredibly naive to suggest that Ben Simmons has refused to try to shoot better. The bloke is in the gym every day as a professional? You think he hasnt tried to get better? You think Shaq never tried to shoot his FT's better. Cmon mate. He has no doubt tried but some players just dont get better.

As for refusing to participate on offence, well that's just not true. Despite that he's on the floor for other reasons, mainly defense which he is elite, rebounding, passing etc. Also there are plenty of players in the NBA past and present who are non factors on offence or non factors on defense. The way people single out Simmons for me is just crazy.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

It's incredibly naive to suggest that Ben Simmons has refused to try to shoot better. The bloke is in the gym every day as a professional? You think he hasnt tried to get better? You think Shaq never tried to shoot his FT's better. Cmon mate. He has no doubt tried but some players just dont get better.

As for refusing to participate on offence, well that's just not true. Despite that he's on the floor for other reasons, mainly defense which he is elite, rebounding, passing etc. Also there are plenty of players in the NBA past and present who are non factors on offence or non factors on defense. The way people single out Simmons for me is just crazy.

Unfortunately Simmons and his proven track record of laziness and insubordination means that much of the criticism is justified.

 

[jod23]

People want him to develop his game, just like LeBron and GA have. It's not that much to ask.

What is this narrative with LBJ and Giannis?

LeBron second year in the league he shot .351 from deep. The year just gone, he shot .359. He has not improved whatsoever from deep. LeBron came into the league in his rookie season shooting .754 from the line, the year just gone he shot .756 from the line. That is no improvement whatsoever, in fact he'd been even worse the past two season so last season was actually great for him as he shot .665, .693 and .698 the three season before last from the line. So he's actually kinda gotten worse.

I wont go over Giannis' number but its the same from the FT line and from deep. Zero improvement, very similar to %'s in his rookie season. I guess there is a small case for Giannis who shot .159 from deep in his second year in the league, that was a drop from .347 in his rookie year. Since that second season he has lifted his 3PT% back towards .300 but that's still awful from deep.

So unsure what you mean by develop his game like LeBron and GA have. LeBron is basically the same guy shooting wise he was when he entered the league, he of course got better at a lot of other stuff but shooting, he's the same guy. Giannis has obviously massively improved but he came in as a project and turned into a 2 time MVP. But again shooting wise, not much has changed.

Simmons came in more a ready prospect and does a lot of things really well from the get go. Shooting was never one of those things and much like LeBron and Giannis, it has not changed much at all. But he gets s**t on about it time and time again for unknown reasons.

 

[jod23]

Unfortunately Simmons and his proven track record of laziness and insubordination means that much of the criticism is justified.

What proven track record. Bring up all these examples of him being lazy and insubordinate.

 

[jod23]

I've just never understood it. Why dont people hammer on Rudy Gobert for not shooting threes? Why doesnt Clint Capela let them fly from deep? Why did DeAndre Jordan over his career never develop a three point shot?

Because they cant shoot, no amount of practise is gonna turn them into Steph Curry, they do other things on the court. They. Are. Not. Shooters.

Well neither is Ben Simmons but every day of his career people continually berate him to be someone he isnt. It's totally bizzare.

 

[Slysh]

It's incredibly naive to suggest that Ben Simmons has refused to try to shoot better. The bloke is in the gym every day as a professional? You think he hasnt tried to get better? You think Shaq never tried to shoot his FT's better. Cmon mate. He has no doubt tried but some players just dont get better.

As for refusing to participate on offence, well that's just not true. Despite that he's on the floor for other reasons, mainly defense which he is elite, rebounding, passing etc. Also there are plenty of players in the NBA past and present who are non factors on offence or non factors on defense. The way people single out Simmons for me is just crazy.

You mean the 1 way players that are crucified for lack of defence? You also mentioned Steph who is a willing defender, he is limited but tries on that end.

Simmons attempted 3 shots across the 7 games against the Hawks in the 4th quarter in that series... 3 shots. He stopped playing offence, he passed up a wide open dunk through fear of being fouled. Again no one expects him to being a great shooter but if you are wide open don't be too scared to attempt a shot. He refused to try in games.

Again he is not an elite passer, i used to think it but he is elite in transition. The playmaking difference between someone like him and Harden is insane.

He has severe limitations that will ever stop him from being an elite player without improvement. He is not a rim protector so the Simmons at the 5 doesn't work, if you are pairing him with a centre that centre now needs to be able to stretch the floor because Simmons will get 0 respect from defences beyond like 3ft. You also still need another primary ball handler for when the game slows down and Ben hides in the dunkers spot.

His skill set requires you to build around him, but he isn't a good enough talent to build around.

 

[Slysh]

I've just never understood it. Why dont people hammer on Rudy Gobert for not shooting threes? Why doesnt Clint Capela let them fly from deep? Why did DeAndre Jordan over his career never develop a three point shot?

Because they cant shoot, no amount of practise is gonna turn them into Steph Curry, they do other things on the court. They. Are. Not. Shooters.

Well neither is Ben Simmons but every day of his career people continually berate him to be someone he isnt. It's totally bizzare.

You know Rudy is one of the most criticized players in the league right? People constantly mention his contract as one of the worst in the NBA. Not to mention Rudy is one of the best defenders of all time, legit rim protection is a more valuable skill than being able to guard the perimeter.

He also plays centre which helps, having one non shooter is somewhat passable but having 2 in the modern game is not.

Ben calls himself a point guard, he has said multiple times he wants to be a point guard.

Also Capela is on 18 mil a year, Simmons is on over 30.

 

[jod23]

You mean the 1 way players that are crucified for lack of defence? You also mentioned Steph who is a willing defender, he is limited but tries on that end.

Simmons attempted 3 shots across the 7 games against the Hawks in the 4th quarter in that series... 3 shots. He stopped playing offence, he passed up a wide open dunk through fear of being fouled. Again no one expects him to being a great shooter but if you are wide open don't be too scared to attempt a shot. He refused to try in games.

Again he is not an elite passer, i used to think it but he is elite in transition. The playmaking difference between someone like him and Harden is insane.

He has severe limitations that will ever stop him from being an elite player without improvement. He is not a rim protector so the Simmons at the 5 doesn't work, if you are pairing him with a centre that centre now needs to be able to stretch the floor because Simmons will get 0 respect from defences beyond like 3ft. You also still need another primary ball handler for when the game slows down and Ben hides in the dunkers spot.

His skill set requires you to build around him, but he isn't a good enough talent to build around.

Im not questioning any of that. I agree with all of that. Ben Simmons isnt some GOATed player. He has massively limitations to his game but he also has massive strengths to his game like you said he's elite in transition, he's also gonna be DPOTY candidate for most of his career.

All players have strengths and weaknesses, nobody is debating that. Im debating that people crucify him for not becoming a player he isnt.

People should then do the same to Curry, berate him for not guarding Embiid and blocking shots and rebounding... Well that's not who he is.

I just dont get why he gets so much hate. He is what he is. Stop trying to make him something he isnt. As for the Atlanta series, that's bad coaching. Why is in the game if he isnt helping the team. Shaq was subbed out of games to avoid the hack-a-shaq. Good coaching. But Rivers is a spud and then threw Simmons under the bus for apparently not being a different player to what he is.

 

[jod23]

You know Rudy is one of the most criticized players in the league right? People constantly mention his contract as one of the worst in the NBA. Not to mention Rudy is one of the best defenders of all time, legit rim protection is a more valuable skill than being able to guard the perimeter.

He also plays centre which helps, having one non shooter is somewhat passable but having 2 in the modern game is not.

Ben calls himself a point guard, he has said multiple times he wants to be a point guard.

Also Capela is on 18 mil a year, Simmons is on over 30.

Again you're bringing up random s**t like Gobert getting criticism for his offence which yes he has copped and players contracts which has nothing to do with Simmons. They offered the contract, he took it. How is that his fault as to how much he gets paid?

Also guarding the perimeter is pretty key in todays game rather that rim protection. Simmons being an elite wing defender is huge.

But again not talking about how good or bad Gobert is or Simmons is etc.

Im talking about how much flak he cops for not becoming Steph Curry when he's never ever being that guy. Just let him be Ben Simmons.

 

[Slysh]

Again you're bringing up random s**t like Gobert getting criticism for his offence which yes he has copped and players contracts which has nothing to do with Simmons. They offered the contract, he took it. How is that his fault as to how much he gets paid?

Also guarding the perimeter is pretty key in todays game rather that rim protection. Simmons being an elite wing defender is huge.

But again not talking about how good or bad Gobert is or Simmons is etc.

Im talking about how much flak he cops for not becoming Steph Curry when he's never ever being that guy. Just let him be Ben Simmons.

I am not bringing up random s**t, you ask why Gobert doesn't get criticism and he does. You mentioned it not me, you are just wrong that he doesn't get hate because he gets plenty. You ask why Capela doesn't get as much it is because a centre on 18mil is not expected to do the same things a point guard on 30 mil is. I don't blame him for taking the contract but expectations come with that money.

Okay the strawman's need to stop NO ONE IS SAYING BE STEPH. NO ONE IS SAYING BE STEPH.

People are saying when the shot clock is winding down and you have the ball and aren't being guarded take the ******* shot, don't dump it it someone being heavily guarded with no time to do anything.

And the biggest one is don't be afraid to drive to the rim, you are an elite athlete but he rarely uses it anymore. He is so scared of getting fouled that has stopped driving and it means he offers very little on offence.

You say 'let him be Ben Simmons' well that is fine but you will never win with him if that is the case.

 

[Slysh]

Im not questioning any of that. I agree with all of that. Ben Simmons isnt some GOATed player. He has massively limitations to his game but he also has massive strengths to his game like you said he's elite in transition, he's also gonna be DPOTY candidate for most of his career.

All players have strengths and weaknesses, nobody is debating that. Im debating that people crucify him for not becoming a player he isnt.

People should then do the same to Curry, berate him for not guarding Embiid and blocking shots and rebounding... Well that's not who he is.

I just dont get why he gets so much hate. He is what he is. Stop trying to make him something he isnt. As for the Atlanta series, that's bad coaching. Why is in the game if he isnt helping the team. Shaq was subbed out of games to avoid the hack-a-shaq. Good coaching. But Rivers is a spud and then threw Simmons under the bus for apparently not being a different player to what he is.

They did pull Simmons in the end... Also i don't defend Doc but you are legit suggesting let Ben be Ben but also acting it is not his fault he legit can not be on the floor as a max contract player in a play off series

 

[jod23]

I am not bringing up random s**t, you ask why Gobert doesn't get criticism and he does. You mentioned it not me, you are just wrong that he doesn't get hate because he gets plenty. You ask why Capela doesn't get as much it is because a centre on 18mil is not expected to do the same things a point guard on 30 mil is. I don't blame him for taking the contract but expectations come with that money.

Okay the strawman's need to stop NO ONE IS SAYING BE STEPH. NO ONE IS SAYING BE STEPH.

People are saying when the shot clock is winding down and you have the ball and aren't being guarded take the ******* shot, don't dump it it someone being heavily guarded with no time to do anything.

And the biggest one is don't be afraid to drive to the rim, you are an elite athlete but he rarely uses it anymore. He is so scared of getting fouled that has stopped driving and it means he offers very little on offence.

You say 'let him be Ben Simmons' well that is fine but you will never win with him if that is the case.

And that's fine. He doesnt translate well to today's NBA. You have to surround him with shooters, that's the only way you get the best out of him.

I'm just sick of him copping a ridiculous amount of s**t for not becoming a great shooter. It's not like he said on draft night, you guys just wait, Imma shoot it like Steph and pass like Magic and dunk like Jordan. He was the same guy before the NBA, everyone knew he couldnt shoot. He's never pretended he could shoot.

Then everyone just gets on his back about it. It must drive him nuts. People need to stop it because it hurt his game more than it helped. He's said he's been in some pretty dark places mentally and you can see the effect it had on him when he passed up that dunk in the Atlanta series.

Just let the guy be Ben Simmons.

I know other players cop flak too, Gobert for his offence and Trae Young cops it for his nonexistant defense but I dont think either cop nearly as much as Ben Simmons has. Just let the bloke be Ben Simmons. Whether you find a system or a team where he fits and you can win with is yet to be seen but stop trying to make him into a player he just isnt.

 

[jod23]

They did pull Simmons in the end... Also i don't defend Doc but you are legit suggesting let Ben be Ben but also acting it is not his fault he legit can not be on the floor as a max contract player in a play off series

How is it any of it his fault? He never lied or tried to convince anyone that he was this great shooter. Everyone knew who he was and Philly still gave him a max. If someone offers me that kinda money, I aint asking questions, Im taking the bag.

Doc is a s**t coach and when his team came up short everyone threw Simmons under the bus like as if the reason they lost the series was Simmon's fault alone. Nah bro, you dont lose a tight 7 game series cos of one guy. You lost as a team, simple as that. Basketball is a team game. Players made the wrong or right plays over the course of 7 games, coaches made the right or wrong calls. It is what it is. He was massively dogged by Philly and I absolutely understood that he was like, nah I'm out.

I hope it goes well for him in Brooklyn, hopefully with guys like Joe Harris, KD, Kyrie, Mills etc around him he can thrive.

 

[Slysh]

How is it any of it his fault? He never lied or tried to convince anyone that he was this great shooter. Everyone knew who he was and Philly still gave him a max. If someone offers me that kinda money, I aint asking questions, Im taking the bag.

Doc is a s**t coach and when his team came up short everyone threw Simmons under the bus like as if the reason they lost the series was Simmon's fault alone. Nah bro, you dont lose a tight 7 game series cos of one guy. You lost as a team, simple as that. Basketball is a team game. Players made the wrong or right plays over the course of 7 games, coaches made the right or wrong calls. It is what it is. He was massively dogged by Philly and I absolutely understood that he was like, nah I'm out.

I hope it goes well for him in Brooklyn, hopefully with guys like Joe Harris, KD, Kyrie, Mills etc around him he can thrive.

Mate that is fine but you follow sport, the more you get paid the higher the expectations. This is not a Simmons exclusive thing, with that kind of money comes expectations. He has not lived up to them.

Doc probably should have answered the question better but my god the thrown under the bus thing is ridiculous. People talk like Doc blatantly said Ben lost us the series. He got asked if Ben could be the PG on a championship team and he said i dunno...

He gave up in that series... Bro seriously 7 quarters of basketball and he ATTEMPTED 3 shots... Don't tell me he is not the major issue. Seth getting cooked on defence hurt big time and let me be clear here i totally agree Doc is a moron.

But Ben quit on them, the open dunk he passed on isn't just memorable because it was an awful decision but because it symbolized what he had become. He was not even going to attempt to score at all, it is beyond just not shooting now. If you are scared to have the ball because you are scared to get fouled you can not play. You mentioned Shaq earlier and the difference is Shaq was not scared of failing.

Notice i haven't mentioned his historically bad FT shooting in that series? Because i don't get down on athletes for mistakes, that happens. But i will get down on players who stop trying.

I wish Ben the best, i don't hate him or wish for him to fail. He is the reason i started watching basketball religiously again. He got me back in to it and i defended him for years. I love seeing Aussies go overseas and thrive and if he does at the Nets i will be happy for him. I just have big concerns over whether we will see it happen.

 

[jod23]

Mate that is fine but you follow sport, the more you get paid the higher the expectations. This is not a Simmons exclusive thing, with that kind of money comes expectations. He has not lived up to them.

Doc probably should have answered the question better but my god the thrown under the bus thing is ridiculous. People talk like Doc blatantly said Ben lost us the series. He got asked if Ben could be the PG on a championship team and he said i dunno...

He gave up in that series... Bro seriously 7 quarters of basketball and he ATTEMPTED 3 shots... Don't tell me he is not the major issue. Seth getting cooked on defence hurt big time and let me be clear here i totally agree Doc is a moron.

But Ben quit on them, the open dunk he passed on isn't just memorable because it was an awful decision but because it symbolized what he had become. He was not even going to attempt to score at all, it is beyond just not shooting now. If you are scared to have the ball because you are scared to get fouled you can not play. You mentioned Shaq earlier and the difference is Shaq was not scared of failing.

Notice i haven't mentioned his historically bad FT shooting in that series? Because i don't get down on athletes for mistakes, that happens. But i will get down on players who stop trying.

I wish Ben the best, i don't hate him or wish for him to fail. He is the reason i started watching basketball religiously again. He got me back in to it and i defended him for years. I love seeing Aussies go overseas and thrive and if he does at the Nets i will be happy for him. I just have big concerns over whether we will see it happen.

Givng up and not shooting are two separate things. He never gave up. He just had no confidence in his shot which wasnt a secret before the Atlanta series as he would often not get involved offensively in games. Expectations to how much you are paid I guess exists, but again, he was offered the money, you take it. And he does have some absolute great strengths it's not like he should be on the vet minimum.

How is the thrown under the bus thing ridiculous. "I dunno" was absolutely not what Doc should have said there, that is 100% throwing Simmons under the bus. If Doc doesnt think Ben can be the starting PG for them to win a chip, that is absolutely a discussion to be had behind closed doors, not with the media.

LeBron shies away from the FT line late in games too, Shaq was happy to shoot those FT's too, but he was an animal and wanted to win.

But again you keep coming at me like as if we have different opinions on the player Simmons is, which we dont, he's a seriously limited player considering his shooting. The only thing I'm arguing is the amount of hate he cops and the fact every analyst and commentator keeps trying to turn him into a shooter when he was never a shooter to begin with.

 

[fidstar]

What is this narrative with LBJ and Giannis?

LeBron second year in the league he shot .351 from deep. The year just gone, he shot .359. He has not improved whatsoever from deep. LeBron came into the league in his rookie season shooting .754 from the line, the year just gone he shot .756 from the line. That is no improvement whatsoever, in fact he'd been even worse the past two season so last season was actually great for him as he shot .665, .693 and .698 the three season before last from the line. So he's actually kinda gotten worse.

I wont go over Giannis' number but its the same from the FT line and from deep. Zero improvement, very similar to %'s in his rookie season. I guess there is a small case for Giannis who shot .159 from deep in his second year in the league, that was a drop from .347 in his rookie year. Since that second season he has lifted his 3PT% back towards .300 but that's still awful from deep.

So unsure what you mean by develop his game like LeBron and GA have. LeBron is basically the same guy shooting wise he was when he entered the league, he of course got better at a lot of other stuff but shooting, he's the same guy. Giannis has obviously massively improved but he came in as a project and turned into a 2 time MVP. But again shooting wise, not much has changed.

Simmons came in more a ready prospect and does a lot of things really well from the get go. Shooting was never one of those things and much like LeBron and Giannis, it has not changed much at all. But he gets s**t on about it time and time again for unknown reasons.

Wow, amazing selective picking numbers. You've picked the best season from LeBron's first 8 seasons to compare to today's number. Comparing LeBron's rookie season to today shows LeBron has improved immensely (also a stupid thing to do).

You obviously not watching games to not see a change in LeBron's/GA's game that has improved their abilities to control an offense. GA gets guarded near the 3 point line now. That didn't use to happen. Just the fact he's willing to shoot them means people need to go out and guard him. Meanwhile...

 

[Richard Cranium]

Simmons s**t fights?

 

[Constantgin]

 

[LukeHodge15]

Kobe Bryant clip on Netflix running through Pau at the Olympics

Just Pure Kobe