List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[SaintsSeptember]

What is our list strategy?

You figured it out. No-one knows , not even the people doing it.
That way it can't be leaked and the enemy can't copy it .

KAOS agents are everywhere Chief.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not sure I see the relevance.

He didn't understand our list strategy.

Probablyly because he knows as little of what’s going down at the club as we do, and does not have anyone feeding him info either because he’s in the media, ergo he is as frustrated as us off no insider knowledge at all.

Basically he probably knows just a much about what’s happening as anyone one of us on here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's part of the frustration, the plan doesn't seem to be very obvious. Are we rebuilding? Are we challenging? Refreshing but then why DeGoey? None of it looks very linear at the moment. I'd be more confident if the club said that we are looking to do a quick refresh through the draft and did it in a disciplined sensible way with all players on board with it.

It feels like they prefer to keep quiet about plans or direction to keep membership up but then come across as a bit dishonest or incompetent. If we spend the next few seasons taking our draft picks they usually take around 5 years to hit their peak and that's if you pump games into them.

DeGoey will be 31 by the time the guys taken this year will be peaking and he'll be one of the senior leaders at the club.

I'm not sure he's the guy I'd bring in to lead a group of youth. Although maybe they just want a bit of razzle-dazzle for the fans while we rebuild?

Don't worry about finding a label.
We are trying to remove players who will never be good and replace them with players who are better.
Also, we will probably find some handy HBF's to swap our draft picks for.

 

[BrutThough]

I seem to recall him being opposed to us bringing Hanners in late in the season, only for him to one of our best and help us get over the line in that game, and then get 3 Brownlow votes two games later.

Was also the loudest voice for demanding Higgins gets dropped after rd1 and critical that we didn't, only for Higgins to come out and get the most coaches voted rd2.

Moral of the story, Nick rants about things like he is a Bigfooty poster but isn't correct about a lot of things.

 

[MordySaint]

They could work for Seek if the boss would add some staff. I think a lot live out Pluggers way around East Bentleigh and places where the property isn't as crazy. There are a few around Elwood still though.

I was the biggest critic of Seaford but it sounds as though the concept wasn't terrible, just the facility was poor.

Frankston oval overlooking the bay is one of the best ovals in Oz IMO. Sunset over that place looks like you are somewhere exotic. If they'd spent the money on that instead of that backwood in Seaford we would have been in a different place now. Opened my mind up a bit. It wasn't as terrible an idea as I'd originally imagined, just poorly handled.

I think you are close to the mark on this one... there are too many Melbourne teams fighting for the same players. It's pretty obvious the lifestyle in Geelong is a big drawcard and makes them a point of difference.

The Seaford concept could have worked... but not at Seaford or at Frankston oval.

A better idea would have been Mornington or Mt Eliza, our own plot of land... owned by the club.. purpose built facilities.

Players could have lived in Sorrento, Portsea... played golf at the National and surfed on their days off. Live a great lifestyle with their families.

What we are now left with is a council owned land, bank owned facilities... huge debt. Stuck in Melbourne trying somehow to be different from 8 other Melbourne based clubs.

 

[Veer Right]

The major issue is the current football administration has given us exactly what it said it would replace which is uninspiring coaching staff and an unbalanced team made up of underperforming, over paid players combined with disgruntled and poorly developed young talent.

I hope they can get some of those points right this time.

I think the hierarchy are doing a mighty fine job this off season. McGlynn and Lade out the door, fantastic on both counts, Hayes and Walsh in the door, again fantastic on both counts. Walshes appointment will take some power away from Ratten and mates as he will do things his (proven) way while still working as a team.

On the trade front, i agree with the names been thrown up for draft picks. The club has looked at positions we can cover then looked at who has trade value. The club wants a better crack in this years draft. The players from other clubs we are looking at has been very good as well. List needs on the ones reported except Mitchell. Lot to play out in the next two weeks.

Even our reported offer on JDG is a marked change from what we did in 2019 where we went balls deep.

The biggest thing this year from gut feel is that Ratten is getting increased assistance from those around him. The club is actively trying to do things better.

 

[snails13]

Fox Footy pumps up the big rating clubs.
No different to the Herald Sun.

And their employees are instructed to do it.
If you didn't have access to the game results and just listened to Joey talk about essendon and Carlton you'd assume they were currently great teams.

I would have thought that a Trade and Draft period,would be a time when a team in a world of hurt,do their best to get out of that situation and that in my opinion is what we are trying to do
If Degoey gets to the Saints we are surely going to be a better performing team
If like some rumours suggest,that JHF likes the city of Melbourne and will seek a trade to St Kilda,next season then we get into an even more stronger team situation
So things change quickly with 1 good trade pick or draft pick every year.

 

[Grav]

If I was De Goey I’d be telling Collingwood that I’m going to St Kilda & you’ve got this man to thank.
Then I’d have his picture on my locker & play my guts out each week on the way to securing a GF win for the Saints, then while receiving the Norm Smith medal I’d just say “No common sense huh?”

 

[ULTIMATE_WARRIOR]

If anyone doesn’t know the answer to that question it would be incredibly foolish to lose one’s s**t over it, I would have thought.

Some on here constantly bag the club for stupidity or incompetence, but in the next breath they lose their s**t over something that

A: Might not have even happened, or B: Could very easily have happened for an extremely reasonable reason, if it did.

Which is of course the epitome of foolishness and stupidity on their own behalf.

Who’s losing their shit?

I’m a long time Saints supporter and member like everyone in here. And similar to Nick I’m just frustrated and quite frankly losing a lot of faith in those entrusted with running the club.

Mixed messages galore the last few years, we’re contending and then we’re not and then we are again. Now no idea if we’re rebuilding or moving forward or just standing still which we have the past two years. Sure, it’s possibly overreacting to a particular trade scenario, but you can’t ignore that it looked like a golden opportunity gone begging.

I’m an avid reader and post only occasionally so I assume you are referring to other posters. But you can’t really blame anyone for getting emotive after a decade of irrelevance with little light in sight.

 

[sammm]

Saints bluffing. Welcome to StKFC Jack Bowes

why do we need another defender?

 

[bird_man]

But Bowes comes with pick 7.
And needs to be paid massive wages for the next two seasons at least.
Maybe Bowes isn't much good and it's too much money to invest in someone who's not very good.
Roo can get upset about the money paid to Hannebery because he didn't ever play but he was a superstar at one stage.
Maybe getting pick 7 doesn't justify getting Bowes wages and opportunity cost down the road.
And, that's assuming the just chuck pick 7 in with no expectation of anything back. Which i doubt.

Obviously the Cats disagree

The fact we are a middling club at the moments means we should at least he in a position where we can overpay a player if it means getting pick 7

The whole idea of trading Clark was to get back into the draft so we are clearly chasing picks.

Unfortunately the best we will likely get for him are some future picks that could end up anywhere.

It's a missed opportunity.

 

[bird_man]

why do we need another defender?

Well we are losing both Clark and Long

And Hill has made it clear he wants to head back to the wing if he does end up staying

And Bowes is versatile. Drafted as a mid and put back to defence by Dew.

 

[Fehring]

They could work for Seek if the boss would add some staff. I think a lot live out Pluggers way around East Bentleigh and places where the property isn't as crazy. There are a few around Elwood still though.

I was the biggest critic of Seaford but it sounds as though the concept wasn't terrible, just the facility was poor.

Frankston oval overlooking the bay is one of the best ovals in Oz IMO. Sunset over that place looks like you are somewhere exotic. If they'd spent the money on that instead of that backwood in Seaford we would have been in a different place now. Opened my mind up a bit. It wasn't as terrible an idea as I'd originally imagined, just poorly handled.

My recollection is that we wanted Frankston but the council knocked us back

 

[Armoooo]

If we land JDG and they lose him.

Which list looks better?

Collingwoods IMO. They've got 22+ players that can handle the heat of big finals. I reckon we'd be lucky to have 4 or 5.

It's inappropriate for a coach to comment on another club, ever heard any other coach do it, sounds like a desperate man pleading with a player to stay & how was his club going when Eddie was in charge didn't they just go through an investigation over their handling of indeginous players.

I think the quote came from Matty Lloyd, as far as I'm aware McRae hasn't commented on us specifically.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Roo speaks his mind and some of you want to sink your little size 6 boots in.
Pathetic.

 

[Joffaboy]

That's part of the frustration, the plan doesn't seem to be very obvious. Are we rebuilding? Are we challenging? Refreshing but then why DeGoey? None of it looks very linear at the moment. I'd be more confident if the club said that we are looking to do a quick refresh through the draft and did it in a disciplined sensible way with all players on board with it.

It feels like they prefer to keep quiet about plans or direction to keep membership up but then come across as a bit dishonest or incompetent. If we spend the next few seasons taking our draft picks they usually take around 5 years to hit their peak and that's if you pump games into them.

DeGoey will be 31 by the time the guys taken this year will be peaking and he'll be one of the senior leaders at the club.

I'm not sure he's the guy I'd bring in to lead a group of youth. Although maybe they just want a bit of razzle-dazzle for the fans while we rebuild?

Well I am really confused by what they are up to, it all sounds contradictory.

Specifically with Bowes, maybe we have SC issues, but with all the retirements and the offer to DeGoey, that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe Hill has indicated that he wants to stay and go all out to win his wing position back and that has affected the thinking.

Maybe we dont rate this draft, but we seem to have only gone after one FA in DeGoey which is a long shot still as I feel he the Magpies will come to terms. And if we don't rate the draft why offer up Clark and say we only want a great return? What do they want? a top 5 pick?

Seems all over the shop. The post trading period analysis will be of great interest on here. As it stands, it seems confused and inexplicable.

 

[Armoooo]

If like some rumours suggest,that JHF likes the city of Melbourne and will seek a trade to St Kilda,next season then we get into an even more stronger team situation

We are no chance of getting JHF, the only reason his name has ever been floated is because of an anonymous text message to a radio host.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Fox Footy pumps up the big rating clubs.
No different to the Herald Sun.

And their employees are instructed to do it.
If you didn't have access to the game results and just listened to Joey talk about essendon and Carlton you'd assume they were currently great teams.

I definitely think this is relevant to remember, the larger clubs can do no wrong in the media narrative a lot of the time. A lot of us on here in a bit of a tizzy with little to no players linked to the club (which is definitely disappointing) but I don't think things are as bad for us or as good for Collingwood/Carlton as is being made out in the last year or so.

Collingwood in the last couple of years have had some lucky father son picks, have made some good drafting decisions but have also massively ****ed over a couple of people list management wise, which we would get crucified for. They have had 2 high quality players in Treloar and now Grundy on big deals who they are now looking to fob off because they can't afford what they promised them. Could you imagine the media and fan uproar if that was us and we ****ed up not being able to pay King or Steele? And we had to push them out?

I'm gonna wait until trade week is over and so long as we don't **** off our first round pick for some B grade spud and give Clark away for a packet of chips I'll probably stay melt free. I hope we can cash in on these salary dump types of deals because it's been obvious with Treloar/Wright/Brodie that you can get a good player at a great price if you've got the wriggle room in your salary, but who knows what the clubs plans are.

 

[Sully111]

Always loved Roo obviously as a supporter he was a great man for our club in his playing days.
And I was excited for his transition into the media, I thought finally someone on our side! When ling, darcy, G.lyon constantly earbashing us.

But he’s turning into a lame kornes/ Andrew gaze type behind the camera.

What was it about what he said that you disagreed with?

 

[Minga]

Personally I'd be livid if we sacrificed getting De Goey to get Bowes.

I’d take pick 7 (+ and a prospect in Bowes) over DeGoey any day.

I’m desperate for the club to invest in youth and building a young core over just replenishing our list with 26+ year old players who might be good, might be average, might snort a pound of coke on arrival at Moorabbin and enjoy the behavioural free clauses and top coin for the next 4-5 years.

DeGoey is a sugar hit, one which might taste very good and even make us a much better team. But he’s risky, and inconsistent, a PR nightmare, and I just see far more value in the quality of taking 2 top ten picks to the draft and bringing Bowes in all of which will possibly make us better for longer.

Again though, I’m positive there’s more to the Bowes and pick 7 deal that meets the eye, can’t see how we wouldn’t be all over it otherwise.

 

[Barrels]

Cheap shot

Why? He’s right.

 

[Gosaints12]

Yeah all that and he came 5th and 7th in the B&F.

Don't let facts get in the way of a slag off fantasy though

You numpties carry on like he is the worst trade and player in the history of the AFL.

Hope he stays just to s**t the numpties.

Think he’s worth more in the club then outta it TBH.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[sunny3193]

Isn't it obvious whats gone on here... Bowes doesn't want to leave, hes being pushed out the door. Hes nominated Geelong because, either he wants a Premiership out of leaving or because he knows with their cap it's unlikely to get done. He doesn't want to come to us... Thats his choice. But &*^%heads like Browne like to use language that makes it sound like we stupidly opted out, because it gets clicks.

The structuring of language around the Saints has frustrated me for years, the way Nick is frustrated. Listen to commentary during a game: Opposition player gets tackled and drops the ball "he just got that out in time", St kilda player tackled immediately with no chance of escape, "will the umpire call holding the ball, St Kilda got lucky...". The tension in language here is designed to bait Nick, its unconscious for Browne I'm sure, but it comes from a need to force drama, in a space Journo's know tension exists. My wife is a Journo, she loves language, and she fights this stuff on a daily bases.

Is it a great deal, yes... Should Geelong be investigated for the Cap situation if it gos through... YES, and should St kilda ask another player they don't want if he wants to come to the saints and offer that to the Sun.... YES, YES, YES... but you cant be involved in a trade that is not approved by the player in the AFL, so Bowes can do what he wants...

Her byline on The Globe and Mail is: “Canadian Saintess”?

 

[sunny3193]

This time of the year dropping in to read and keep updated you have to keep balance and in touch with reality. From Chicken Littles with the sky is falling, to those jumping at shadows, delusion and paranoia run rampant.

From the rush to microwave memberships because the club was recruiting Kyle Hartigan from Hawthorn, to disappointment that JDG is not coming to St Kilda, to Saints refusing to even entertain discussions with Suns to take on player and pick 7, there is no end to anger at rumours and rubbish.

The rules for trading and drafting sanity:

1. Just because a click bait journo, or 13 year on an Internet forum says its so, it may not be

2. Saints (and every other club) is investigating every possible scenario. If you see another club doing a trade etc, don't then assume that we didn't also examine it. We either didn't want that player, the player didn't want to come to us, he is too expensive, we can't fit him under our salary cap, or that we don't have the trade capital to make it happen

3. The fact that the St Kilda admin is not telegraphing every possible move they are making publicly is a POSITIVE. Best negotiations are done quietly and professionally, not alerting everyone to what you are doing, or thinking

4. Sometimes this time of the year, it is the thrill of the chase. Whilst the hunt and chase is exhilarating, it is better to take a calculated approach with who comes in, who departs and who we draft.

5. If you see a scenario that involves more than two parties, it will rarely happen. Complicated trades that involve 4 clubs, 8 picks, a sheep dog and a handful of beans are fun, but fantasy

6. Bringing up an isolated past error from a trade, or draft is irrelevant. The only people who don't make errors are those who don't make decisions, or make decisions with the benefit of hindsight

7. Sometimes the best purchase is the one you walk away from.

Wisdom.

 

[snails13]

We are no chance of getting JHF, the only reason his name has ever been floated is because of an anonymous text message to a radio host.

Any player with class that comes into our list helps us get out of our world of hurt that M Lloyd says we are in
That's why there are Trades and Drafts