Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[dergert]

Lever, Andrews & McGovern are all slow, not many of them types are necessarily quick.

Just need to get your defensive structure right.

Obviously, we need to fix our defence.

I was going to post something similar.

Add Sam Collins to the list.

But yeah, we can't build a backline around him obviously.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Not that I have seen.

I think the combine results will be interesting for Buss. I’ve read a lot of conflicting stuff on him. Good/poor disposal, fast/slow, genuine key defender/third tall interceptor only.

 

[doggies ftw]

This x100. Pace isn’t the be all and end all for a defender, it’s so overplayed in here when talking about the likes of Darcy etc.

The forwards making the play with the timing of his leads, if he gets the jump on you and has easy ball coming in unpressured from the midfield it doesn’t matter who the * is on him he’s going to get burnt it’s really that simple. Of course closing speed to kill a high ball or a pressured entry or when caught out of position is a big bonus but * it’s not the be all and end all of a defender.

We have to shy away from this ridiculous system of playing aggressively high and expecting our defenders to have to get back and defend when they’re caught out of position and the balls pinging through the middle. Theres a reason our defenders face less one on ones than any other team and it’s not because our defensive system is working and they’re helping each other out, it’s because most of the time they’re so far out of position they can’t even get close enough to the forward for the contest to be registered a one on one.

It’s complete bullshit.

You can still have intercept specialist players playing aggressively to chop off entries and if that leaves the odd forward taking uncontested marks so be it but playing every single defender in your defence 15m in front of their closest forward? Whoever come up with this bullshit should be *ing shot tbh

With Jones next year who excels wrestling under a high ball just sit the last line of defence back a little. Invite the long ball in and let Jones handle his direct opponent whilst the likes of Darcy float in over the top to mark, or Gardner to kill the contest. Funnily enough all our good ball movement comes through quick chains off Half back, our half back flankers are great let them do their work and find options to slingshot forward - we don’t have to cut off the ball at wing/half back and lock it forward to be successful, actually it usually goes against the way we play our best footy.

People always ask why we’re always flooded in our forward line and no where down back? It’s because our whole system relies on repeat entries where we struggle to score from for the most part with the defence eventually finding an exit over your pathetic defensive line and walking into open forward lines.

Just for once I’d like to see us invite the ball into defence like teams do against us, and then get to work on rebounding from a congested defence (where Dale, Daniel & Richards do their best work) with direct ball movement into an open forward line where the likes of Naughty, Marra & Cody will burn their opponents

Coming out of defence should not be as scary as we seem to think it is with two of the best contested marks in the comp in Naughty & English hitting up down the line, although some nice attacking wingers would really help here.

Just to add to this also I’m not saying never push up and lock the ball in either - when we’re dominating the middle and the pressures up sure press up and put on the pressure on the opponent, kill the clock and grind them out with repeat entries.

But * when you’re having the ball repeatedly walked out of the centre against you don’t you think it’s time to tighten up defensively and control the tempo abit? This is where Bevo has always struggled - there’s no game sense in the way we play, no adapting to in game situations. We play our well and when it’s working great, when it’s not? Nothing. Try nothing different keep doing what you’re doing…

 

[dogwatch]

I agree with those who have had enough of the attacks on players that have surfaced again on here. I don't like limiting discussion but I think collectively we have started to cross the line and we now are seeing really unwarranted personal attacks and insults directed at players.

If you would like a little more stringent moderating on this topic give this post a thumbs-up... and if you want things to remain as they are, give this post a thumbs-down. That might be a way of testing the temperature of posters on this board.

I'm not sure it's really increased a lot over the years.

I have said a number of times (including at least 10 years ago when I noticed some unfair attacks on players) that a reasonable test is "would I be prepared to say it to the player's face?" If not then best keep it to yourself.

I can easily ignore the more extreme posts but it's disappointing if they drive away some of the more reasonable posters. We're all the poorer for that.

Hopefully the players don't browse BF too much.

 

[BevoRambo]

Lever, Andrews & McGovern are all slow, not many of them types are necessarily quick.

Just need to get your defensive structure right.

Obviously, we need to fix our defence.

Nah it’s different. It’s also not fair to compare a fringe player to AA defenders.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Jen Geoffings]

Also does Dunkley have a known illness that effects his day to day life?
No.

Whilst I’m pleased to learn that Dunkley does not have any known illnesses that effect (sic) his day to day life, best practice mental health advice is to not to comment or make inference about whether or not a person, other than yourself, is impacted by a health condition.

 

[Lex22]

This x100. Pace isn’t the be all and end all for a defender, it’s so overplayed in here when talking about the likes of Darcy etc.

The forwards making the play with the timing of his leads, if he gets the jump on you and has easy ball coming in unpressured from the midfield it doesn’t matter who the * is on him he’s going to get burnt it’s really that simple. Of course closing speed to kill a high ball or a pressured entry or when caught out of position is a big bonus but * it’s not the be all and end all of a defender.

We have to shy away from this ridiculous system of playing aggressively high and expecting our defenders to have to get back and defend when they’re caught out of position and the balls pinging through the middle. Theres a reason our defenders face less one on ones than any other team and it’s not because our defensive system is working and they’re helping each other out, it’s because most of the time they’re so far out of position they can’t even get close enough to the forward for the contest to be registered a one on one.

It’s complete bullshit.

You can still have intercept specialist players playing aggressively to chop off entries and if that leaves the odd forward taking uncontested marks so be it but playing every single defender in your defence 15m in front of their closest forward? Whoever come up with this bullshit should be *ing shot tbh

With Jones next year who excels wrestling under a high ball just sit the last line of defence back a little. Invite the long ball in and let Jones handle his direct opponent whilst the likes of Darcy float in over the top to mark, or Gardner to kill the contest. Funnily enough all our good ball movement comes through quick chains off Half back, our half back flankers are great let them do their work and find options to slingshot forward - we don’t have to cut off the ball at wing/half back and lock it forward to be successful, actually it usually goes against the way we play our best footy.

People always ask why we’re always flooded in our forward line and no where down back? It’s because our whole system relies on repeat entries where we struggle to score from for the most part with the defence eventually finding an exit over your pathetic defensive line and walking into open forward lines.

Just for once I’d like to see us invite the ball into defence like teams do against us, and then get to work on rebounding from a congested defence (where Dale, Daniel & Richards do their best work) with direct ball movement into an open forward line where the likes of Naughty, Marra & Cody will burn their opponents

Coming out of defence should not be as scary as we seem to think it is with two of the best contested marks in the comp in Naughty & English hitting up down the line, although some nice attacking wingers would really help here.

Very well said.

There’s a general misunderstanding of pace on here and how it matters for key position players, i.e. it doesn’t if they’re good enough/in the right system.

Perfectly summed up.

 

[Free Agent]

For a laugh you lot should check at the Freo board. They think Bulldogs want Lobb so bad that you should give up pick 11 or pick 15 from Brisbane. It's insane reading.

Lobb wouldn't even be rated as a pick in the 20s. Be around pick 30 at the most. Not even sure why Bulldogs even want Lobb at all. Your tall forwards are alright. It would be better for you guys to get some quality small forward crumbers. That's more where I feel you fall down a little. I'm a little confused on why you guys even want Lobb.
I see your list and Norton, Bruce Hagan, Darcy. But not much quality smalls.

Whats your take on this.

 

[BomberDog]

Very well said.

There’s a general misunderstanding of pace on here and how it matters for key position players, i.e. it doesn’t if they’re good enough/in the right system.

Perfectly summed up.

Roughy playing for a few years basically as a giant witches hat proves this.

 

[Lex22]

Nah it’s different. It’s also not fair to compare a fringe player to AA defenders.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I’m not comparing, just saying that pace can be overrated in a lot of context, especially for smart players.

 

[Lex22]

For a laugh you lot should check at the Freo board. They think Bulldogs want Lobb so bad that you should give up pick 11 or pick 15 from Brisbane. It's insane reading.

Lobb wouldn't even be rated as a pick in the 20s. Be around pick 30 at the most. Not even sure why Bulldogs even want Lobb at all. Your tall forwards are alright. It would be better for you guys to get some quality small forward crumbers. That's more where I feel you fall down a little. I'm a little confused on why you guys even want Lobb.
I see your list and Norton, Bruce Hagan, Darcy. But not much quality smalls.

Whats your take on this.

At best for Freo, he’ll go for a late 2nd rounder, but dare say Power will push for a 3rd.

Its a salary dump when they land Jackson and that’s the only way we’re interested, i.e. we’re not forking out much for a 30yo.

 

[Dogs till i die]

I'd love to give McAsey a go at our club.

Dudes been homesick since being at the crows and has been bullied by senior players.

Might do well under Beveridge.

Taken at number 6 by the Crows must be talent there itching to show it off.

Definitely worth the risk, Stengle was a risk for the Cats and they were rewarded.

McAsey will cost more than the Cats paid for Stengle but don't underestimate a player being at home and happy.

 

[Bulldogs85]

For a laugh you lot should check at the Freo board. They think Bulldogs want Lobb so bad that you should give up pick 11 or pick 15 from Brisbane. It's insane reading.

Lobb wouldn't even be rated as a pick in the 20s. Be around pick 30 at the most. Not even sure why Bulldogs even want Lobb at all. Your tall forwards are alright. It would be better for you guys to get some quality small forward crumbers. That's more where I feel you fall down a little. I'm a little confused on why you guys even want Lobb.
I see your list and Norton, Bruce Hagan, Darcy. But not much quality smalls.

Whats your take on this.

I have given up reading that board it’s laughable at best

 

[immortalmike]

Whilst I’m pleased to learn that Dunkley does not have any known illnesses that effect (sic) his day to day life, best practice mental health advice is to not to comment or make inference about whether or not a person, other than yourself, is impacted by a health condition.

I didn't. Simply said to my knowledge nothing has come out thusno specific sensitivity was necessary. I would change my behaviour if it were.

It's not that hard. But please continue to be a smart arse instead of addressing the issues I'm raising. Very empathetic of you.

 

[immortalmike]

Done with this board for a while. Enjoy.

 

[glenashley]

I think I'm still jaded by the 2015 draft where we took the 2nd highest rated KPD and he only played 1 game for us.

Looks like the only star kpds to come from that draft were Weitering, McKay and ......... Ryan Gardiner

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Surely either us or Carlton you’d think, depends what Crows would want for him I guess but surely couldn’t do much worse than Cordy with much more upside.

Big bodied defenders can take years to come on whilst they adjust to the size differences at AFL, whilst it’s usually only the athletic beasts that excel early - but in saying that we know first hand with Collins just because you had a size advantage at junior level doesn’t mean you’ll eventually get it at AFL level.




He’s obviously got ability in there, but yeah he must have been bloody poor to not even get a look in over the past 2 years

Extremely small sample size but the one () game I watched and tried to focus on Mcasey I was stunned at how slow he was. Like it was pointless even pretending to chase level slow. Maybe something was up but have heard others say he is very very slow

 

[Mofra]

Lever, Andrews & McGovern are all slow, not many of them types are necessarily quick.

Just need to get your defensive structure right.

Obviously, we need to fix our defence.

In fairness, only Andrews takes the no 1 defender (Lever and McGovern intercept because they are damn good at it).
I think we lack that pure interceptor, so that's not a slight on players who perform in that role.
Wood was amazing at it, Crozier pretty good before his form dropped off. We targeted Tim O'Brien to do it but his form didn't warrant selection.

 

[Lex22]

In fairness, only Andrews takes the no 1 defender (Lever and McGovern intercept because they are damn good at it).
I think we lack that pure interceptor, so that's not a slight on players who perform in that role.
Wood was amazing at it, Crozier pretty good before his form dropped off. We targeted Tim O'Brien to do it but his form didn't warrant selection.

I wasn’t debating roles in the back half, more so pointing out that there’s a lot of slow, but successful defenders.

Yep, we really missed Easton this year. Experienced, play tall or small and intercepting at his best.

Hard guy to replace, especially when Crozier feel off a cliff.

 

[Doggiesfan14]

Link to where he suggested this ?

One would hope it’s no the start or even middle of a Chinese Whisper.

Hate to see an oxygen thief getting credit for anything. On the other hand if it’s a direct quote then one could assume he might be in the know

Was deleted within an hour of posting - do have this screenshot though

 

[Anja_Nees]

I think I'm still jaded by the 2015 draft where we took the 2nd highest rated KPD and he only played 1 game for us.

Looks like the only star kpds to come from that draft were Weitering, McKay and ......... Ryan Gardiner

Charlie Curnow is solid too.

Some mug traded the pick he was taken with for two later selections. Can’t quite think of the club.

 

[Claythesmiths]

It's pretty clear that Fremantle are going to ensure they get something more than Pick 30 for Lobb, and if we can't involve our Pick 11 in a deal which sees us getting Pick 13 (or similar) back, then we are going to have to use one of Brisbane's picks to trade down to something more suitable. For example, Pick 15 for Picks 20 & 39 from West Coast, with 20 going to Freo for Lobb.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

It's pretty clear that Fremantle are going to ensure they get something more than Pick 30 for Lobb, and if we can't involve our Pick 11 in a deal which sees us getting Pick 13 (or similar) back, then we are going to have to use one of Brisbane's picks to trade down to something more suitable. For example, Pick 15 for Picks 20 & 39 from West Coast, with 20 going to Freo for Lobb.

Fck that

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Was deleted within an hour of posting - do have this screenshot though

Any suggestion that any of our players regularly smokes meth is the most insane and asanine thing I have heard of in all my decades of following the dogs.

They do realise that these players are drug tested weekly right? Meth stays in your system and shows up for weeks on sensitive drug tests.

Anyone suggesting that this is a thing should have their head checked.

We have our problems at the dogs but regular and known meth use isn’t one of them.

* we have one down year and people want to stoop to that level of rumour, jfc.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Any suggestion that any of our players regularly smokes meth is the most insane and asanine thing I have heard of in all my decades of following the dogs.

They do realise that these players are drug tested weekly right? Meth stays in your system and shows up for weeks on sensitive drug tests.

Anyone suggesting that this is a thing should have their head checked.

We have our problems at the dogs but regular and known meth use isn’t one of them.

* we have one down year and people want to stoop to that level of rumour, jfc.

You do realise it was Ricky Nixon? You'd need meth psychosis to take him seriously lol