NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[EconomicDecline]

Do you think footy players in general and especially closer knit groups like mob that come from the same place/share kinship networks don't talk?

Let’s use your quoted players.

Chad Wingard grew up in Murray Bridge, SA. Jarman Impey in Shepparton, Victoria. Pretty sure these guys had no connection to each other before playing with Port. So why would they have any connection to some as yet unnamed rookies playing for Hawthorn when they put there hand up to be traded there?

Honestly baffling you could pull that card.

 

[1990crow]

“I don’t care if he’s a racist, I just want him to make my team not s**t anymore! It’s so bloody unfair that this has happened! Why won’t someone think of North Melbourne!”

This appears to be his argument.

 

[The Warlord]

For all we know Tex made a one off terrible comment.
Why would his team mates assume he's a racist before that?
It's incredibly disgusting to insinuate players should assume anyone is a racist for no reason.

There was actual racism happening at Hawthorn under Hodges watch.

Not comparable in the slightest.
For you to not understand the difference makes you incredibly dumb.

This is genuinely hilarious.

Tex, a proven racist who was suspended for racism, probably wasn't racist.

 

[The Warlord]

Yes, such progressive campaigns such as .... a game at Easter, celebrating an out dated religious figure...

At least St Kilda play a pride game each year..

Lolololololol, you can go ignore.

 

[EconomicDecline]

This appears to be his argument.

Honestly feels like what a lot of them are doing and patting each other on the back about it too.

 

[yeahmate]

My personal take on all this, I think Clarko sounds like a ruthless campaigner but whether or not i'd want him sacked depends on exactly what happened and also at least partly his motivations. So:

1. if he flat out told a player to get his missus to have an abortion or else you're not getting a game - sack
2. if he told a player to dump your missus or else youre not getting a game - sack
3. if he intervened in players personal lives against player wishes other than 1 or 2 because he thought he knew best but essentially overstepping appropriate employer/employee boundaries - strong warning, dont do it again or youre out;
4. if he intervened in domestic situations because requested to do by player and some misguided believe that he could make things better - counselling about inappropriateness of actions, senstivity training and clear definition of future role that you are a football coach not a defacto social worker;
3. if he told players to cut off contact from family and friends to concentrate better on football by taking away their sims, etc during season - probably least worriesome behaviour for mind, not sack, maybe some sensitivity training for better dealing with modern generation players

 

[JyeDye]

Why?

Walker was suspended for racism a year ago.

If Hodge is meant to have "known" about racism under Clarkson, why wouldn't Adelaide players have known about Walker?

The inability of people to think on this one is stunning.

Firstly, we're the most performatively progressive and lefty club in the comp, we rely on that stuff to pay the bills.

If there was a hint at this stuff being as bad as Rusty Skills made out, we'd have sacked him.

And yes, we would.

We sacked our captain and best player over principle in the off season, back when we really couldn't afford it.

Maybe your club is just waiting for a full investigation before passing out judgement? Kind of like you keep saying everyone should be doing but instead you are using this information to reach your own judgement claiming he's innocent.

 

[TerryWallet]

This is genuinely hilarious.

Tex, a proven racist who was suspended for racism, probably wasn't racist.

It's the typical response by someone typing in their club duffel coat. Complete with player badges, or even coach's badges that haven't even started yet.

I continue to be amazed by it. But there you go.

It can get hot employing this practice, so i suggest you, and others should never type on subjects other than footy banter while fully duffeled up.

 

[Chief]

To be fair, Chief, we don't know what those people are going to go on record about. The brief was to consider the experiences of players with a view to improvement. Surely experiences both positive and negative were canvassed, otherwise it wouldn't be a very balanced report.

And as you see in the report, at least one person did say that although they disagreed with some treatment of their son on delisting, they would not have trouble with him going back if the chance arose.

 

[Chief]

This thread is going to ROCK soon Chief when posters are telling Jy Simpkin, Tarryn Thomas, Jason Horne-Francis that they've got it all wrong you see, and they shouldn't want to play under Clarkson because ... God knows what the thinking there is going to be, but its coming.

If I was a parent of a young Aboriginal player, I would not want him playing under Clarkson.

That's just middle aged white guy me, though.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Not sure why Hodge had to put out a statement. Nothing to stop him privately supporting them but publicly doing so is just fanning the flames.

Disappointing but not surprising from Hodge - agree with you, why say anything at all? His experience is completely irrelevant, and providing a character reference on social media undermines the allegations made by his ex-teammates.

 

[Curly5]

Who does North get now? Not a lot to chose from left.

James Hird’s still available. Kevin Sheedy says he’s ready.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

Afternoon All,

I'm a long time lurker, who has given into the temptation to share my two cents following a read of the thread.

Maybe the allegations are true, maybe not. Who knows? I don't as I wasn't in the room. I've never liked Clarko and don't know any of these people personally and thus I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome.

What concerns me however is the rollout strategy employed by the complaintants, which clearly involves a attempt at narrative setting and character assassination via the leaking of a confidential report to the ABC journalist. Any other interpretation of the timeline is wilfully naïve.

The effect of that narrative setting can be observed by simply scrolling through this thread and reading the posts written by people that have condemned the 'villains' in the absence of any meaningful information to substantiate the claims. The strategy relies on appealing to the biases of certain sections of the public (the everything is white supremacy crowd) and has been stunningly successful.

Further to that, the methodology used to collate the actual report - which didn't include interviewing the alleged perpetrators - is farcical.

Egan, the club and the AFL would have known the damage that the publication of these allegations would inflict on the reputations of the accused, so the idea that they would receive no right of reply prior to publication calls into question the character of everyone involved in collating and managing the report.

I've read the report and the leaked emails, and in the absence of anything more substantial in my opinion what we are dealing with her is no more than a scorned woman, whose partner (ex or not) sought the club's assistance in dealing with a relationship breakdown and subsequently hid behind the same officials.

Clarko and the boys getting involved in such a situation is one of the lowest IQ moves that I've ever seen, and they are paying a price for their stupidity now, but that is hardly racist.

Amusingly, the media appears to be treating the story with more scepticism now - we've gone from Whately's "Shades of the Stolen Generation" to articles with caveats all over the place. This story appears to be falling apart, however looks can be deceiving.

I'm looking forward to hearing Clarkson and Fagan's side of the story before passing judgement, and the will withhold judgement until all the facts are tabled.

I suggest that you do the same.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Who does North get now? Not a lot to chose from left.

It could be anyone and the campaigners would no longer have to tie themselves in a knot carrying water for Clarko. It’s that easy.

 

[sr36]

I think the issue is you don't know whether the bolded is true, as it hasn't been fully investigated across the full playing group. It could have been done systemically across the entire board. The Mitchell example shows that to be a possibility.

Systemic racism isn't necessarily direct racism. It doesn't necessarily mean that particular races are targeted. It means that the system is likely to result in a negative outcome for particular race or culture.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I must say, the North Melbourne board is an absolute disgrace.

 

[Maddo11]

I must say, the North Melbourne board is an absolute disgrace.

Delusional.

It's been so long since they've had a win they're clinging to Clarko as tight as they can

 

[The Warlord]

Maybe your club is just waiting for a full investigation before passing out judgement? Kind of like you keep saying everyone should be doing but instead you are using this information to reach your own judgement claiming he's innocent.

Thr President has said we're actively backing him.

I find your use of "innocent" fascinating. That's how Jackson stuffed up, making it adversarial and binary.

It's not that, it's far more nuanced. Clarkson doesn't dispute the events happened for example

He says he has a very clear memory of them happening differently.

I understand that Clarkson and Fagan would have come across like the scumbag cops, social workers and teachers that had bullied those kids and their families their whole lives.

Middle aged white men in uniform with the power to make seemingly artribrary life and delusions on a whim.

That doesn't mean the events went down, or took place in the same context, as those folks remember.

 

[Royce Hafey]

The only thing that matters is whether our playing group, especially the indigenous players want him.

I don't believe you have North supporting friends, you may have previously but after you called SWAT teams on them for daring to question Sir James they broke off contact.

You have no idea what the Indigenous players at your club think. None of them chose to play at the club knowing either about these allegations or, in most cases I would imagine, that Clarko was going to be their coach. If in the unlikely event that they share your blithe indifference to the allegations, and, what would be even weirder, continue to share it after the allegations have been proven to be true, then their little exhibition of Stockholm Syndrome wouldn't save Clarko.

 

[The Warlord]

It's the typical response by someone typing in their club duffel coat. Complete with player badges, or even coach's badges that haven't even started yet.

I continue to be amazed by it. But there you go.

It can get hot employing this practice, so i suggest you, and others should never type on subjects other than footy banter while fully duffeled up.

None of these events happened at North.

If we have to sack Clarko tomorrow we will.

We sacked Carey on principle. Lots of clubs wouldn't have.

I don't want someone who did half of what he's accused of at the club.

 

[The Warlord]

You have no idea what the Indigenous players at your club think. None of them chose to play at the club knowing either about these allegations or, in most cases I would imagine, that Clarko was going to be their coach. If in the unlikely event that they share your blithe indifference to the allegations, and, what would be even weirder, continue to share it after the allegations have been proven to be true, then their little exhibition of Stockholm Syndrome wouldn't save Clarko.

Well, indigenous players could be walking out on the club or requesting trades right now couldn't they?

I'm not indifferent to the allegations. I think they are horrific and I believe those people.

Lol at "Stockholm Syndrome" too.

I note Dimma just came out in support of him though.

 

[Festerz]

I must say, the North Melbourne board is an absolute disgrace.

It only takes a few posters to take a thread totally off the rails, especially if the topic is controversial.

When this story first broke there were a few 'usual suspect' posters on the Port Board who take the thread down the same path - one persistent troll rattling out the 'Lindy Chamberlain killed her baby.' line. Thankfully it settled down into a reasonable discussion. Helps that whatever the topic, any thread on the Port board declines into a 'sack hinkley' hate fest anyway.

Without knowing how that board is moderated I guess that because North have more to lose from the possible fallout, it explains why there is more of that stuff going on there.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The AFL has discovered being judge, jury and executioner in an investigation into itself is no longer acceptable, and its authority is being challenged by those at the heart of the game's latest racism furore with the Federal Government watching developments closely.

Judge, jury, executioner — the AFL's iron grip authority is being challenged

External pressure is rising on the AFL after the abuse allegations levelled against Hawthorn, writes Tracey Holmes, with the Federal Government watching developments closely.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Thr President has said we're actively backing him.

I find your use of "innocent" fascinating. That's how Jackson stuffed up, making it adversarial and binary.

It's not that, it's far more nuanced. Clarkson doesn't dispute the events happened for example

He says he has a very clear memory of them happening differently.

I understand that Clarkson and Fagan would have come across like the scumbag cops, social workers and teachers that had bullied those kids and their families their whole lives.

Middle aged white men in uniform with the power to make seemingly artribrary life and delusions on a whim.

That doesn't mean the events went down, or took place in the same context, as those folks remember.

Your president is a joke.I'm not sure why you rate the integrity of presidents, Hawthorn's president has a large collection of gollywogs that he brags about.

 

[The Warlord]

People proving my point with every post that Jackson stuffed this from the get go by making it an adversarial thing with his shithouse reporting.