Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[VinnieB]

Yeah, I “grasp” onto awards given by the coaches, rather than fan voted awards. Shock horror.

If you can't work out how flawed the weekly coaches award is, then I can't help you.

 

[VinnieB]

Is this a serious question? Of course playing in the centre is easier.

That's why every teams worst players are hidden in the centre. It's why every teams best players are played on the flanks.

It's why the AA team is filled with flankers and the centres can't get a look in.

It's why the team with the best flankers tend to win the flag every year but the teams with the best midfield makes little impact.

It's why flankers sweep all the awards.

Finally, it's also why youngsters are always introduced in the centre before graduating to the much harder flanks when they're ready.

HAHA.

(Sorry Vin, just having a laugh at this part of the argument. I agree Daicos will be a star and that it does not make one iota of difference where he played this year)

Hawthorn v Collingwood Round 12

Daicos:
36 disposals
11 intercepts
5 score involvements
789m gained
4 inside 50s
6 rebound 50s
1 kick in

Newcombe:
23 disposals
6 intercepts
5 score involvements
406m gained
2 inside 50s
8 clearances
12 tackles

Just shows how the umpires only see what's in front of them and also forget about the early part of the game. And when it's a slog, the midfielder at the foot of the ruckman gets even more noticed given it's all stoppages and tackles.

Daicos was the best player on the ground that day but only received 1 vote.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Hawthorn v Collingwood Round 12

Daicos:
36 disposals
11 intercepts
5 score involvements
789m gained
4 inside 50s
6 rebound 50s
1 kick in

Newcombe:
23 disposals
6 intercepts
5 score involvements
406m gained
2 inside 50s
8 clearances
12 tackles

Just shows how the umpires only see what's in front of them and also forget about the early part of the game. And when it's a slog, the midfielder at the foot of the ruckman gets even more noticed given it's all stoppages and tackles.

Daicos was the best player on the ground that day but only received 1 vote.

Thanks for that Vin. You've convinced me that playing on a flank is harder than playing in the centre (contrary to what any player or coach will tell you) by randomly quoting Brownlow votes from a single game.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

If you can't work out how flawed the weekly coaches award is, then I can't help you.

As opposed to the highly esteemed "22 under 22", which is:

(a) fan voted
(b) you literally can't select the players you want in the position you want*

* for example, there are 5 on field mid positions (most teams play many more than this) and there are about 20 options for 3 roles (C, RR, R) and 3 options for the two wing roles (of which at least 2 of whom do not play wing). This forces you to pick an inferior player out of position for no reason.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Hawthorn v Collingwood Round 12

Daicos:
36 disposals
11 intercepts
5 score involvements
789m gained
4 inside 50s
6 rebound 50s
1 kick in

Newcombe:
23 disposals
6 intercepts
5 score involvements
406m gained
2 inside 50s
8 clearances
12 tackles

Just shows how the umpires only see what's in front of them and also forget about the early part of the game. And when it's a slog, the midfielder at the foot of the ruckman gets even more noticed given it's all stoppages and tackles.

Daicos was the best player on the ground that day but only received 1 vote.

Vin, you talked about it being an 'unnacountable' role then quote stats showing that Newcombe laid 12 TACKLES.

Daicos, by comparison, in a position where he is meant to defend, had 1.

The umpires rewarded the player who rolled up his sleeves and got dirty.

I couldn't split Newcombe and Daicos that day. From memory, the GameDay threads had similar a narrative.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Vin, you talked about it being an 'unnacountable' role then quote stats showing that Newcombe laid 12 TACKLES.

Daicos, by comparison, in a position where he is meant to defend, had 1.

The umpires rewarded the player who rolled up his sleeves and got dirty.

I couldn't split Newcombe and Daicos that day. From memory, the GameDay threads had similar a narrative.

Maybe it was the proportion of contested footy Daicos won that showed his role was harder? 22% of Daicos' possessions were contested compared to 57% for Newcombe. Maybe uncontested footy is harder?

(Just having a bit of fun today guys. I really don't care who had the slightly better game in Round 12 and I can see Daicos will be a quality player, regardless of if he played flank or centre in his first year. They're different players with their own strengths and I expect both will be quality for a long time. Doesn't mean I can't chuckle at the suggestion playing centre is easier than on a half back flank )

 

[Psicosis]

Excluding Hawthorn & North nuffies, would any neutral take Newcombe ahead of LDU if they were putting together a team from scratch?

Didn't think so.

I think that puts a full stop on this debate.

"AH but Whaa AHH LDU's first two seasons, but AHH whaAA these pointless stats".

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Excluding Hawthorn & North nuffies, would any neutral take Newcombe ahead of LDU if they were putting together a team from scratch?

Didn't think so.

I think that puts a full stop on this debate.

"AH but Whaa AHH LDU's first two seasons, but AHH whaAA these pointless stats".

I love how you:

(a) answer your own question (as a "North nuffie") rather than seeing what the answer actually is; and
(b) reframe the question differently to what is being argued

Why don't you actually put a thread up asking "Is it possible Jai Newcombe will have a career as good as LDU?"

Cos that's the basis of this argument. I said it was 'arguable' and couple of posters have suggested it's not possible, LDU is top 1% and "plays a different sport", etc. Even if you think LDU is/will be better, that's a dumb position to take (like basically all of your now 'backfired' calls of last off season* ).

*incidentally mostly based on a 2nd half of the season of good form (Larkey, Thomas, North in general, etc, etc).

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Excluding Hawthorn & North nuffies, would any neutral take Newcombe ahead of LDU if they were putting together a team from scratch?

Didn't think so.

I think that puts a full stop on this debate.

"AH but Whaa AHH LDU's first two seasons, but AHH whaAA these pointless stats".

Dont exclude Hawthorn and North Nuffies and then answer it yourself

Narcissistic Nuffie to think your opinion speaks for the neutrals

But i think the LDU Newc comparison is unfair, LDU is clearly the better player currently

I think a projection argument is far too early as well

Just let the boy play

 

[Schulzenfest]

I love how you:

(a) answer your own question (as a "North nuffie") rather than seeing what the answer actually is; and
(b) reframe the question differently to what is being argued

Why don't you actually put a thread up asking "Is it possible Jai Newcombe will have a career as good as LDU?"

Cos that's the basis of this argument. I said it was 'arguable' and couple of posters have suggested it's not possible, LDU is top 1% and "plays a different sport", etc. Even if you think LDU is/will be better, that's a dumb position to take (like basically all of your now 'backfired' calls of last off season* ).

*incidentally mostly based on a 2nd half of the season of good form (Larkey, Thomas, North in general, etc, etc).

It's possible I'll win the lottery.

Is it likely Newcombe will have a better career than LDU? Absolutely not.

 

[TheFourPillars]

It's possible I'll win the lottery.

Is it likely Newcombe will have a better career than LDU? Absolutely not.

So let it be written

 

[Blackhawk42]

It's possible I'll win the lottery.

Is it likely Newcombe will have a better career than LDU? Absolutely not.

That sucks.

I'll tell my son to pick another favourite player then.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

It's possible I'll win the lottery.

Is it likely Newcombe will have a better career than LDU? Absolutely not.

Newcombe based on current output will have a better career then JHF, but what a stupid thing to say so early

What a shortsighted comment

 

[The 747]

Still North and the gap is widening.

 

[Schulzenfest]

That sucks.

I'll tell my son to pick another favourite player then.

Thanks for letting me know.

If your son wants to pick a favourite player who's likely to have a better career than LDU then you might need to find him a different club.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

If your son wants to pick a favourite player who's likely to have a better career than LDU then you might need to find him a different club.

I'll take Luke Bruest and Chad Wingard currently

I will take Sicily's career currently as well

LDU hasn't even won a bnf yet , and that matters because we are making blanket early calls on players careers yeah?

 

[The 747]

Il take Luke Bruest for your an idiot

You're - and I'll

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You're - and I'll

Adjusted accordingly

Appreciate it

 

[The 747]

There is an interesting dynamic here, the longer North are bad for the better they will do in this poll.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It's possible I'll win the lottery.

Is it likely Newcombe will have a better career than LDU? Absolutely not.

I think we view the situation differently though.

The odds of winning the lottery are so astronomical that it bears no relevance to its genuine 'possibility'. It's evident you perceive LDU to be such an incredibly rare talent that the possibility of nearly any player in the comp coming close to be equally remote.

My perception is that LDU finished his 5th year very, very strong and is therefore currently in front. In terms of predicting future success, I would always lean toward the player who is currently in front, as I do in this instance. However, I don't think the prospect of Newcombe being as good is nearly as remote a possibility as you are making out. His current form is not that far behind and he is several years younger. In fact, there are plenty of reasonable arguments that his season as a whole last year was just as good, if not better (as adjudged by every available award). Witht this in mind, it is still very much a 'wait and see' for me.

In short, I probably view it as 55% chance LDU ends up the better player whereas you view it as 99% chance.

 

[matey]

Excluding Hawthorn & North nuffies, would any neutral take Newcombe ahead of LDU if they were putting together a team from scratch?

Didn't think so.

I think that puts a full stop on this debate.

"AH but Whaa AHH LDU's first two seasons, but AHH whaAA these pointless stats".

Wow Newk must be a gun ……. you normally come up with options that involves two Hawthorn players in these type of scenarios. LDU must be half the player of TT!

 

[Psicosis]

Wow Newk must be a gun ……. you normally come up with options that involves two Hawthorn players in these type of scenarios. LDU must be half the player of TT!

Still waiting on someone to say they'd rather Jai then Luke...

 

[Sky]

Excluding Hawthorn & North nuffies, would any neutral take Newcombe ahead of LDU if they were putting together a team from scratch?

Didn't think so

I’d rather LDU but hard to respect your train of thought when you exclude North fans but go for North.

 

[WWSD]

Still North and the gap is widening.

I don’t know if you are being serious?

North Melbourne has the worst forward-line and backline stocks in the competition. They ranked 18th in both areas. That’s not a good foundation to have when your trying to build a team that can win a Premiership. As bad as Hawthorn’s list might look right now, they at least have the pieces up forward and down back to build around.

 

[VinnieB]

Thanks for that Vin. You've convinced me that playing on a flank is harder than playing in the centre (contrary to what any player or coach will tell you) by randomly quoting Brownlow votes from a single game.

No, I was just pointing out how these awards are flawed. Apologies it should have been a reply to your previous post.