20th AFL Team

Which location will be the home of the 20th AFL team?


  • Total voters
    335
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
The point of WA3 is Perth has over 1 million people per team & is an Aussie rules strong hold. Thats about twice the number of people per team that Melbourne has per team. WA3 would still make it some 700k per team, still much more than Melbourne/Geelong

Also Sydney, despite its population, will probably never really support 2 clubs. It has 8 NRL clubs who don't pull the crowds most AFL clubs do. Thus the support for all football codes is Sydney is limited.

So the Mantra of 2 clubs per state outside of Victoria is bent. Its obviously ridiculous.

Use that population growth and economy to make the WAFL stronger. I believe the investment that can be put towards a 3rd WA AFL team would be better spent towards a WA NRL team.

19th team will definitely be Tasmania, and I think by then Canberra will put a strong case for the 20th spot.

Vic - 10
NSW - 2
WA - 2
QLD - 2
SA - 2
Tas - 1
ACT - 1

Yes it's skewed in Victoria's favour but that's just the reality of the league, as the AFL is Victorian in origin.

I'm not against relocation as it worked out well for South Melbourne, but I don't think that's on the table anymore. AFL will only expand with new stadiums and new franchises from hereon.

The only way I see less teams in Victoria is if the AFL created a 2nd division similar to the NPL in regards to the A-League (so no pro-reg) and putting some of the weaker Victorian clubs in that league, alongside some stronger non-afl alligned state league clubs like Norwood, Subiaco, Port Melbourne, etc.
 

MelbourneGWS

Club Legend
Oct 1, 2022
1,979
2,811
AFL Club
GWS
The 20th team will most likely be from SA or WA. It’s just what deal they can get down with the Government and State football boards. Perths extra 800,000 population and possible big sponsorship more likely.
Yes, I think team 20 will be between WA3 and Canberra. As for timing, the start of the new media deal in 2032 would enable the AFL to obtain increased $ in negotiations
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yes, I think team 20 will be between WA3 and Canberra. As for timing, the start of the new media deal in 2032 would enable the AFL to obtain increased $ in negotiations

As I see it, the only real problem with Canberra is the AFL want to milk it for GWS, Like with the Hawks & North in Tassie, until we finally gave them the middle finger.

It's all the AFL seem to understand.
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
5,063
1,586
It's about time some mods started being fair
AFL Club
Fremantle
Distribution of support is a Melbourne problem which affects the strength of the league.

Yes, but why don't you say that the AFL supports 'x' number of teams in Melbourne?
The AFL supports 2 teams in Sydney. Just look at the annual AFL $$$ distribution!

You'd hope that the AFL supports all AFL teams.

Aussie Rules may be better, its more the point people don't support sport as much in Sydney.

Well the Swans games are defy that statement don't they.
NSW & QLD have 4 highly AFL funded clubs. 2 of which have most of that states support, the other 2 may just keep struggling.

NSW and Qld have two of the biggest clubs - Lions outdrawing the Broncos and the Swans the biggest team in Sydney.
FFS, remember that the expansion clubs were underwritten by the increased media rights - it's part of the plan.
It's absolutely boorish to harp on about a fact that was expected.
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
5,063
1,586
It's about time some mods started being fair
AFL Club
Fremantle
I don't want to death ride Victorian clubs, so based on identity rather than financial status or likelihood of moving, I think I'd like North.

The Canberra Kangaroos has a great ring to it #CanGaroos. They're an inoffensive club so it's easier for fans of other teams to get on board. There are a huge amount of kangaroos in Canberra. And the blue and white colour scheme are a great contrast to our two closest teams in Sydney. But, that's a huge if. Can't see any team moving any time soon.

I agree. North have sufferred from being shopped around - Sydney, Gc, Canberra and Tasmania
yet never committing once to a serious relationship which was the problem.
Canberra would be a good fit, being 'North' and not too far away.
They could take the opportunity to add a colour to the tired blue & white like yellow.
 
Mar 24, 2017
5,016
5,853
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks
The point of WA3 is Perth has over 1 million people per team & is an Aussie rules strong hold. Thats about twice the number of people per team that Melbourne has per team. WA3 would still make it some 700k per team, still much more than Melbourne/Geelong

Also Sydney, despite its population, will probably never really support 2 clubs. It has 8 NRL clubs who don't pull the crowds most AFL clubs do. Thus the support for all football codes is Sydney is limited.

So the Mantra of 2 clubs per state outside of Victoria is bent. Its obviously ridiculous.
Yes, but who in WA would want a new team? Not the current two clubs. Not the supporters of the current two clubs. WC is sold out but Freo has plenty of capacity and is not even half as big as WC. A new club would not even be half as big as Freo. It would make be a smaller club than North or Tas, rivalling GC and GWS at best. Would anyone really change clubs? And if they did, isn't that just robbing Peter to pay Paul?

AFL in Perth is killing it, but it can be a delicate balance. Just because something is really popular doesn't mean that more is sustainable. BBL going from 8 rounds to 14? Remember how big soccer was in Melbourne when there was only Victory. They were bigger than the small AFL clubs for a few season there. Add two new clubs, and the delicate balance changes and it all falls apart. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Canberra for team 20 is a safer bet than anywhere else.

First the AFL needs to fix GWS. They can start with realigning the Swans and Giants zones in Sydney. Inner West should not be Swans territory. Change the name to West Sydney Giants, forget Canberra and play two games @ SCG when Showgrounds is being used for Easter Show (yes it is not Western Sydney but neither is Canberra). They are never going to draft any kids out of Blacktown or Penrith, but Inner West has decent participation. Anything west of the ANZAC bridge needs to be Giants turf. Need to get some local Sydney kids on the Giants list.

Next, once Tas comes in, send Hawks to Canberra for three games. Create a proper AFL academy in Canberra, servicing the Riverina and all areas that might eventually form part of Canberra's AFL zone. Give the Hawks an incentive to invest (we put a lot of time into Tassie), by giving the club access to Canberra players (outside top 40, like we have in other places - Next Gen). Do the same thing with North and NT.

Bring Canberra in 2032.

AFL comp structure sorted.
 
Last edited:
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
Remember how big soccer was in Melbourne when there was only Victory. They were bigger than the small AFL clubs for a few season there. Add two new clubs, and the delicate balance changes and it all falls apart. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

This is why I hope we never see a 2nd Adelaide team in the A-League. AUFC forever boys 💕
 

pOleK

Professional Couch Observer
Oct 27, 2014
2,146
2,693
Tbar
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
FC Barcelona, Atlanta Hawks
Just my two cents, I think after Tassie, Canberra would be a shoe in. Nations capital, population of Tassie in a smaller region, and just helps to finally balance the number of non vic/vic teams. And then after that I can’t see another team entering the comp unless a Vic team is forced to relocate/fold/merge.

On face value alone, the interstate clubs are worth considerably more long term then the mid to small Vic Clubs. The AFL have invested too much money in the Northern states to lose any sort of foothold so if any shuffle of current licenses is going to happen it’ll happen in Victoria. But considering how well run most clubs are nowadays I can’t see that eventuating unless something catastrophic happens.
 
Mar 24, 2017
5,016
5,853
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks
Newcastle was my vote a few months ago from a financial sense. How many years of losses would it take though? 50?

I really want my own Darwin team although I can’t support them if they’re hideous aesthetically. I’d still be a 50 year member if I lived to old age though
Newcastle is about as NRL as it comes. An AFL club there would be a ghost town. Like Wollongong would be good for a game a year if they could get a 10k stadium.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
Just my two cents, I think after Tassie, Canberra would be a shoe in. Nations capital, population of Tassie in a smaller region, and just helps to finally balance the number of non vic/vic teams. And then after that I can’t see another team entering the comp unless a Vic team is forced to relocate/fold/merge.

On face value alone, the interstate clubs are worth considerably more long term then the mid to small Vic Clubs. The AFL have invested too much money in the Northern states to lose any sort of foothold so if any shuffle of current licenses is going to happen it’ll happen in Victoria. But considering how well run most clubs are nowadays I can’t see that eventuating unless something catastrophic happens.

I also see difficulty in expanding after 20 teams.

If there was a case for further expansion after Tasmania and ACT - WA3 may have a strong case. SA3 maybe.
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player Hater
Sep 10, 2010
12,674
17,002
Next door
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Use that population growth and economy to make the WAFL stronger.
Nobody wants to watch a second-rate competition.

I believe the investment that can be put towards a 3rd WA AFL team would be better spent towards a WA NRL team.
Why should the AFL care about better uses of investment if it benefits other codes rather than themselves?

I think a third WA team would be a good idea purely to stop West Coast growing too big in future, and the impact on Freo could be mitigated by basing it away from Freo's supporter base. But it's not going to happen because West Coast and Freo will both fight it hard, wanting to maintain their financial dominance. Canberra will be the 20th team, it's the only one that makes financial sense and won't have huge opposition from current clubs.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
Long term it could take away part of our advantage of being 1 hour from Melbourne when you have a bigger town like Newcastle that’s two hours from Sydney?

I can see Newcastle's AFL team working with the right plan and investment. It won't be as popular as NRL but it need not be.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
Nobody wants to watch a second-rate competition.

I'm sure the WAFL is popular to footy fans in WA, and you need to keep the local leagues alive to grow the game. I'm also a big fan of an NPL style 2nd division competition for Aussie Rules.


Why should the AFL care about better uses of investment if it benefits other codes rather than themselves?

I think a third WA team would be a good idea purely to stop West Coast growing too big in future, and the impact on Freo could be mitigated by basing it away from Freo's supporter base. But it's not going to happen because West Coast and Freo will both fight it hard, wanting to maintain their financial dominance. Canberra will be the 20th team, it's the only one that makes financial sense and won't have huge opposition from current clubs.

Maybe there was a misreading here - I didn't say that the AFL should invest in an NRL team in WA. That's ridiculous :smile:

Tassie will be the 19th team and Canberra the 20th team. It's hard to see expansion after that for a long time.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
NRL is scared of AFL expansion so decides to bring in another QLD team which I think is extremely gutless. There’s talk of a PNG entering the NRL which is cool and all but fight fire with fire and bring in WA & SA? Tassie? NT?

18th NRL team will be a WA one for sure, and we can probably expect to hear this announced by 2025.

After that I'm not sure how much more expansion the NRL is willing to go, but I think they could become a 20 team comp and give representation to WA and SA.

I'm pretty passionate for Adelaide getting a team, we recently started a movement online to bid for Adelaide's return to the NRL. Either the Adelaide Rams coming back or the North Sydney Bears or Brisbane Firehawks relocate to Adelaide would be a pretty good deal.
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player Hater
Sep 10, 2010
12,674
17,002
Next door
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I'm sure the WAFL is popular to footy fans in WA
They average 1500-2000 people in attendance per game. Outside of the Grand Final, it isn't very popular and never will be again. People will always prefer to watch the AFL.

and you need to keep the local leagues alive to grow the game.
The WAFL isn't going to cease to exist. There's just little point in putting serious investment into it outside of youth and reserves development, both of which could be done without the WAFL.

I'm also a big fan of an NPL style 2nd division competition for Aussie Rules.
Okay, and how will it be paid for?

Maybe there was a misreading here - I didn't say that the AFL should invest in an NRL team in WA. That's ridiculous :smile:
I'm asking why it's relevant to an AFL discussion. You're welcome to go to League Unlimited to discuss NRL expansion. Also, whom are you referring to? No significant stadium investment would be required for another WA team. There probably wouldn't need to be much for an NRL team either to be fair, just a spruce up of Perth Oval.

Tassie will be the 19th team and Canberra the 20th team. It's hard to see expansion after that for a long time.
I agree. Maybe in 2050 we can look at a 3rd Sydney team if GWS does reasonably well. By that time, if grassroots development happens in Newcastle and the city hasn't suffered badly from the collapse of the coal industry, it might be fertile ground for a team too.
 

Sky

Doctor Demise
Feb 14, 2021
3,769
7,825
NT
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Raptors, Storm, Chelsea
18th NRL team will be a WA one for sure, and we can probably expect to hear this announced by 2025.

After that I'm not sure how much more expansion the NRL is willing to go, but I think they could become a 20 team comp and give representation to WA and SA.

I'm pretty passionate for Adelaide getting a team, we recently started a movement online to bid for Adelaide's return to the NRL. Either the Adelaide Rams coming back or the North Sydney Bears or Brisbane Firehawks relocate to Adelaide would be a pretty good deal.
I’m here in Adelaide these days (would rather my own Darwin obviously) but I go for Storm just because. Adelaide Rams is an absolute no go for me because of their hideous aesthetic of which represents the Adelaide Crows. That team stands for nothing and we’d be better off if they were Norwood with the added yellow.

Just being able to attend games by having a team in Adelaide could possibly be enough for me to drop the Storm since I enjoy NRL but don’t particularly care enough because it runs alongside the AFL season.

When you live in a two team town you definitely lean towards one over the other and for me that’s Port Adelaide. A club with history. Anything but Adelaide Rams, or a replacement with its colours because you’re alienating half a state. I’m a neutral living in Adelaide and it’d alienate me.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
I’m here in Adelaide these days (would rather my own Darwin obviously) but I go for Storm just because. Adelaide Rams is an absolute no go for me because of their hideous aesthetic of which represents the Adelaide Crows. That team stands for nothing and we’d be better off if they were Norwood with the added yellow.

I'd be happy supporting any Adelaide based team, whether it be the Rams making a come back, a relocated club from NSW/QLD or a brand new franchise all together. I'm all for the Adelaide Bears, Adelaide Firehawks, Adelaide Falcons - whatever - just get a team here and let it grow.

The blue, red and yellow colours aren't meant to represent the Adelaide Crows. They're the state colours of South Australia and were chosen for that reason. It's not necessary for an Adelaide sporting team to use the state colours but it's the norm. I'm surprised that you'd find the colours of the state you live in alienating.
 
May 24, 2022
536
523
Thailand
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
St Helens R.F.C. | Adelaide T'Birds
I agree. Maybe in 2050 we can look at a 3rd Sydney team if GWS does reasonably well. By that time, if grassroots development happens in Newcastle and the city hasn't suffered badly from the collapse of the coal industry, it might be fertile ground for a team too.

If you're alive by then, go for it :tearsofjoy: Put another team there.
 
Nov 26, 2016
1,478
2,079
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
As I see it, the only real problem with Canberra is the AFL want to milk it for GWS, Like with the Hawks & North in Tassie, until we finally gave them the middle finger.

It's all the AFL seem to understand.

Hopefully the AFL recognise that Canberra is also hamstringing GWS and it's in the best interests for both areas.

There still hasn't been an announcement of a GWS-Canberra deal, so I still hold hope it'll be a shorter contract.
 
Mar 17, 2009
21,636
17,319
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hopefully the AFL recognise that Canberra is also hamstringing GWS and it's in the best interests for both areas.

There still hasn't been an announcement of a GWS-Canberra deal, so I still hold hope it'll be a shorter contract.

If Tas get the deal, then I guess we'll see Tas1 by 2026 at the earliest, I'd think.

If ACT want a team, they should be getting the studies together & be looking to get an application process underway ASAP.

They'd want to get the AFLs attention for the 20th team as soon as Tassie get confirmed.
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
5,063
1,586
It's about time some mods started being fair
AFL Club
Fremantle
Newcastle is about ...

The Black Diamond Cup donated in 1883 and is Australia's longest continuous competition.
There is a long history of Australian Football in Newcastle.
""The extensive redevelopment of the iconic and historic No.1 Sportsground has been completed, solidifying's Newcastle's position as a world-class events city by attracting elite AFL and cricket matches."

Why don't you give up on the ignorant NSW bashing Walswank.
 
Mar 24, 2017
5,016
5,853
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks
The Black Diamond Cup donated in 1883 and is Australia's longest continuous competition.
There is a long history of Australian Football in Newcastle.
""The extensive redevelopment of the iconic and historic No.1 Sportsground has been completed, solidifying's Newcastle's position as a world-class events city by attracting elite AFL and cricket matches."

Why don't you give up on the ignorant NSW bashing Walswank.
Walshwank - very, very clever. Some of your best work. Do you ever post any ideas, or do you prefer just to post contrary to whatever other people posts? I particularly love your most favoured line ''in your opinion''. I mean, who else's opinion would I be espousing?

There is no NSW bashing from me. My family is from NSW, I visit many areas of the state frequently and have a good handle on how popular AF & RL is in various districts. But I am a realist. Blind Freddy can see that the AFL has made serious mistakes with GWS. It is not going well. I would love the see a strong second team in Sydney but change is needed for that to happen. Time along is not going to win over the masses west of Homebush.

Black Diamond is not a high standard comp. How many player have come from Newcastle? I would guess somewhere between none and two in 150 years. And most of the teams in the Black Diamond comp from regional areas outside Newcastle anyway (AFL is more popular on the Central Coas than Newy).

You are right sportsground No. 1 have just had a big upgrade. Seating capacity has doubled (from 400 to 790). Let's play games there. Perhaps base an AFL club there. Good one.

Think about this. Western Sydney has 2.5m people. They get a crowd of 10K to games, perhaps a third of these are opposition supporters (I have been to games there so I have some idea), and a third come from inner Sydney. So, say 3k - 4k out of 2.5m. That is about 0.15% of the population. Newcastle has 600K and a similar interest in AFL. If they had team they would struggle to sell out all 790 seats each week.

Also - there are limited flights in and out of Newcastle. It is two hours from Sydney. No-one is driving up from Melbourne. It would be an unmitigated disaster.

What suggestions to you have RedV3X? (sorry i refuse to stoop as low as you and make up a hilarious name like Walshwank).
 

RedV3x

It's about time some mods started being fair
Dec 14, 2015
5,063
1,586
It's about time some mods started being fair
AFL Club
Fremantle
There is no NSW bashing from me.

LOL.

the AFL has made serious mistakes with GWS.

You can always do better in hindsight but GWS are doing extremely well w.r.t. their start and other factors.
The GWS were well on track but human factors derailed their efforts recently.
With onfield success I'm sure that GWS will develop much further.


How many player have come from Newcastle?

Isaac Heeney (All Australian) played his junior football for the Cardiff Hawks in the Black Diamond Australian Football League.
Your credibility is shot. FFS just shut up.


You are right sportsground No. 1 have just had a big upgrade.

The ground is stated as having 20,000 capacity.
Start having some pre-season games there and get some momentum.
Then do some stadium build - that's the natural order of business.
there are limited flights in and out of Newcastle.

Finally a reasoned remark. Yes, I guess so but with Virgin Australia there is the possibility of "fan flights" as with the Gold coast..

It is two hours from Sydney.

Yes, so not far at all by car, bus or train.

No-one is driving up from Melbourne.

You cannot get the VFL out of your mind can you - who cares.

What suggestions to you have RedV3X?

My suggestion would be to start the process now.
Host some AFLW games and AFL pre-season games there.
Host a NSW Vs Qld state game there with juniors.
Get the NSWAFL development officers up there and around the schools.
Get visitations form the Swans and the Giants players.
Just get the ball rolling.
 
Nov 26, 2016
1,478
2,079
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
If Tas get the deal, then I guess we'll see Tas1 by 2026 at the earliest, I'd think.

If ACT want a team, they should be getting the studies together & be looking to get an application process underway ASAP.

They'd want to get the AFLs attention for the 20th team as soon as Tassie get confirmed.

I'd like to at least see a study into it.

The AFL NT report was only $100k, which isn't much in the scheme of things. Only 4.3% of what we pay GWS every year.

I'd even contribute to get a study done.

There was a study back in 1992 with 51% of those surveyed saying they'd attend games if we got a team and 12% said they'd attend most or all games. If those numbers existed today, we'd average 60k-plus crowds, so even if that number has halved, a modern report should still be favourable to Canberra.

We are, unfortunately, a different scenario to Tasmania. Straddling the Barassi Line, the ACT government has to tip toe around other sports, but a feasibility study is a small ask.
 
Back