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Haha yeh the off field stuff is where we fall short. We should look up to the Pies who have been leaders in that area in the last decade haven't they...?
Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023? Collingwood Ofcourse
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Maybe Carlton are too concerned about the off field visuals and not enough about the core business of winning games of football?
It would be ironic if St. Kilda go past you this year after Ross Lyon was deemed unfit for the Carlton job because 'values'.
Last 20 years have been the same as the first 100 odd years for the Pies?
You have won 4 flags in 80 years, less than third of your total flags
Over the same period you have lost 15 GFs
Worst record of any side
Funny, they would actually equal your record for the last 6 decades
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Changing the topic much? Anyway you eloquently clarified the difference between the Blues and the Pies as teams. Pies historically are just happy to participate.
Pie supporters are really silly bringing up the past
1, Has no relevance to the future
2, We have them covered when revisiting the past
1, Has no relevance to the future
2, We have them covered when revisiting the past
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Funniest thing about these discussions are the fact that Pies fans are laughing at the Blues for not winning when it mattered in the last game of the year - a concept that literally defines Collingwood's entire history
When I talk "past" it is current.
ImHO - botched drafts and poor trading in the last 6-7 years does have an impact on playing list and potential 2023 performance.
On-field performance failures in H&A games when Carlton needed to show something points to a mentally fragile group of players, who still have a losing culture. Another potential impact on 2023 performance.
What do the 1970s and you seeing 7 flags in the VFL days have to do with anything??
Yep, you have a mortgage on trolling about ancient history.
A boring old troll who, like Carlton, is just living off memories and is better ignored these days as they offer no value.
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Don't be mean, poor blokes LOVE their VFL flags, they haven't got much else
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I'm sorry don't you only have the 2 AFL flags? And talking about VFL flags - you have 13/15 of your premierships before 1959...
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In the end good teams make the most of the times when their rivals are down. Since 2000 Carlton has endured it's worst period in history and in that period the Pies have won just the one flag. If we compare that to the down years of the Pies between 1959-1989, Carlton won seven flags (between 1968-1987). So to channel the great Arr0w 7 > 0 (and of course, 16 > 15)
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Pies laugh at Carlton because they havent won anything but spoons (they are bloody good at winning them) for 20 years.
And even funnier that a few nuffie Baggers think flags from 50 years ago are worth bragging about and still makes them a power.
The reality is that Carlton has managed to fail despite the AFL equalisation system designed to not have a team be rubbish for almost a 1/4 of a century...the AFL dont want Carlton being a rabble, this aint a StK no money VFL style battler situation.
The AFL gives battlers best picks - Baggers given 6 top10s from 2015 to 2018 (including two #1s). Thankfully half of those 10 were busts and as a result of SOS' woeful trading (cloggers and injured hacks) the Blues list was shallow and way too reliant on the stars.
They opted to trade out first round picks to bring in mature talent like Saad and Cerra, so surely even the Blues finally participate in finals in 2023 (but still finish below the Pies).
The Blues arent a young team anymore - in 2023 Cripps 29, Doc 30, Saad 29, McGovern 29, Williams 29, J.Martin 28, Hewett 28, Acres 28, Weiterz 26, Curnow 26, McKay 25 even "kids" like TDK will be 24 - they are a win now team.
As a result of trading out recent first rounders, C.Durdin would be the best u22 by output on the list in 2023....not much coming through after Walsh that has shown anything special at AFL level.
If they dont make finals is it time for a new coach? Surely any decent coach should see the Baggers make finals in 2023.
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Carlton were the younger team in 17 of their 22 home and away games. So Carlton relative to the rest of the AFL are still a young team. And no Carlton supporter has said anything but the last 20 years being our worst in history. Pies on the other hand have had a good 20 years with only one premiership to show for it, despite making it in 02, 03, 10, 11 and 18.
That's the thing - it's not a 'good 20 years' for Collingwood. It's consistent with how Collingwood have performed since the competition began in 1897. Regularly in the mix with only short periods of missing finals action, and hated by opposition fans because of it.
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You are correct it is consistent. Losing GFs is consistent with your history.
Carlton were a powerhouse club, no denying it, but what happened after they got penalised for CHEATING?
They have won 0 flags and 5 spoons, does that not make you wonder?
The rest of the league except Essendon have carried on as normal.
They have won 0 flags and 5 spoons, does that not make you wonder?
The rest of the league except Essendon have carried on as normal.
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The club made a lot of errors in 2000s especially with regards to coaches and list management decisions which has led to us having a very poor 20 year period. However, the club in 2023 will be in the best position it has been both on and off the field since 2000. We need to now deliver no doubt.
But why did these so called errors just start after you got caught CHEATING?
It's like 2 time lines, are we to believe this is just a coincidence?
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We got the sanctions which obviously hurt the club and the club had a poor mentality of trying to go for the quick fix with appointments like Malthouse. In 2016 we finally committed to a massive rebuild and yes it has been a long and difficult process due to the significant list turnover, but we are starting to see some of the benefits of it
You see the thing is, I used to have respect for how good Carlton were, but after they got done for CHEATING, it just made me wonder and the respect left.
And guess what? I am not alone with that line of thinking.
Not quite normal mate, it's not normal to pay other clubs star players.
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It doesn't surprise me that opposition fans haven't respected us - our performances since 2000 don't deserve respect. Respect needs to be earnt and I think we started to win some back this year but more improvement is needed to continue that trend
Keep hanging your hat on that, I am wondering how long it takes the Pies to win a flag after destroying player unity, pushing players out and still paying large portions of their salary, wonderful culture
I told you why, the Dogs needed him to keep you from the 8.
And the Dees are worried, they crapped their pants when you got so close, so they asked for help.
In your select 20 year window, that began more than 50 years ago, it was actually 7-0.
It must have been amazing being a Bagger in the 80s. Same as being a Dee would have been amazing in the 60s...the success and flags was never going to stop.
And you do realise that the Pies weren't really "down" in that period?
Played in 37 finals and 9 GFs, in the "down" period, that was more than all clubs bar Carlton and Hawthorn.
The "down" period not really that different to our AFL era period 1990-2019 - 38 finals and 7 GFs.
Losing GFs is shite, but you aint "down" if you are consistently in finals, and actually playing off in GFs.
It is completely different to being a rabble, collecting spoons hand over fist and not even seeing a PF for 20+ years (let alone making a GF) like Carlton.
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