News Brownlow Betting Scandal allegations - 6th Dec Police Widen Investigations

[Aussie_boy]

Probably has been done in the past, and honestly, I don't care one bit. As long as an umpire isn't rigging his actual votes I couldn't care less about him stooging some billion dollar companies out of a few bucks.

I tend to agree, pretty poor look by a professional sporting league and seems like something out of some dodgy 2nd tier South American football league but there are more pressing issues than the bookies essentially being scammed.

 

[Gough]

I've always thought that the AFL is so comfortable getting in bed with gambling companies because the game itself is mostly safe from fixing with the betting pots on a game being relatively small making any serious attempt to rig a game uneconomic given the amount of people they'd have to get involved. That means the vulnerability is always going to be in area like this leaving their overall exposure to potential corruptions fairly small compared to other sports.

 

[JyeDye]

Brownlow Medal: Stats, whacks and umpires getting stuck into each other

It doesn’t attract the fascination of war cabinet decision-making, but the process by which umpires decide on the 3-2-1 Brownlow combination holds mystique.

www.theage.com.au

Thought this was interesting. Umpires don't check the stats after the games before voting. Of course they probably see some on the screens during the games, but they don't just vote off a stats sheet. The votes are only given by the 3 on-field umpires and are discussed with the emergency umpire. So those games he was emergency in he also would have known the votes.

 

[kozi]

I've always thought that the AFL is so comfortable getting in bed with gambling companies because the game itself is mostly safe from fixing with the betting pots on a game being relatively small making any serious attempt to rig a game uneconomic given the amount of people they'd have to get involved. That means the vulnerability is always going to be in area like this leaving their overall exposure to potential corruptions fairly small compared to other sports.

It's the complete opposite. The more prone the game is to fixing the more the AFL wants to get in bed with betting companies for the endless information on it they can provide. Agree with the rest of the post though.

Even now with games relatively safe from fixing, one of the main selling points to justify having "official betting partners" is the bookie works closely with the AFL alerting them of any suspicious activity.

 

[STANTS]

There's no underworld here. It's just Michael Pell telling he's brother and a few mates and they used the information stupidly. The way they did it is so dumb. TAB outlets people no accounts cash only small wins on ecah bet from different TAB outlets. Maybe could still get caught but very hard to join the dots. Yes they have cameras but you need to know to look and how would they.

 

[Aussie_boy]

There's no underworld here. It's just Michael Pell telling he's brother and a few mates and they used the information stupidly. The way they did it is so dumb. TAB outlets people no accounts cash only small wins on ecah bet from different TAB outlets. Maybe could still get caught but very hard to join the dots. Yes they have cameras but you need to know to look and how would they.

Would TAB offer these markets though? I'd say to truly 'cash in' you'd need to bet online with traceability which obviously amplifies the risk involved.

 

[gungho]

Very long bow to draw but.......
The umpire in question was a field umpire in round 6
In that game Freo beat Carlton by 35 points.
The 3 votes goes to Cripps, who did have 32 disposals (but only 10 of those were kicks).
Andrew Brayshaw

8

Andrew Brayshaw

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.3

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.1

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

3.1

4star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

, had 27 disposals (16 kicks, and more clearances than Cripps) and didn't get a single vote - in a team that won by 35 points.
If voting went Brayshaw - 3, Cripps - 1, (As you might expect when a team wins by 35 points) then Brayshaw wins the brownlow.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Very long bow to draw but.......
The umpire in question was a field umpire in round 6
In that game Freo beat Carlton by 35 points.
The 3 votes goes to Cripps, who did have 32 disposals (but only 10 of those were kicks).
Andrew Brayshaw, had 27 disposals (16 kicks, and more clearances than Cripps) and didn't get a single vote - in a team that won by 35 points.
If voting went Brayshaw - 3, Cripps - 1, (As you might expect when a team wins by 35 points) then Brayshaw wins the brownlow.

Check the coaches votes. Cripps received 10, Andy received 8. Brayshaw was due at least 1 vote that game though. Was between them for BOG though, so for Andy to get 0 was a bit of an eyebrow raiser

 

[Arr0w]

Very long bow to draw but.......
The umpire in question was a field umpire in round 6
In that game Freo beat Carlton by 35 points.
The 3 votes goes to Cripps, who did have 32 disposals (but only 10 of those were kicks).
Andrew Brayshaw, had 27 disposals (16 kicks, and more clearances than Cripps) and didn't get a single vote - in a team that won by 35 points.
If voting went Brayshaw - 3, Cripps - 1, (As you might expect when a team wins by 35 points) then Brayshaw wins the brownlow.

And the 3 goals that Cripps kicked?

Not sure the best player of a winning team, means he was the best player on the ground

 

[GROTTO]

If youre doing it properly you would offload on several books to try and hide these big bets, nevertheless they still would stand out given the huge odds.

As I suspected from the get go.....



NonPhixion

Can’t beat the algorithm: The one Brownlow bet that didn’t land

Rather than plonking a few grand on a player to poll three votes in a particular round, the bets have allegedly been spread, divvied up into smaller amounts, and over a short time period via different betting agencies.

www.theage.com.au

From what this column has gleaned, the other three men had allegedly sought to avoid detection for the series of bets. The key to the alleged behaviour was that they spread their bets.

So, rather than plonking a few grand on a player to poll three votes in a particular round, the bets have allegedly been spread, divvied up into smaller amounts, and bet almost simultaneously via different betting agencies.

In theory, spreading the bets on the same outcome would reduce the possibility of the betting agencies smelling a rat. For example, if the bet is, say, $500 or $600 on player X to get the three votes, the smaller amount wouldn’t be such a red flag. The small mercy for the AFL is that all the bets were placed long after the votes had been cast, in a window of a couple of days before the Brownlow count.

 

[GROTTO]

There's no underworld here. It's just Michael Pell telling he's brother and a few mates and they used the information stupidly. The way they did it is so dumb. TAB outlets people no accounts cash only small wins on ecah bet from different TAB outlets. Maybe could still get caught but very hard to join the dots. Yes they have cameras but you need to know to look and how would they.

IIRC They have caught people in the past at the TAB with cameras placing and receiving the wins, cannot recall which sport.

I do agree that would have been the better way to go about it. Greed in the end took over I guess.

 

[GROTTO]

Would TAB offer these markets though? I'd say to truly 'cash in' you'd need to bet online with traceability which obviously amplifies the risk involved.

I havent been to TAB outlet in ages, Im pretty sure though whatever you can bet online is available at an outlet.

 

[kozi]

Very long bow to draw but.......
The umpire in question was a field umpire in round 6
In that game Freo beat Carlton by 35 points.
The 3 votes goes to Cripps, who did have 32 disposals (but only 10 of those were kicks).
Andrew Brayshaw, had 27 disposals (16 kicks, and more clearances than Cripps) and didn't get a single vote - in a team that won by 35 points.
If voting went Brayshaw - 3, Cripps - 1, (As you might expect when a team wins by 35 points) then Brayshaw wins the brownlow.

Let's say Pell hypothetically affected the result and Cripps ended up being stripped of the Brownlow (with it awarded to Neale who was 1 vote behind). The knock on effect would be something to behold.

Bookies would pay out Neale bets (would be a PR disaster not to). There was 10x more money on Neale who was the hot favourite. The bookies who lost out over Pell would lose millions more compared to what he took them for directly over his actions being brought to justice.

tl;dr If this scenario came to fruition, bookies would do the fastest 180 you've ever seen as he was actually doing them all the biggest favour imaginable with Neale not winning it. The last thing they'd want is integrity and justice coming to the party as it would cost them big. What would the AFL do then?

 

[banzai]

Probably has been done in the past, and honestly, I don't care one bit. As long as an umpire isn't rigging his actual votes I couldn't care less about him stooging some billion dollar companies out of a few bucks.

I agree, but if the umpires are doing that, the next step is then rigging the votes to get more value. It would be hard to have one without the other then occuring.

 

[Frank Bunn]

View attachment 1553998
Round-by-round votes.

100% this has to do with Crippa getting snubbed by Cerra for 3 Votes in round 1 after 30 and 3.

AFL website has taken off the names of the umpires for that game but for the other games that round, the umpires are still listed.
View attachment 1553999
Probably one of these 3:

View attachment 1554000

My money is on Gavine since he's the least experienced.

Probably got his mates to dump huge money on Cerra without spreading it out over multiple betting accounts.

It's interesting which umpires have been removed from the AFL match reports.

For round 1 2022
Melbourne v Western Bulldogs (?)
Carlton v Richmond (Roseberry, Gavine, Williamson)

It's naive to think that umpires might be corrupt enough to swing the Brownlow or release information on an already decided outcome - but not be corrupt to influence games.

Who are the umpires in this round 10 game between Carlton and Sydney?

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Would love to hear the logic behind umpires (who can barely get a call right as is) having a constant, irrelevant distraction to their job being a good thing.

But you've already got a players award, a coaches award, 50 media awards, an AA team?

So would love to hear the logic that says that umpires SHOULDN'T? Not just Brownlow but EVERY Australian Rules football comp has this setup remember.

And in my humble opinion, if I'm looking to have a group judge an award that is least influenced by media, fans, sponsors, BT screaming, or the AFL itself, etc, and is least likely to be corrupted or bribed, and least likely to have info leaks, its the umpires.

 

[GROTTO]

And the 3 goals that Cripps kicked?

Not sure the best player of a winning team, means he was the best player on the ground

All three 2nd half goals after the Dockers had already secured a 20pt lead in the 2nd half.

The game was in the balance in the fist half, after which Freo secured control of the game.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

IIRC They have caught people in the past at the TAB with cameras placing and receiving the wins, cannot recall which sport.

I do agree that would have been the better way to go about it. Greed in the end took over I guess.

Heath Shaw didn't like visiting just The Geebung

 

[Arr0w]

All three 2nd half goals after the Dockers had already secured a 20pt lead in the 2nd half.

The game was in the balance in the fist half, after which Freo secured control of the game.

Still has nothing to do with my 2nd sentence

And really, the betting scandal seems to be information given about individual games and who got the votes, rather than if the player was worthy of the votes

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Would love to hear the logic behind umpires (who can barely get a call right as is) having a constant, irrelevant distraction to their job being a good thing.

I don’t think the umpires are focusing on who is best on ground over the 120 minutes of an AFL game.

It is likely an afterthought which is why it can throw up some odd results.

The umpires have their award just like the coaches, just like the players, just like Triple M/Channel 9/Herald Sun. You don’t have to care for it.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Very long bow to draw but.......
The umpire in question was a field umpire in round 6
In that game Freo beat Carlton by 35 points.
The 3 votes goes to Cripps, who did have 32 disposals (but only 10 of those were kicks).
Andrew Brayshaw, had 27 disposals (16 kicks, and more clearances than Cripps) and didn't get a single vote - in a team that won by 35 points.
If voting went Brayshaw - 3, Cripps - 1, (As you might expect when a team wins by 35 points) then Brayshaw wins the brownlow.

Have a look at who your own coach thought was BOG that day.

The Cripps bashing in this thread is rubbish.

To Freo fans, Carlton is not out to get you. It’s okay.

 

[hewetta]

Amazingly dumb of him to leak votes in his very first year as ump. Especially when it's all drilled into them that leaking votes is a big no no. Nice way to throw away a career just so your mates can win a few grand

 

[kozi]

But you've already got a players award, a coaches award, 50 media awards, an AA team?

So would love to hear the logic that says that umpires SHOULDN'T? Not just Brownlow but EVERY Australian Rules football comp has this setup remember.

And in my humble opinion, if I'm looking to have a group judge an award that is least influenced by media, fans, sponsors, BT screaming, or the AFL itself, etc, and is least likely to be corrupted or bribed, and least likely to have info leaks, its the umpires.

The logic that umpires shouldn't: Having an irrelevant distraction to their decision making isn't a good thing, even if it's minor. Making the correct decisions on game day is paramount. Who cares about an award compared to that.

They end up giving votes based off the stats sheet at the end of the game anyway. There's no big diverse input compared to other awards happening due to their expertise.

 

[Bigger]

Still has nothing to do with my 2nd sentence

And really, the betting scandal seems to be information given about individual games and who got the votes, rather than if the player was worthy of the votes

That's the problem with blokes being untrustworthy and corruptible. There's another asterisk next to Cripps' name in the Moral Accounting Version of Brownlow History now.

It's got more taint that a John Stagliano fillum.

 

[Arr0w]

That's the problem with blokes being untrustworthy and corruptible. There's another asterisk next to Cripps' name in the Moral Accounting Version of Brownlow History now.

It's got more taint that a John Stagliano fillum.

Now that’s hilarious