Analysis Would the stand rule still have been introduced if Geelong had won the 2020 premiership?

[Coach_Required]

How good was that bloody grand final. Dusty had the ball on a string.

More Dusty moments please

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Can you cats supporters bloody make up your minds. You say you’ve completely abandoned it but Sttew is acting like you’ve changed nothing. F me it’s enough to drive people crazy.

I’m beginning to think some of you guys have no idea how you changed to actually win 2022. PB and Sky get it, but geez you other guys have no clue.


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It’s almost like we’re all individuals with a range of opinions.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I did too!

Not lost on me, I mentioned on another thread what a taxing game style we had and that it may be a reason why some of our players started getting more injuries.

We don't know that. I mentioned previously how we could beat Port in Adelaide without Dustin, Rance, Reiwoldt and Cotchin because of our system.

I'm not sure port is the greatest yardstick though. Either way, you'll have a new system next year with plenty to work with

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Interesting point, but an interesting stat contradicts: Richmond generally ran less total distance in a game than most teams between 2017 and 20. They knew where to position on field, especially at the G, and had lots of repeat efforts, but ultimately ran less distance than most.

That is an interesting stat. Don't know that it totally contradicts though. Setting up for repeated sprints through smart positioning over endurance running to position will give you less total kms on paper but that doesn't mean it's less taxing

 

[Falcon3518]

It’s almost like we’re all individuals with a range of opinions.

When you can’t identify what your teams gameplan is, that’s a problem. It shows some of you are uniformed or it’s pure bandwagon central.


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[Shadow89]

Zevon as you predicted, it's a s**t fest. Move it to the bay where it belongs

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

When you can’t identify what your teams gameplan is, that’s a problem. It shows some of you are uniformed or it’s pure bandwagon central.


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I haven’t worn a uniform since high school, but sure.

 

[Sky]

Zevon as you predicted, it's a s**t fest. Move it to the bay where it belongs

As I predicted actually mate

 

[Shadow89]

As I predicted actually mate

Touche. I shall call you Nostradamus then

I feel like most Richmond supporters must smack their head everytime a thread like this comes up, and most Geelong supporters smack their head everytime one of us takes the bait. It's a three stooges routine on repeat every week

Get some new material people!

 

[Sky]

Touche. I shall call you Nostradamus then

I feel like most Richmond supporters must smack their head everytime a thread like this comes up, and most Geelong supporters smack their head everytime one of us takes the bait. It's a three stooges routine on repeat every week

Get some new material people!

Our Easter Monday game really should be against who is the most relevant big Victorian at the time. Richmond right now because it ain’t Hawthorn.

Then Carlton sometime soon you’d imagine.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Whatever the rule is, to bring it into the season on the back of no testing, and by bypassing the rules
committee is just lunacy. As was the introduction of the sub-rule which came in the day before the season started …. how does that even happen in a professional sport?

The sub-rule is a joke and soon after its rushed implementation is getting strapped. The stand rule is embarrassing and whether it be 2 more years or 5 it will also be scrapped.

I mean c’mon …. someone has a set shot with the man on the mark 40m out … and the person kicking for goal can just run to the side and kick from basically right next to them. I cringe every time I see it.

The ball movement did not improve due to the stand rule. It improved because coaches saw the Demons winning a flag the same way Richmond won 3 and knew this was what Premiership footy looked like.

I hate to rule, cringe when I hear it 200 times a game “staaaaaaand” and hope it goes away sooner rather than later.



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[Anthony80]

Because every second post in here seems to be from a Richmond supporter convinced the rule was brought in because Richmond had become some mythical footballing creature unable to be defeated and if there had been no rule changes Richmond would have won the next 99 flags.
This thread is more about Richmond than Geelong and everyone with a half a brain knows it.

Anyone with half a brain knows the stand rule is the dumbest rule in world sport, and if the other teams could've manned the mark like Richmond they would've, but because they could only go through the motions on the mark the stand rule was brought in to help them and to hinder Richmond.
As Mark Robinson said to Gerard Whateley on 360 after the '20 GF when they were both at their wits end: "what is their system, it's just pressure isn't it, they can all do that," to which Gerard responded: "if they could, they would."

So was the AFL universe at it's wits end when Richmond (with it's lack of AA representation in comparison to other "dynasty" teams) won it's 3rd flag in 4 years seems to be the question?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

When you can’t identify what your teams gameplan is, that’s a problem. It shows some of you are uniformed or it’s pure bandwagon central.


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That or you might be drawing a slightly long bow.

"Completely different" and "evolution of things already there" aren't necessarily incompatible.

Blitz as a wing ruck we did once in 2020 and then stopped in '21 before bringing it back. We did experiment here and there with highly defensive rotations through the middle at some points in '21 but never really went with it for long. There were some parts that were just new like SDK and the backline mobility or Stengle and the forward line conversion rate.

Some might say that that would all be evolutionary changes and from a perspective they'd be right. I would zoom out to compare % play on from marks and average metres gained per kick. Without looking those stats up I would say "that's a different game style" and from a perspective I'd be right.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Whatever the rule is, to bring it into the season on the back of no testing, and by bypassing the rules
committee is just lunacy. As was the introduction of the sub-rule which came in the day before the season started …. how does that even happen in a professional sport?

The sub-rule is a joke and soon after its rushed implementation is getting strapped. The stand rule is embarrassing and whether it be 2 more years or 5 it will also be scrapped.

I mean c’mon …. someone has a set shot with the man on the mark 40m out … and the person kicking for goal can just run to the side and kick from basically right next to them. I cringe every time I see it.

The ball movement did not improve due to the stand rule. It improved because coaches saw the Demons winning a flag the same way Richmond won 3 and knew this was what Premiership footy looked like.

I hate to rule, cringe when I hear it 200 times a game “staaaaaaand” and hope it goes away sooner rather than later.



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The sub rule is a joke I agree there. Does not meet the intent of why it was brought on

 

[Strange Cat]

Why do you make that assumption?

Because every second post/thread is made by a Richmond supporter with their half baked conspiracies theories unable to move on with the times and want to place blame on an external influence rather than other teams getting better

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Our Easter Monday game really should be against who is the most relevant big Victorian at the time. Richmond right now because it ain’t Hawthorn.

Then Carlton sometime soon you’d imagine.

Nah. Hawthorn every time. The fact that they were a dumpster fire and we were premiers yet they still beat us is all the evidence we need of that

 

[PhatBoy]

Anyone with half a brain knows the stand rule is the dumbest rule in world sport, and if the other teams could've manned the mark like Richmond they would've, but because they could only go through the motions on the mark the stand rule was brought in to help them and to hinder Richmond.
As Mark Robinson said to Gerard Whateley on 360 after the '20 GF when they were both at their wits end: "what is their system, it's just pressure isn't it, they can all do that," to which Gerard responded: "if they could, they would."

So was the AFL universe at it's wits end when Richmond (with it's lack of AA representation in comparison to other "dynasty" teams) won it's 3rd flag in 4 years seems to be the question?

Bahahahahahaha this takes the cake

 

[Noidnadroj]

Is there any actual evidence of this? I have searched high and low for it but the only references to it seem to come from Richmond fans having a pixelated flog online somewhere - ‘I remember an interview with Justin Leppitsch yadayadayada’ but the only evidence I can find of any correlation between the two is that they once appeared on the same podcast.

Additionally, the most minute amount of research will tell you that Hocking didn’t come into the AFL job and start changing rules off his own bat. He was tasked by the AFL specifically to try and make the game more attractive. It’s not like he walked in and said ‘ok guys as a business, we need to shut down this Richmond revival that is making the league millions.’

He was appointed to the job and like any employee he was given responsibilities and trying to make the game better to watch was one of them.

If some teams can adapt to a player being told to stand still for a few seconds I don’t see why others can’t.

It’s not in dispute that Steve Hocking specifically singled out Richmond and Trent Cotchin in particular as being masters at defending the mark and stifling corridor ball movement…. not sure about meeting with Leppa etc..

So a died in the wool Cats man introduces a rule that hinders the way a team plays that his team has just lost to in 3 consecutive finals series … then goes and works for that very same team he loves with a passion a year later.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to see why Richmond supporters are peeved irrespective of the actual motives. It took away a major strength of Richmond and benefited the team he played for, loves, and now works for.

Let’s put it this way …. Benny Gale goes and works for the AFL. Introduces a rule after the Cats win 3 flags and says “I don’t like the way Tom Stewart and Sam DeKoning are able to defend as a spare man”… brings in rule that hinders Geelong and helps Richmond, a year later goes back to work at Richmond and holds the cup aloft.

Irrespective of true motives, the process and conflict stinks to high heaven.



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[PhatBoy]

It’s not in dispute that Steve Hocking specifically singled out Richmond and Trent Cotchin in particular as being masters at defending the mark and stifling corridor ball movement…. not sure about meeting with Leppa etc..

So a died in the wool Cats man introduces a rule that hinders the way a team plays that his team has just lost to in 3 consecutive finals series … then goes and works for that very same team he loves with a passion a year later.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to see why Richmond supporters are peeved irrespective of the actual motives. It took away a major strength of Richmond and benefited the team he played for, loves, and now works for.

Let’s put it this way …. Benny Gale goes and works for the AFL. Introduces a rule after the Cats win 3 flags and says “I don’t like the way Tom Stewart and Sam DeKoning are able to defend as a spare man”… brings in rule that hinders Geelong and helps Richmond, a year later goes back to work at Richmond and holds the cup aloft.

Irrespective of true motives, the process and conflict stinks to high heaven.



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Well I do.

Because anyone with a modicum of common sense understands that someone appointed to the roles he has been appointed to doesn’t get those roles if he has a history of letting personal issues get in the way of something he is tasked with doing.

If Ben Gale did that because there was a general consensus that it was negatively impacting the game then good luck to him.

Teams find ways to deal with it.

Using someone as an example isn’t proof of a conspiracy it’s proof that they need to use someone as an example.

 

[Zevon]

Zevon as you predicted, it's a s**t fest. Move it to the bay where it belongs

As I predicted actually mate

Definitely some spot fires breaking out but I’ve seen far worse threads than this. Despite the squabbles there has actually been some decent discussion about the rule itself, which is the whole point of the main board - genuine football discussion.

For that reason it gets to stay open but I agree it would be nice if people could check their egos at the door. We have a place for team supporters to banter and throw mud at each other; this ain’t it.

 

[STPer18]

The Hocking masterplan.

 

[Cdog71]

If the man on the mark was allowed to move when he recognises if the player moves off the line rather than waiting for permission from the umpire lit would be alot fairer. If he plays on then the ball has re-entered the game and every player should have an equal opportunity to compete.

If the 50 mtr penalty remains in place players won’t want to stuff it up.

I don’t give a sh.t about Geelong this is interference in the natural flow of the game and stops players from being able to play their best.

It should not be allowed that the umpire can hold one player back when the ball is in play.

 

[Grin]

Because anyone with a modicum of common sense understands that someone appointed to the roles he has been appointed to doesn’t get those roles if he has a history of letting personal issues get in the way of something he is tasked with doing.

Interestingly, Hocking was keen to keep the role until season's end and transition straight to the Cats. Gillon told him if he accepted the role at Geelong, he'd need to resign straight away (about July I think) due to the conflict of interest. If it were left up to Hocking, he would have stayed, having no awareness of the conflict. Says something about the bloke I reckon.

 

[PhatBoy]

Interestingly, Hocking was keen to keep the role until season's end and transition straight to the Cats. Gillon told him if he accepted the role at Geelong, he'd need to resign straight away (about July I think) due to the conflict of interest. If it were left up to Hocking, he would have stayed, having no awareness of the conflict. Says something about the bloke I reckon.

Does it say something about the 50+ NRL players at any given time who have a contract with another team for the following season?

 

[Boxhead_31]

The fact is it was brought in to stop Richmond working the mark and to prompt teams to move the ball quicker and do what all commentators used to say should be done when the game was getting away from a team in the last, and that is, to take risks and move the ball quicker, only what sort of risk is it when the man on the mark is a "statue"? No risk, so basically the AFL helped Richmond's opponents (Geelong in particular) when they couldn't help themselves before the stand rule.

I'm sure we all remember Whateley after Richmond beat Geelong in the '20 GF saying "we've all seen this movie before."

When Richmond played Geelong in rnd 15 this season and got to a 17pt lead in the 4th it looked exactly like that movie we'd all seen before, but this time the man on the mark was a "statue." So Geelong knowing why the rule was brought in and remembering what they trialed at KP knew what they had to do to avoid a repeat of the '20 GF, and that is move the ball quicker because there is no risk when the man on the mark is a "statue."

So that's the story of how Geelong won the '22 GF because of Steve Hocking, in my opinion the coach of the year in '21 & '22.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying, this is the Geelong way.

So, how did you get to a 17pt lead with the stand rule hampering you so much?