Analysis Would the stand rule still have been introduced if Geelong had won the 2020 premiership?

[Falcon3518]

Last decade. Get with the times. Richmond hasn't won a final this decade. Maybe they might have but for the stand rule

2020 is the start of the decade mate


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[Anthony80]

No, you haven’t acknowledged s**t. You’ve excused it.

This is wrong, I have acknowledged it.

They have been allowed to be whatever version they want to be under the same regulations as 17 other teams and they couldn’t manage it.

But under the same regulations as 17 other teams before the stand rule no one could manage to do what Richmond was doing, because just like Whateley said: "if they could, they would." They couldn't, so they had to get a leg up from the AFL. That's the way I see it, you don't have to agree, but you also shouldn't feel the need to defend 22 players that don't even know ya from some anonymous guy on BigFooty. Please allow this to be my last comment on this thread.

 

[Anthony80]

Sorry, are you suggesting that the AFL media actually do serious journalism and ask hard questions of the AFL?

I thought everyone knew the media were a bunch o' sycophants!

 

[Grin]

The quote there sure makes it seem like a potential conflict of interest was identified and avoided ahead of time. Integrity demonstrated

I don't think any of the rule changes were directly aimed at Richmond. I think it was more about playing styles and tactics that other clubs had already adopted (before or after Richmond did) or were quickly doing so. But I don't think you can argue that Richmond was more affected by the rule changes than any other club.

EG:
1/ 6:6:6 was designed to stop teams positioning behind the ball at the bounce. A tactic that many teams used but one that Richmond employed far more than any other club. Twice as often as their nearest rival from memory.

2/ The no prior opportunity ruck rule. This one was directly related to Richmond employing the use of non ruckman in the ruck, specifically Grigg. By not allowing the Ruck the option of possessing the ball rather than just tapping it, it negated much of the advantage of the taller player. So the rule change allows the ruckman to possess the ball and if immediately tackled, he is now deemed to have had no prior opportunity.

3/ The kicking out after a behind changes was aimed at reducing the forward press. Again a tactic employed by Richmond more than others but was being very rapidly incorporated into the tactics of most teams.

4/ The stand rule. Being discussed here.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. In fact I think the first 2 were good changes that have improved the game. The stand rule I don't really agree with but I can see what they were trying to achieve. It has been too strictly enforced and the penalty very severe IMO, but at the time it did appear to disadvantage clubs with Richmond's playing style and advantage teams with Geelong's. So one could argue that there was a perceived conflict of interest, even if it was no more than a perception.

 

[Anthony80]

It's not my club, it's the sport that is wrong.....

Now some common sense is coming into play!

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

2020 is the start of the decade mate


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Opinion is divided on that.

The New Decade: Did It Begin in 2020 or Will It Start In 2021?

There's been some debate over when we officially ring in the new decade. Did it happen in 2020 or does it start on January 1, 2021? We explain.

www.farmersalmanac.com

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

We all know (even you) the reason that Richmond aren't the best version of themselves though.

Arrogance?

 

[Sttew]

2020 is the start of the decade mate


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Is it? Let me educate you....once again. There was no year '0'. 2021 was the start of the new decade; 1 January 2021 was the first day of the new decade. Do some research and stop embarrassing yourself

 

[PhatBoy]

This is wrong, I have acknowledged it.

But under the same regulations as 17 other teams before the stand rule no one could manage to do what Richmond was doing, because just like Whateley said: "if they could, they would." They couldn't, so they had to get a leg up from the AFL. That's the way I see it, you don't have to agree, but you also shouldn't feel the need to defend 22 players that don't even know ya from some anonymous guy on BigFooty. Please allow this to be my last comment on this thread.

So in 2018, 2016 years either side of Richmond winning, what happened those years? Richmond just chose not to turn up?



What an abortion of an argument. Utterly woeful.

Don’t blame the players, blame the game

 

[Falcon3518]

Is it? Let me educate you....once again. There was no year '0'. 2021 was the start of the new decade; 1 January 2021 was the first day of the new decade. Do some research and stop embarrassing yourself

What years did the decade of the 80s comprise of? I’m waiting

You might also wanna call up the media who said it’s the start of a new decade in the 2020 NY celebration. Everybody else has clearly gotten it wrong.

Also were you 1 year old when you were born were you? Cause people use months in the ‘year 0’


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[Anthony80]

So in 2018, 2016 years either side of Richmond winning, what happened those years? Richmond just chose not to turn up?

In 2016 we had frustrating season, I believe it had something to do with those 3 EF losses. In '17 though we freshened things up with the arrival of Caddy, Dion and Toby and did what we should've in '13, '14, '15, '16, '18, '21 and '22.

In 2018 Collingwood beat us in a PF because we had the flu. How I believe we got the flu is interesting, but I wont bother you guys with that, youse aren't ready to hear it.

The saying is "don't hate the player, hate the game." But I understand what you're trying to say, the AFL shouldn't of hated Richmond before the stand rule, but rather the game? I think you're almost there!

 

[Gavin Excell]

Has scoring increased (across the competition) last 2 years?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

But you guys had to change the system to win a flag. Why did Richmond need to change their system, a system so good that our lack of AA representation compared to other "dynasty" teams speaks to how good our system was. You know we won a flag no one thought we could in '19 without Rance, why, because of our system.

How easy is it though to "play on from anywhere" when the man on the mark is a statue? I ask myself how many goals Steven Kolyniuk may of scored if the stand rule was around in his day?

You know what, this is a pointless discussion. There's nothing I could say that would dissuade you from being a professional victim here. Please take up the discussion with infowars

 

[Area51]

It's not just the advantage that comes from a style of play as if there is an equal number of defending the mark situations across all teams. The number of times these situations occur during the game varies across teams. Has anyone got stats on the stand the mark differential for each team? Which team do you think stands the mark most? Is anyone seeing a pattern here?

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

I actually enjoyed it. Richmond when they were at their peak were fierce.

I think the part that is lost on lot of their fans was the degree to which they relied on sheer running capacity. 5 years of pure gut running and they were just out of gas. The timing of the rule change just gives them an easy out rather than confronting the fact that what they did before won't work anymore.

They'll get over it next year with a new midfield and a new game style.

Nah Richmond Union was bogshite.

 

[PhatBoy]

In 2016 we had frustrating season, I believe it had something to do with those 3 EF losses. In '17 though we freshened things up with the arrival of Caddy, Dion and Toby and did what we should've in '13, '14, '15, '16, '18, '21 and '22.

In 2018 Collingwood beat us in a PF because we had the flu. How I believe we got the flu is interesting, but I wont bother you guys with that, youse aren't ready to hear it.

The saying is "don't hate the player, hate the game." But I understand what you're trying to say, the AFL shouldn't of hated Richmond before the stand rule, but rather the game? I think you're almost there!

Oh so now it’s the flu AND the stand rule that is your excuse.

No chance they just played better than you on the day.


And I know what the saying is genius. Unlike Richmond I can adapt though

 

[Sttew]

Oh so now it’s the flu AND the stand rule that is your excuse.

No chance they just played better than you on the day.


And I know what the saying is genius. Unlike Richmond I can adapt though

Yet Geelong was mocked when it was revealed 1/3 of the team had gastro on the eve of the '21 PF. Still, we lost the game to the eventual premiers and that is all that history records.

According to Richmond supporters - well, some, the final 2022 ladder should read as follows:

1. Geelong
2. Sydney Swans
3. Brisbane
4. Collingwood
5. Fremantle
6. Melbourne
7. Richmond , *, ***
8. Western Bulldogs

* Cheated by Stand rule
** Cheated by ARC, Umpires and everyone else
*** Because of * and ** Richmond should have been premiers

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

In 2016 we had frustrating season, I believe it had something to do with those 3 EF losses. In '17 though we freshened things up with the arrival of Caddy, Dion and Toby and did what we should've in '13, '14, '15, '16, '18, '21 and '22.

In 2018 Collingwood beat us in a PF because we had the flu. How I believe we got the flu is interesting, but I wont bother you guys with that, youse aren't ready to hear it.

The saying is "don't hate the player, hate the game." But I understand what you're trying to say, the AFL shouldn't of hated Richmond before the stand rule, but rather the game? I think you're almost there!

"How I believe we got the flu is interesting, but I wont bother you guys with that"

Oh, don't tease us like that. I for one want to know this story. It sounds incredible!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

"How I believe we got the flu is interesting, but I wont bother you guys with that"

Oh, don't tease us like that. I for one want to know this story. It sounds incredible!

Tucker Carlson said it came out of a CIA bioweapons lab in Ukraine and I think that's about all the evidence we need

 

[Sttew]

Tucker Carlson said it came out of a CIA bioweapons lab in Ukraine and I think that's about all the evidence we need

But what people didn't know is that Steve Hocking back packed through that part of Ukraine 17 years earlier.

I think I've said too much

 

[Anthony80]

No chance they just played better than you on the day.

Every chance they may of even if we didn't have the flu. They beat us in '19 when there was still no stand rule. I know how tough Collingwood is believe me.

And I know what the saying is genius. Unlike Richmond I can adapt though

But it would be stupid of me to blame the players when they weren't allowed to be the best version of themselves, so blame the stand rule it has to be.

Has scoring increased (across the competition) last 2 years?

No!

Avgs:
2021 79
2022 83

2017 89
2018 83
2019 80

1980 105
1974 92
1973 95
1969 97
1967 78

It wasn't brought in to increase scoring though, it was brought in to prompt other teams to move the ball quicker when under the previous set of rules only Richmond could.

 

[Falcon3518]

Oh so now it’s the flu AND the stand rule that is your excuse.

No chance they just played better than you on the day.


And I know what the saying is genius. Unlike Richmond I can adapt though

The flu and Dusty injury were a factor in 2018. But that’s footy. Happens all the time, Hawkins didn’t play in the 2019 prelim cause he got suspended. Maybe you would’ve won with him in, who knows.


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[Anthony80]

Oh, don't tease us like that. I for one want to know this story. It sounds incredible!

There is actually proof of someone jokingly saying what he would do well before that PF. You know the saying "behind every joke there is some truth"? Believe me, we got stitched up in '18.
This isn't the thread for it though, and I really don't want to derail this thread like you idiots did the Hardwick thread with comments about his, Rohan's and Phat Boy's scandalous affairs.

 

[Anthony80]

Hawkins didn’t play in the 2019 prelim cause he got suspended. Maybe you would’ve won with him in, who knows.


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We weren't even supposed to be there without Rance (for the whole season) in '19.
We beat Geelong in '19 even with Hawkins because of our system. Now, if the stand rule was around in '19 then I'd say Geelong win with or without Hawkins.

 

[PhatBoy]

Every chance they may of even if we didn't have the flu. They beat us in '19 when there was still no stand rule. I know how tough Collingwood is believe me.

But it would be stupid of me to blame the players when they weren't allowed to be the best version of themselves, so blame the stand rule it has to be.

No!

Avgs:
2021 79
2022 83

2017 89
2018 83
2019 80

1980 105
1974 92
1973 95
1969 97
1967 78

It wasn't brought in to increase scoring though, it was brought in to prompt other teams to move the ball quicker when under the previous set of rules only Richmond could.

But this not allowing them to be the best version of themselves, that only effected Richmond yeah?

Like the team who was the second best in 2020 and clearly could play under the previous rule - they went backwards from leading a grand final at half time and got buttf***ed in a preliminary final after the rule came in: they weren’t impacted by it and WERE allowed to be the best version of themselves. Is that what you’re saying now?

Your parameters for what sort of impact this had and on whom are growing increasingly vague, almost like you’re… looking for something…. Looking for…..an….. excuse me for a moment