NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[perplexed]

Yeah. Really serious allegations against a club, surely it's the AFL who should be investigating and Hawks should be doing nothing other than co-operating. I really can't understand what's being alluded to. What should they have done?

Yes, they handed over the report as recommended, but other than that they seem keen to avoid taking any further action themselves. The third recommendation was 'that HFC undertake further investigations into the operations of the Football Department regarding their treatment of all players to establish whether the unethical practices were more widespread, condoned and accepted as normal practice from the Board and Administration.'

They don't seem to be pursuing this at all. Not sure about the extent to which the AFL investigation is doing this either.

 

[sr36]

Yes, they handed over the report as recommended, but other than that they seem keen to avoid taking any further action themselves. The third recommendation was 'that HFC undertake further investigations into the operations of the Football Department regarding their treatment of all players to establish whether the unethical practices were more widespread, condoned and accepted as normal practice from the Board and Administration.'

They don't seem to be pursuing this at all. Not sure about the extent to which the AFL investigation is doing this either.

If inappropriate conduct is found, the ToR are to investigate who knew, sanctioned, or should have known about the conduct.

I don't think the report recommendations are what the Hawks should be following at this stage - surely there's a procedure in terms of an AFL Integrity Unit? I'm surprised that it's suggested that they should be taking action other than co-operating.

 

[perplexed]

If inappropriate conduct is found, the ToR are to investigate who knew, sanctioned, or should have known about the conduct.

I don't think the report recommendations are what the Hawks should be following at this stage - surely there's a procedure in terms of an AFL Integrity Unit? I'm surprised that it's suggested that they should be taking action other than co-operating.

It was recommended that they take additional action, they haven't. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the AFL investigation is going to cover all Hawthorn players of this period either, just the few interviewed by Egan.

Hawthorn went on a fishing expedition not expecting to catch anything. So far they have only tried one type of bait.

 

[sr36]

It was recommended that they take additional action, they haven't. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the AFL investigation is going to cover all Hawthorn players of this period either, just the few interviewed by Egan.

Hawthorn went on a fishing expedition not expecting to catch anything. So far they have only tried one type of bait.

At this stage, my view is that they should be responding to the AFL integrity unit - so if they are telling them to investigate all players, they should.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Yeah. Really serious allegations against a club, surely it's the AFL who should be investigating and Hawks should be doing nothing other than co-operating. I really can't understand what's being alluded to. What should they have done?

Sounds to me like we're being prepped for a fall guy.

 

[sr36]

Sounds to me like we're being prepped for a fall guy.

The thing is, the way the ToR have been written, the Hawks can't be the fall guy unless individuals fall first. Governance only becomes relevant if inappropriate conduct occurred.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Jackson printed the claim ... "he told me to kill my unborn kid" ... under a headline that screamed "demanded a pregnancy termination."

I'm not sure where the issue with me saying "lurid allegations about forced abortions" is.

That's literally Jackson and Egan's big claim ... Clarkson was trying to force them to have abortions.

Or is it a case that the reporting wasn't clear and led to misconceptions for the reader, creating false impressions?

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Egan hasn’t made any claims, he conducted interviews and compiled a report at the request of the HFC.

 

[sr36]

& have the Hawks responsible just not Clarko.

Jackson then Egan then Kennett and now the Hawks in general.

 

[sr36]

It’s just such a weird thing to make up, especially for a journalist…

Jackson didn't make up the claim - it's in the review as well.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Jackson didn't make up the claim - it's in the review as well.

I didn’t say he did, I was talking about Simpkins claims about egan, and that he (Simpkin) claims to be a journalist

 

[sr36]

I didn’t say he did, I was talking about Simpkins claims about egan, and that he (Simpkin) claims to be a journalist

No I mean even simpkin isn't claiming that he made it up. He's claiming the player did.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

No I mean even simpkin isn't claiming that he made it up. He's claiming the player did.

I didn’t say that either? I said Egan made no claims, that’s it.

 

[sr36]

I didn’t say that either? I said Egan made no claims, that’s it.

Sorry misuderstood.

 

[owen87]

He’s not so desperate as to resort to capslock…

I can multi-task, I used shift.

 

[QuietB]

Yeah. Really serious allegations against a club, surely it's the AFL who should be investigating and Hawks should be doing nothing other than co-operating. I really can't understand what's being alluded to. What should they have done?

What Essendon did I guess. Lose the spreadsheets. Lose all the player records. Destroy any evidence.

 

[Psicosis]

The big question is where the leaks came from. How did the ABC find out and how did the HUN get a copy.

Hawthorn’s contractual warning to Clarkson

Hawthorn have cautioned Alastair Clarkson about not violating his contractual obligations to the Hawks - under which he is still owed $450,000 - before the four-time premiership coach officially takes over at North Melbourne.

www.theage.com.au

6 days later...

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Yes, big question...

 

[sr36]

View attachment 1559670

Hawthorn’s contractual warning to Clarkson

Hawthorn have cautioned Alastair Clarkson about not violating his contractual obligations to the Hawks - under which he is still owed $450,000 - before the four-time premiership coach officially takes over at North Melbourne.

www.theage.com.au

6 days later...

View attachment 1559672

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Yes, big question...

I don't get what you're suggesting?

 

[Osho]

View attachment 1559670

Hawthorn’s contractual warning to Clarkson

Hawthorn have cautioned Alastair Clarkson about not violating his contractual obligations to the Hawks - under which he is still owed $450,000 - before the four-time premiership coach officially takes over at North Melbourne.

www.theage.com.au

6 days later...

View attachment 1559672

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Yes, big question...

Memories flooding back of corporate shenanigans, contending agendas, bs, backstabbing, and other assorted Machiavelliphernalia I experienced at work at one time. Gives me a head pain just thinking about it. There must be a better way to make a living.

 

[Psicosis]

I don't get what you're suggesting?

I'm suggesting that specifically Kennett was involved in the leaking of the report.

 

[sr36]

I'm suggesting that specifically Kennett was involved in the leaking of the report.

Because he was pissed off with Clarko?

 

[Psicosis]

Because he was pissed off with Clarko?

One of multiple reasons.

 

[Osho]

I'm suggesting that specifically Kennett was involved in the leaking of the report.

I understood your suggestion was that SOMEONE at Hawks leaked the report to spite Alistair, however, Kennett doing so could easily blow up in his own face. I was thinking someone else with no link to the Aborigine players' scandal.

 

[sr36]

One of multiple reasons.

I'm struggling to see him throwing the whole club under the bus. Hawks were bloody lucky that Jackson chose to name the coaches, otherwise it wouldn't have been Clarkson it would have been Hawthorn.

 

[blackshadow]

Literally no one has played down the seriousness of the allegations

Exactly.

I’ve definitely questioned the credibility of the Jackson article because quite frankly it’s highly questionable.

I believe he printed what he was told but he did absolutely nothing to frame the context of the allegations. It was a lazy article designed to create headlines and his shoddy handling has now meant that the complainants have been put under the spotlight when they don’t want to be.

A competent journalist wouldn’t have handled it that way.

 

[The Warlord]

Egan hasn’t made any claims, he conducted interviews and compiled a report at the request of the HFC.

Fair point, but it is also a bit more nuanced.

Egan actually places himself in the report as a key player.

He says people spoke to him due to the "profile and respect" he has in the community.

He talks about using yarning where the researcher is an active participant in driving the discussion.

You're framing this as a very clean and legalistic procedure, that you'd get had Hawthorn hired a big 4 firm to do it.

It wasn't that at all, it was a very different process. Egan says it was culturally safe and that's how he got revelations that some 29 year old working for KPMG probably wouldn't.

But Amy's lawyer also says she now has concerns about its cultural safety.

It's hugely nuanced and complex.