Review Winners and losers 2022 draft

[Blackhawk42]

The reason that Kinnear is cranky is because the media always goes out of its way to create "Sydney are the bad guy" narratives around our trading, drafting, and academy, and as evidenced by this thread it's clear that plenty of idiots buy into those narratives.

None of the talking head "draft experts" have much in the way of expertise or knowledge to impart so have to rely on manufactured drama to fill air time, and it's clearly a frustration to a no-bullshit type like Kinnear. It must be like having a PHD and talking astrophysics with a bunch of giggling high school girls.

I'm still pretty stunned that he apparently rated Vickery as the 12th top talent on the Swans draft board.

An undersized back flanker with no contested game.

I hope for both team and individual that he churns out a great career, but if you scan the top 20 and consider Vickery the 12th best talent I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.


PS. I actually can't remember where I heard the number 12 quoted, but if anyone remembers and can back me up that would be swell.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I'm still pretty stunned that he apparently rated Vickery as the 12th top talent on the Swans draft board.

An undersized back flanker with no contested game.

I hope for both team and individual that he churns out a great career, but if you scan the top 20 and consider Vickery the 12th best talent I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.


PS. I actually can't remember where I heard the number 12 quoted, but if anyone remembers and can back me up that would be swell.

Yeah was 12 on our board apparently, was surprised but lets be real it thinned out after 10 so the next 30 were all close. Have to trust Beatson and Darymple who rarely get it wrong.

 

[master bate]

I'm still pretty stunned that he apparently rated Vickery as the 12th top talent on the Swans draft board.

An undersized back flanker with no contested game.

I hope for both team and individual that he churns out a great career, but if you scan the top 20 and consider Vickery the 12th best talent I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion.


PS. I actually can't remember where I heard the number 12 quoted, but if anyone remembers and can back me up that would be swell.

After talking up the top 7 too as being a cut above and with a draft having a pretty clear cut top 12 for most teams. I assume that means the Swans probably only had at most 8 or so of the first 13 guys, because Rowston, Michalanney and Konstanty had to be on their list unless he's lying about them or they were very confident Vickery gets to 27.

1-3: Ashcroft, Cadman, Humphrey
4 -8: Only 5 of Sheezel, Wardlaw, Tsatas, McKenzie, Clark, Ginbey, Philloupou, Hollands, Fletcher, Busslinger

Possibly none of Hewett, Jefferson, Weddle, Allan, Jones, Gruzewski, Barnett, Clarke, Hayes, George

9-11:Rowston, Michaelanney, Konstanty
12: Vickery

Bold names are just a guess. Maybe Sheezel is off their board for go home? Maybe Wardlaw and Buss for injuries? Still, there's a lot of missing names

 

[HeHateMe]

Might have something to do with where Vickery was drafted from. I think it's perceived the some Vic country regions are less likely to have a go home factor then other regions across Australia. Gippsland Power probably falls into that category.

 

[Mrash]

Winners:
North. Were already one of the winners from the mega trade, and turned JHF & Pick 1 into arguably the two highest rated players in the open pool, both Victorians, as well as getting an F1. Like the George pick too.
Brisbane. Bid coming at No.2 for Ashcroft meant they didn't have to go into deficit in 2023. Winning.
WCE. Turning 2 into 8 & 12 was very shrewd, given the flight risk of Wardlaw, Sheezel, Tsatas. Two local kids in 1st round is a win. Barnett just whats needed to replace Nic Nat.
Saints. Pou could be the steal of the draft.
Ess (Kinda). Later than expected bid for Davey Jnr is a win. Feel like they desperately wanted to slide back in the top 10 tho and grab Pou, but couldn't find any buyers.

Losers:
GWS. Had a bounty of picks from Taranto/Hopper, but feel like they didn't capitalise. Early Rowston bid hurts.
Hawks. Overpaid to get Weddle.

 

[FB19]

Winners:
North. Were already one of the winners from the mega trade, and turned JHF & Pick 1 into arguably the two highest rated players in the open pool, both Victorians, as well as getting an F1. Like the George pick too.
Brisbane. Bid coming at No.2 for Ashcroft meant they didn't have to go into deficit in 2023. Winning.
WCE. Turning 2 into 8 & 12 was very shrewd, given the flight risk of Wardlaw, Sheezel, Tsatas. Two local kids in 1st round is a win. Barnett just whats needed to replace Nic Nat.
Saints. Pou could be the steal of the draft.
Ess (Kinda). Later than expected bid for Davey Jnr is a win. Feel like they desperately wanted to slide back in the top 10 tho and grab Pou, but couldn't find any buyers.

Losers:
GWS. Had a bounty of picks from Taranto/Hopper, but feel like they didn't capitalise. Early Rowston bid hurts.
Hawks. Overpaid to get Weddle.

Sorry norf traded 2 pick 1s for 2-3 that’s no win. Then you could argue from that point they slightly won because of George getting to 26 but that’s. all the other 3 picks were exactly what they expected going in. Same with lions did what’s expected minimal gains by avoiding deficit but as they traded out of the first 2 rounds it hardly matters.
Hawks didn’t lose, reference your trade to get f2 from port for a 2 pick slide back from 12-14 last year. we moved up 9 picks into round 1 for an f2’and f3. Once you decide to live trade you pay a hefty price.

 

[Sphynx]

Sorry norf traded 2 pick 1s for 2-3 that’s no win. Then you could argue from that point they slightly won because of George getting to 26 but that’s. all the other 3 picks were exactly what they expected going in. Same with lions did what’s expected minimal gains by avoiding deficit but as they traded out of the first 2 rounds it hardly matters.
Hawks didn’t lose, reference your trade to get f2 from port for a 2 pick slide back from 12-14 last year. we moved up 9 picks into round 1 for an f2’and f3. Once you decide to live trade you pay a hefty price.

We didn’t trade 2 pick 1’s for 2&3.

There’s an extra first rounder next year that will have another name attached to the trade this time next year.

 

[FB19]

We didn’t trade 2 pick 1’s for 2&3.

There’s an extra first rounder next year that will have another name attached to the trade this time next year.

Sorry you are right. Just getting tired of people saying how well sides did with high picks and how poorly sides did with lower picks of course if you have good picks you will most likely get good players. You have to evaluate how they used those picks against a reasonable expectation. My point was of course north did well but that was by having picks 2-3 and a late f/s not by picking the eyes out of the draft, their drafting course was largely set. George looks like a good get at 26 but also a risk but one IMO worth taking.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Losers
Hawks. Overpaid to get Weddle.

"Our Head of Football Rob McCartney, along with the recruiting team led by Mark McKenzie, had dinner the night before the draft. It was asked what our best case scenario for the night was and I replied that, although it was unlikely, if we could get both Cam Mackenzie and Josh Weddle, it would be a home run."


Sam Mitchell sent this to members in an email.

 

[lewdogs]

"Our Head of Football Rob McCartney, along with the recruiting team led by Mark McKenzie, had dinner the night before the draft. It was asked what our best case scenario for the night was and I replied that, although it was unlikely, if we could get both Cam Mackenzie and Josh Weddle, it would be a home run."


Sam Mitchell sent this to members in an email.

You got who you wanted but you did give up a fair bit for him.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You got who you wanted but you did give up a fair bit for him.

Still have selections in the first 3 rounds of next year's draft, including our own first.

 

[Sphynx]

Still have selections in the first 3 rounds of next year's draft, including our own first.

Which is largely irrelevant to everyone’s point.

You could have walked away with Ryan/Cowan, 2 x F2’s and 2 x F3’s, including your own first.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Which is largely irrelevant to everyone’s point.

You could have walked away with Ryan/Cowan, 2 x F2’s and 2 x F3’s, including your own first.

We didn't rate Ryan or Cowan in the same tier as Weddle. Different players regardless, so the example is pointless.

You aren't aware of the 3 year drafting plan outlined by Sam Mitchell and Mark McKenzie, but I'm sure even if I explained it you'd still just say we overpaid and made a mistake acquiring Josh Weddle.

 

[Sphynx]

We didn't rate Ryan or Cowan in the same tier as Weddle. Different players regardless, so the example is pointless.

You aren't aware of the 3 year drafting plan outlined by Sam Mitchell and Mark McKenzie, but I'm sure even if I explained it you'd still just say we overpaid and made a mistake acquiring Josh Weddle.

Understandable you didn’t rate Cowan or Ryan in the same tier, but you’ve paid a very high price to move up some marginal tiers in a pretty even draft.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Understandable you didn’t rate Cowan or Ryan in the same tier, but you’ve paid a very high price to move up some marginal tiers in a pretty even draft.

It isn't a high price if the Dogs and Hawks, as an example, finish in identical spots on the ladder next season.

We also just proved that we are happy to be active on draft night with trades. If we finish spooners and the Dogs win the flag, there is nothing stopping us trading future picks to improve our hand in 2023.

The fact we have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick still loaded for next season PLUS landed our highly rated target in Weddle is a great outcome.

 

[FB19]

It isn't a high price if the Dogs and Hawks, as an example, finish in identical spots on the ladder next season.

We also just proved that we are happy to be active on draft night with trades. If we finish spooners and the Dogs win the flag, there is nothing stopping us trading future picks to improve our hand in 2023.

The fact we have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick still loaded for next season PLUS landed our highly rated target in Weddle is a great outcome.

We paid a high price but everyone who live trades for early picks does. In context, port traded a f2 to eagles to move from 14 to 12. The debate isn’t did the hawks overpay it is whether we should have live traded at our point in our rebuild, as live trading is what made us “overpay” not that by comparison to other live trades we overpaid.

 

[adonski]

You need to pay overs to move up the draft board, or else there's no incentive for a club to trade down or push their pick(s) out to the following year
And every time a team does, someone says "I can't believe they paid overs!"

 

[Warwick]

Sorry norf traded 2 pick 1s for 2-3 that’s no win. Then you could argue from that point they slightly won because of George getting to 26 but that’s. all the other 3 picks were exactly what they expected going in. Same with lions did what’s expected minimal gains by avoiding deficit but as they traded out of the first 2 rounds it hardly matters.
Hawks didn’t lose, reference your trade to get f2 from port for a 2 pick slide back from 12-14 last year. we moved up 9 picks into round 1 for an f2’and f3. Once you decide to live trade you pay a hefty price.

Of course it matters.

We were able to pick up Ashcroft and Fletcher without going into deficit while securing Dunkley, Gunston, and McKenna.

All of this while only losing Dan McStay from our best 22 from last year.

We were continually told we wouldn’t be able to do this without giving something (ie a player) of real value.

 

[HeHateMe]

You need to pay overs to move up the draft board, or else there's no incentive for a club to trade down or push their pick(s) out to the following year
And every time a team does, someone says "I can't believe they paid overs!"

Yeah spot on and it also begs the question was it overs or just the price of moving up.

The question should be was it worth it to move up the order. Plenty of compelling arguments both ways but for Hawthorn with the youngest list in the comp by a few years I'd argue it's the right time to go quality over quantity.

 

[Hawkboy62]

What did you identify are your needs?

If anything I'm surprised you talked up trading your picks, then didn't trade either of them for future first round picks to improve your hand next year and chase a gun tall forward.

Maybe the offers for future firsts never came as every team is holding cards for next year.

Hawks 2nd may be pick 19/20, plus their 3rd probably won't be too shabby either. Their average list age is just over 22 years so could be blowout after blowout next year.

 

[lewdogs]

Still have selections in the first 3 rounds of next year's draft, including our own first.

The reason you had those future picks was because you traded out many of your good players this year. The second and third rounders you'll have will not be as good as your own picks which you traded out.

If Weddle ends up a gun then it will be worth it for you but I think trading out future picks to move slightly up the order is a dangerous game.

 

[Mrash]

"Our Head of Football Rob McCartney, along with the recruiting team led by Mark McKenzie, had dinner the night before the draft. It was asked what our best case scenario for the night was and I replied that, although it was unlikely, if we could get both Cam Mackenzie and Josh Weddle, it would be a home run."


Sam Mitchell sent this to members in an email.

The metric isn't just who teams picked, it's also the price paid. I'm assuming Hawks finish in bottom few next year, meaning they used 27 plus say 20&40 to get Weddle. That is eye watering for a talent most rated as a late first round..

 

[Blackhawk42]

The reason you had those future picks was because you traded out many of your good players this year. The second and third rounders you'll have will not be as good as your own picks which you traded out.

We have better players than Mitchell and O'Meara already on the list.

 

[Blackhawk42]

The metric isn't just who teams picked, it's also the price paid. I'm assuming Hawks finish in bottom few next year, meaning they used 27 plus say 20&40 to get Weddle. That is eye watering for a talent most rated as late first round in a weak draft

Who said it was a weak draft? It was only classed as potentially being shallower than previous years, not weaker.

And if the Bulldogs miss the finals it's negligible difference since it's their 2nd and 3rd rounders we possess.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Who said it was a weak draft? It was only classed as potentially being shallower than previous years, not weaker.

And if the Bulldogs miss the finals it's negligible difference since it's their 2nd and 3rd rounders we possess.

What most teams did with their later and rookie picks this year shows they think it was a weak draft.