Expansion Canberra

[MelbourneGWS]

Any news about the GWS Canberra deal yet? The complex “in principle” Tasmanian team decision with many stakeholders has now been made, and yet no official decision on the GWS long term deal! Given that the GWS-Canberra-AFL negotiations started early last year, I am genuinely perplexed on why it has not yet been announced. The club states that it’s awaiting on AFL sign off but I can’t imagine what the issue is - I had thought it was Barr’s request for more AFLW games but wouldn’t have thought that would take so long to resolve. GWS and the ACT government seem happy to continue their long term deal, and we know there’s 3 GWS AFL games in Manuka in 2023

 

[Canberra Pear]

Any news about the GWS Canberra deal yet? The complex “in principle” Tasmanian team decision with many stakeholders has now been made, and yet no official decision on the GWS long term deal! Given that the GWS-Canberra-AFL negotiations started early last year, I am genuinely perplexed on why it has not yet been announced. The club states that it’s awaiting on AFL sign off but I can’t imagine what the issue is - I had thought it was Barr’s request for more AFLW games but wouldn’t have thought that would take so long to resolve. GWS and the ACT government seem happy to continue their long term deal, and we know there’s 3 GWS AFL games in Manuka in 2023

It's ridiculous how long it's taking.

I was hoping it was tied to the Tasmania announcement, but nothing forthcoming yet. If it is related to the Tasmanian deal, they might still wait until a timeframe is officially announced, so they know how long to make the GWS deal.

I can't see any other reason. No negotiation needs to take this long unless they're waiting for other things to fall in line.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

It's ridiculous how long it's taking.

I was hoping it was tied to the Tasmania announcement, but nothing forthcoming yet. If it is related to the Tasmanian deal, they might still wait until a timeframe is officially announced, so they know how long to make the GWS deal.

I can't see any other reason. No negotiation needs to take this long unless they're waiting for other things to fall in line.

Yes. I thought it was mainly due to Barr’s request for an extra AFLW game but if so, surely this would have been resolved by now? Maybe it is the uncertainty relating to the Tasmanian team’s entry date, and if so the 5 year deal remark that was claimed to be from the GWS chairman earlier in the year, may have foreshadowed the long term future of GWS in Canberra? When I queried this with the club at that time, the membership team emailed back stating that BOTH Canberra and Western Sydney were their long term homes and clear priorities.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Yes. I thought it was mainly due to Barr’s request for an extra AFLW game but if so, surely this would have been resolved by now?

According to the article today, we will continue to play 3 AFL games a year here in Canberra, and it will formally include AFLW matches as part of the deal. Most importantly, it states that it will be a 10 year deal!

ACT Giants fans' wait for info on Manuka Oval games nearly over

Canberran GWS Giants fans are one step closer to knowing which games will take place at Manuka Oval...

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

According to the article today, we will continue to play 3 AFL games a year here in Canberra, and it will formally include AFLW matches as part of the deal. Most importantly, it states that it will be a 10 year deal!

ACT Giants fans' wait for info on Manuka Oval games nearly over

Canberran GWS Giants fans are one step closer to knowing which games will take place at Manuka Oval...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Interesting. Good pick up.

The reference to 10 years is added so nonchalantly that I'm still not 100% convinced. I feel like if it were actually the case, it'd come as an announcement.

It is understood that unlike the last $23 million deal, AFLW games will also be formally apart of the renewed 10-year agreement to keep footy coming to Canberra.

I feel that a 10-year extension has been so assumed for so long that it's taken as a truth, and then just repeated like in this article. At least that's my hope.

There were articles from at least 2019 expecting a 10-year extension, and in 2019, a 10-year extension probably was the plan. If there is a 5-year extension plan, that would have come since Tasmania started being a serious option.

Either way, not reading too much into it until an actual announcement comes (who knows when that'll be though!).

 

[Bjo187]

I hope it's not a 10 year deal. That's not good for either GWS or Canberra as a potential team 20.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Interesting. Good pick up.

The reference to 10 years is added so nonchalantly that I'm still not 100% convinced. I feel like if it were actually the case, it'd come as an announcement.

There were articles from at least 2019 expecting a 10-year extension, and in 2019, a 10-year extension probably was the plan. If there is a 5-year extension plan, that would have come since Tasmania started being a serious option.

Yes, the delay could be caused as there’s now an in principle Tasmanian T19. Either way, 10 years or 5 years, there will be a formal announcement by Barr and GWS to proclaim their long term commitment to Canberra or explain why it’s only for 5 years and why that’s good for Canberra. I just wish they would announce before 2022 ends, but if it’s tied to the date of Tasmania officially entering the AFL, then we may need to wait awhile!

 

[Cubs2Lions]

ACT to spend $28.5 million in Giants' deal | Canberra CityNews

The ACT government will spend $2.85 million a year in a 10-year extension of its partnership with the GWS Giants and the AFL.

citynews.com.au

The ACT government will spend $2.85 million a year in a 10-year extension of its partnership with the GWS Giants and the AFL.

As part of the agreement the GWS Giants will schedule an AFLW Community Camp each year, which will replicate that of an AFL Community Camp and include player school visits, junior club visits and media appearances.

The government says that under the renewed agreement, there will be around 50 AFL and AFLW matches played in Canberra.

The agreement includes:

• at least three AFL Premiership matches at Manuka Oval each year (with an option to purchase a fourth Premiership match annually should it become available)
• one pre-season match annually (if pre-season games are scheduled by the AFL)
• up to two AFLW Premiership matches at Manuka Oval per year (one plus another where the premiership schedule allows)
• prominent exposure of the CBR logo on the playing guernsey of both teams for the first time
• expanded opportunities to market Canberra leveraging the Giants and AFL profile, particularly into the Sydney market
• enhanced marketing and brand exposure at stadiums, events and free-to-air broadcasts
• enhanced engagement at a local club level by both AFL and AFLW teams

The $28.5 million arrangement with the GWS Giants follows the announcement of extensions to partnership agreements with the ACT Brumbies and the Canberra Raiders earlier this year

 

[Bjo187]

Shithouse! The AFL are idiots for locking it in for that long, it isn't even good money either and kisses goodbye the option of a Canberra team.

What year does this actually take it to anyway?

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Shithouse! The AFL are idiots for locking it in for that long, it isn't even good money either and kisses goodbye the option of a Canberra team.

What year does this actually take it to anyway?

2032 I think the ACT deal expires again, which means they could plan around forming the 20th entity in the AFL/AFLW competitions there from 2033 onwards, which could still technically happen but quite unlikely IMO.

 

[Bjo187]

2032 I think the ACT deal expires again, which means they could plan around forming the 20th entity in the AFL/AFLW competitions there from 2033 onwards, which could still technically happen but quite unlikely IMO.

The new tv deal starts in 2032 so it doesn't even match up with that if a new team came in unfortunately. Just really weird to lock yourself into a deal for that long, a deal in which is a bit 'blah' for both parties anyway.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

ACT to spend $28.5 million in Giants' deal | Canberra CityNews

The ACT government will spend $2.85 million a year in a 10-year extension of its partnership with the GWS Giants and the AFL.

citynews.com.au

The ACT government will spend $2.85 million a year in a 10-year extension of its partnership with the GWS Giants and the AFL.

As part of the agreement the GWS Giants will schedule an AFLW Community Camp each year, which will replicate that of an AFL Community Camp and include player school visits, junior club visits and media appearances.

The government says that under the renewed agreement, there will be around 50 AFL and AFLW matches played in Canberra.

The agreement includes:

• at least three AFL Premiership matches at Manuka Oval each year (with an option to purchase a fourth Premiership match annually should it become available)
• one pre-season match annually (if pre-season games are scheduled by the AFL)
• up to two AFLW Premiership matches at Manuka Oval per year (one plus another where the premiership schedule allows)
• prominent exposure of the CBR logo on the playing guernsey of both teams for the first time
• expanded opportunities to market Canberra leveraging the Giants and AFL profile, particularly into the Sydney market
• enhanced marketing and brand exposure at stadiums, events and free-to-air broadcasts
• enhanced engagement at a local club level by both AFL and AFLW teams

The $28.5 million arrangement with the GWS Giants follows the announcement of extensions to partnership agreements with the ACT Brumbies and the Canberra Raiders earlier this year

I think it’s a good deal and as an ACT based foundation member am happy with the long term commitment to Canberra shown by GWS. This is a deal that works for the ACT government, GWS and brings regular AFL football to Canberra for a long period

 

[Cubs2Lions]

The new tv deal starts in 2032 so it doesn't even match up with that if a new team came in unfortunately. Just really weird to lock yourself into a deal for that long, a deal in which is a bit 'blah' for both parties anyway.

Only option is that they agree on a short-term contract basis before that “main” contract expires (2-3 year deal) to help accommodate an 20th entity entering the competition in the mid 2030s, otherwise it could be one of WA3, NT or even long shot NQ/QLD3 (given the funding for 2032 SEQ Olympics) that could gain that license, which would be a massive shame for Canberrans given its the most feasible state/territory to have a new AFL team (that isn’t represented yet).

 

[MelbourneGWS]

News from our club about the 10 year deal signed with Barr

GIANTS Announce Landmark Long-Term Partnership Extension with ACT Government

The GIANTS have extended their partnership with the ACT Government.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[MelbourneGWS]

2032 I think the ACT deal expires again, which means they could plan around forming the 20th entity in the AFL/AFLW competitions there from 2033 onwards, which could still technically happen but quite unlikely IMO.

Yes 2032, which means a 21 year relationship with our regions by the GWS. The main issue I thought with a stand alone Canberra team 20 was the lack of enthusiastic funding and support by our territory government - in contrast to the Tasmanian and even NT government. With the absence of such lobbying (or threat to stop funding games), there was no pressure on the AFL commission for Canberra being Team 20

 

[Walshawk]

There has been little or no mention during the Tas expansion discussion contemplating a 20th team. It is only discussed on BigFooty, nowhere else. I doubt it was ever considered or raised during negations for this deal. Especially with Tassie looking less likely as time passes (stadium funding still miles off).

 

[Cubs2Lions]

There has been little or no mention during the Tas expansion discussion contemplating a 20th team. It is only discussed on BigFooty, nowhere else. I doubt it was ever considered or raised during negations for this deal. Especially with Tassie looking less likely as time passes (stadium funding still miles off).

Correct, however if you look at the history of the AFL (after it rebranded from the VFL system), the competition has never had a odd amount of teams for an expanded period of time (1991 - 1995 was the longest timespan) and chances are if Tasmania ends up joining the competition in the not so distant future, the AFL might have/are secretly started planning out where the AFL can locate the 20th team after 2032 (broadcasting deal expires) to help increase broadcasting revenue and participation rates of the code.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Sigh. I really was just reading too much into that 5-year gaff.

Oh well, 2032 isn't crazy for a 20th team. Only five years after Tasmania's entry (maybe even less if the stadium issue drags).

 

[Walshawk]

Correct, however if you look at the history of the AFL (after it rebranded from the VFL system), the competition has never had a odd amount of teams for an expanded period of time (1991 - 1995 was the longest timespan) and chances are if Tasmania ends up joining the competition in the not so distant future, the AFL might have/are secretly started planning out where the AFL can locate the 20th team after 2032 (broadcasting deal expires) to help increase broadcasting revenue and participation rates of the code.

Possibly, but unlikely.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Sigh. I really was just reading too much into that 5-year gaff.

Oh well, 2032 isn't crazy for a 20th team. Only five years after Tasmania's entry (maybe even less if the stadium issue drags).

I actually thought it would be 9 years to align with the current media deal expiry. Based on what Barr

Sigh. I really was just reading too much into that 5-year gaff.

Oh well, 2032 isn't crazy for a 20th team. Only five years after Tasmania's entry (maybe even less if the stadium issue drags).

Due you think the AFL (and maybe GWS) originally wanted 5 years and Barr wanted 10 years? The statement during the GWS game (by BT?) said 5 years and it was attributed to the GWS CEO.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I hope it's not a 10 year deal. That's not good for either GWS or Canberra as a potential team 20.

Exactly, and all the while GWS are playing home games in Canberra there is zero chance of Canberra getting its own AFL team, and rumours are suggesting that the A League are looking at putting a team in Canberra, which will require an up grade to where the union and Rugby League play out of at the moment, or perhaps a new stadium if an upgrade is to expensive.

 

[Canberra Pear]

While I'm disappointed in the 10-year extension, I still have some optimism.

One of the biggest criticisms around GWS and Gold Coast's entry was that they were brought in too close together. Particularly around the draft.

Traditionally, there hasn't been many seasons with odd teams, but that's when expansion was happening at a fast pace and you were essentially bringing in state teams. That's not the case any more. If Tasmania enters in 2027, I wouldn't be surprised if a 20th didn't enter until the early 2030s.

By 2033, the ACT's population will be 540k and Canberra will have nearly 650k people within an hour. If we sign another GWS extension after that, I'm getting a Raiders' membership.

The extension does have some positives. Hopefully we keep selling out games and have no choice to make Manuka Oval upgrades. And the government funding has gone up by $500k a year, which would theoretically get transferred to a Canberra team if we entered. Hopefully the GWS Academy can produce plenty of Canberra talents for us to take when the time comes.

 

[Bjo187]

While I'm disappointed in the 10-year extension, I still have some optimism.

One of the biggest criticisms around GWS and Gold Coast's entry was that they were brought in too close together. Particularly around the draft.

Traditionally, there hasn't been many seasons with odd teams, but that's when expansion was happening at a fast pace and you were essentially bringing in state teams. That's not the case any more. If Tasmania enters in 2027, I wouldn't be surprised if a 20th didn't enter until the early 2030s.

By 2033, the ACT's population will be 540k and Canberra will have nearly 650k people within an hour. If we sign another GWS extension after that, I'm getting a Raiders' membership.

The extension does have some positives. Hopefully we keep selling out games and have no choice to make Manuka Oval upgrades. And the government funding has gone up by $500k a year, which would theoretically get transferred to a Canberra team if we entered. Hopefully the GWS Academy can produce plenty of Canberra talents for us to take when the time comes.

I appreciate your optimism, but for me it was the worst possible option, a few reasons:

• do the act government not want their own team, so intentionally made it a long deal
• do the AFL not want a Canberra team, so intentionally made it a long deal
• the deal extends 1 year past when the new tv rights are starting, that doesn't make sense
• I haven't heard Canberra mentioned once in conversations by the media including Eddie McGuire it's all n.t our north qld.
• the deal is too few games to generate real rusted on gws supporters in Canberra, yet too long for gws to increase their footprint in Sydney where they should be looking to attract fans
• even if Canberra is decided as the 20th team, when that is announced a few years out, what canberrans are going to keep going to gws games? It will fizzle away like north in Hobart.
• $2.85m in 2030 will be pretty much nothing, why would gws even agree to that.

The whole thing is stupid and disappointing from all 3 parties if you ask me.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I appreciate your optimism, but for me it was the worst possible option, a few reasons:

• do the act government not want their own team, so intentionally made it a long deal
• do the AFL not want a Canberra team, so intentionally made it a long deal
• the deal extends 1 year past when the new tv rights are starting, that doesn't make sense
• I haven't heard Canberra mentioned once in conversations by the media including Eddie McGuire it's all n.t our north qld.
• the deal is too few games to generate real rusted on gws supporters in Canberra, yet too long for gws to increase their footprint in Sydney where they should be looking to attract fans
• even if Canberra is decided as the 20th team, when that is announced a few years out, what canberrans are going to keep going to gws games? It will fizzle away like north in Hobart.
• $2.85m in 2030 will be pretty much nothing, why would gws even agree to that.

The whole thing is stupid and disappointing from all 3 parties if you ask me.

It's definitely disappointing, but I have to find a silver lining where I can.

I don't think the ACT govt is against the idea of a team, but they're not pushing hard for one. Andrew Barr did say we'd be a logical spot for one. But I get they'd be wary for being on the hook for a similar amount to Tasmania. They can't contribute $15m while also having to pay the Brumbies and Raiders.

I don't mind the lack of media. When it comes to Eddie and types, I stopped seriously listening. Eddie mentioned the northern time-share team, Sheedy mentioned Newcastle, they're both just making noise. The AFL (hopefully) doesn't make their decision based on the loudest media.

The NT government bid holds more weight, but it looks like that'd be an economic disaster. Canberra and WA3 are the only realistic options.

I agree it's too few games, but we're really hamstrung while the Giants try to straddle both markets. That's why a North or Hawthorn type transitioning out of Tasmania would've been perfect to play four or so games.

It does give vibes of keeping Canberra as a lifeboat if Sydney crowds don't improve in the next decade (which this deal won't help improve).

 

[Bjo187]

It's definitely disappointing, but I have to find a silver lining where I can.

I don't think the ACT govt is against the idea of a team, but they're not pushing hard for one. Andrew Barr did say we'd be a logical spot for one. But I get they'd be wary for being on the hook for a similar amount to Tasmania. They can't contribute $15m while also having to pay the Brumbies and Raiders.

How are they contributing to those sides anyway? A Canberra AFL side would have massive economic benefits for the ACT. Do you know how many people would travel up from Melbourne to games in Canberra, it's a no brainer for a government that actually wants a team.

I don't mind the lack of media. When it comes to Eddie and types, I stopped seriously listening. Eddie mentioned the northern time-share team, Sheedy mentioned Newcastle, they're both just making noise. The AFL (hopefully) doesn't make their decision based on the loudest media.

I agree they are idiots with stupid ideas, but Eddie is often the mouthpiece for Gillon in the AFL media. Just like caro was for Demetriou in the past.

The NT government bid holds more weight, but it looks like that'd be an economic disaster. Canberra and WA3 are the only realistic options.

I agree it's too few games, but we're really hamstrung while the Giants try to straddle both markets. That's why a North or Hawthorn type transitioning out of Tasmania would've been perfect to play four or so games.

It does give vibes of keeping Canberra as a lifeboat if Sydney crowds don't improve in the next decade (which this deal won't help improve).

Thinking about this lifeboat idea. I did agree that was the theory, but I'm now thinking, could the AFL ever actually pull out of a market as big as Sydney and only have 1 team? I think they would see that as suicide. I liked the idea of flipping the deal, so make gws the Canberra side but with 3 games at showgrounds. The problem with that is, one side in that market isn't enough. My disappointment comes in the fact those 3 games would have been perfect at a redeveloped north sydney oval, or Henson park or somewhere to pull a new fan base, as getting fans out of WS seems near impossible at the moment.

Seriously though the AFL marketing team are absolutely clueless with their crap ideas. I posted somewhere previously 7 ideas to make going to giants games more appealing in WS, but when you have private school corporates from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne making the decisions about what works in multicultural neighborhoods in WS, no wonder they are struggling.