Opinion Are we on the verge of another period of dominance from teams not based in Melbourne?

[GC2015]

Non Vic sides are getting up there but just failing at the GF stage.

Need to get 2 home Prelims really to have a huge shot.

Historically inaccurate. In both 2004 & 2005 we saw non-Vic teams travel to Melbourne to play prelims and both prevailed to set up non-Vic GFs.

 

[WillHayward]

Could see a top 4 of Cats Blues Tigers Demons.

You'd think Lions will be up there and the Dockers are on the rise.

 

[Square Peg]

Don't like it? Start your own league.

Hopefully one day Gina or Twiggy get bored of lying on their piles of money, do a Packer and underwrite a breakaway super league.
12 teams and a fair 22 round fixture, 4-6 Vic teams (not the ones that need to be culled like North and St Kilda), 2 WA, 2 SA and 1-2 from Qld and NSW.
With enough money splashed around it would be easier than many think.

 

[Vikingnz]

Why do non Victorian club supporters think us Vics (least from my own club perspective) think we have it against them against our own traditional and tribal rivalries, I spent well over 200 dollars on Crows and Giants merch against Richmond in the 2017 and 2019 Grand finals (fat lot it did me)

The last (and probably only) time I supported a Vic club against an Interstate club in a Grand Final was St Kilda v Adelaide 1997.

Suits my agenda far more to see non Vic clubs win flags than fellow Vic clubs.

$200 dollars cumulative or each?

 

[Strange Cat]

Hopefully one day Gina or Twiggy get bored of lying on their piles of money, do a Packer and underwrite a breakaway super league.
12 teams and a fair 22 round fixture, 4-6 Vic teams (not the ones that need to be culled like North and St Kilda), 2 WA, 2 SA and 1-2 from Qld and NSW.
With enough money splashed around it would be easier than many think.

Good luck getting the stadiums to facilitate that …pipe dream

 

[Square Peg]

Good luck getting the stadiums to facilitate that …pipe dream

I'm not so sure. It's basically a corrupted sporting competition. The people running the game openly admit commercial interests dictate the draw. Certain teams never play at certain venues. There is no moral imperative that our national competition be continued to be run as VFL lite.
The three biggest impediments to a breakaway league are 1) capturing the state feeder leagues as a talent source 2) as you say, access to some grounds (but certainly not all) and 3) ownership structure of some but again certainly not all or even most clubs. All very difficult but none are insurmountable challenges if enough cash is thrown around. Certainly nothing to justify the sneer of pipe dream.
I would welcome it. It couldn't be worse than the pantomime currently masquerading as a legitimate even competition.

 

[Arr0w]

Grand Final always in Melbourne.

Doesn't stop non Vic sides from making a GF

Draft much harder for non-Victorian teams as we have access to far fewer players in the draft pool since we have to avoid all the players who will want to go home almost immediately. AFL have done nothing to help with this.

Victorian teams massively benefit from the "go home factor". I mean look at Richmond just this year, managing to basically fix their midfield issues by recruiting both Hopper and Taranto.

Must be tough getting discounts for academy players, where you can use multiple late picks to secure that player.

Also, must be a real disadvantage having those academy players training with the club, learning the gameplan, years before being drafted

 

[Cuzz09]

Historically inaccurate. In both 2004 & 2005 we saw non-Vic teams travel to Melbourne to play prelims and both prevailed to set up non-Vic GFs.

True but 04/05 was peak non Vic era.

Currently it would be a huge advantage to get 2 home prelims

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[Strange Cat]

I'm not so sure. It's basically a corrupted sporting competition. The people running the game openly admit commercial interests dictate the draw. Certain teams never play at certain venues. There is no moral imperative that our national competition be continued to be run as VFL lite.
The three biggest impediments to a breakaway league are 1) capturing the state feeder leagues as a talent source 2) as you say, access to some grounds (but certainly not all) and 3) ownership structure of some but again certainly not all or even most clubs. All very difficult but none are insurmountable challenges if enough cash is thrown around. Certainly nothing to justify the sneer of pipe dream.
I would welcome it. It couldn't be worse than the pantomime currently masquerading as a legitimate even competition.

Re: the stadium you are forgetting the state funding and contracts that exists for most of the stadiums that no amount of money could force the stadiums to walk away from ….and the big one would be the influence of the MCC

Like I said a major pipe dream there’s too many hurdles for that to happen

 

[Square Peg]

Re: the stadium you are forgetting the state funding and contracts that exists for most of the stadium and the big one would be the influence of the MCC

Like I said a major pipe dream there’s too many hurdles for that to happen

Of course, how silly of me, you couldn't possibly have a national elite sporting competition and not play at the MCG

 

[Strange Cat]

Of course, how silly of me, you couldn't possibly have a national elite sporting competition and not play at the MCG

You’re disregarding the contracts and funding that’s in place often they are multi years of structure of planning and funding already in place. A break away competition would have to use smaller venues and i am unsure if the lower facilities would be upto standards ground wise, not to mention the training facilities to accommodate such a league throwing endless amount of money cannot solve this issue.

 

[doppleganger]

is the home state advantage of interstate clubs not offset the next week when their opponent has it?

Adelaide play Melbourne in Adelaide
Melbourne play Adelaide in Alice Springs

Adelaide play Hawthorn in Adelaide
Hawthorn play Adelaide in Launceston

Adelaide play Bulldogs in Adelaide
Bulldogs play Adelaide in Ballarat

Notice how it aint offset.

Adelaide always play home games at "home" in Adelaide, but they dont play away games against Melbourne opponents at their "home" or even in Melbourne.

 

[Obeanie1]

Good luck getting the stadiums to facilitate that …pipe dream

There is an organisation called the ACCC.

And money talks.

 

[go_the_dockers]

There was an article in the herald sun, saying Dustin Martin resigned for Richmond because the big game exposure was worth 150k a year for him and his sponsors.

The same friday, Saturday night and national broadcast games.

Maybe if the game played in Vic was not national broadcast then the non Vic clubs would more room in the salary cap, and they spread the thursday, Friday games out.

 

[Schauermann]

Whereas Luke Jackson or Jesse Hogan wanting to go back home means Freo and West Coast have a 50% chance of getting them.

Getting Hogan was hardly an advantage.

And the clubs that lost him has won a premiership since.

So "It was a trap" probably...

 

[LoungeLizard]

Of course, how silly of me, you couldn't possibly have a national elite sporting competition and not play at the MCG

I can't wait for you to get this new league up and running, it's about time another state got off their ass and did something.

 

[Strange Cat]

I can't wait for you to get this new league up and running, it's about time another state got off their ass and did something.

I’m sure Gina will find the billions needed to break the funding and other contracts across the league, after all she is so generous with her money just look at her family …oh wait

 

[Cuzz09]

Simple.

Non Vic teams (and everyone really) just need to be better in September.

Been done before, will be done again.

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[doppleganger]

Simple.

Non Vic teams (and everyone really) just need to be better in September.

Been done before, will be done again.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yep.

Last three years, non Melbourne teams make up 8 of the 12 top4 teams at the end H&A.

Non Melbourne teams never have a problem finishing top4...over represented actually.

But teams like Brisbane and Port have lost home finals, whilst Richmond, Melbourne and the Dogs have won finals all over Australia.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The league is what it is, commercial interests dictate most of it and they refuse to find out that doing things like a rolling fixture will not bring in less money. They are set with what they call blockbuster matches and they are locked in forever.
That the WCE is arguably one of the biggest clubs with no national leg up that the other Vic clubs get I am quite proud of.

The one change I would make is to the free agent world, the clubs losing the player should be the ones putting the price on the leaving players head. Just as they do in America which is where we got the FA idea from. Be it money or picks or a combination of both then the club losing the play should be dictating this movement.
North Melbourne should of been able to say HF is worth to them a top 10 pick plus 500k. This ridiculous situation we have where the players get to do as they please is crap. The AFL should have no say what so ever in what a players value is.

 

[Papa G]

The league is what it is, commercial interests dictate most of it and they refuse to find out that doing things like a rolling fixture will not bring in less money. They are set with what they call blockbuster matches and they are locked in forever.
That the WCE is arguably one of the biggest clubs with no national leg up that the other Vic clubs get I am quite proud of.

Yeah the Eagles are easily the biggest club in the country and it really isn't all that close. It's just it doesn't fit the VFL narrative and the fact they are so far away from the Melbourne centric media that they get recognised as such.

The league isn't going to change all that much, calls for a breakaway league are pie in the sky. The league is far too corrupted by Victorian Government money and VFL legacy issues, but I think it is incumbent on clubs like West Coast and to a lesser extent Adelaide (who's general managerial incompetence has diminished what they should be) to call out the league on its doctoring. Nothing will change otherwise.

 

[Demon13304]

Getting Hogan was hardly an advantage.

And the clubs that lost him has won a premiership since.

So "It was a trap" probably...

Yeah we won out that one,
but at the time Hogan had kicked 150 goals from 70 off games and was the youngest KPF in the top 10 for the Coleman (iirc).
Honestly thought he was gonna be the best forward for the next 10 years, kinda sad he never reached those heights but he's playing well enough at GWSP

Anyway I'm not saying it's completely even or anything across the comp, but I'd froth it if a player of high calibre was coming home and I knew my club had a genuine 50% of getting him

 

[GC2015]

Adelaide play Melbourne in Adelaide
Melbourne play Adelaide in Alice Springs

Adelaide play Hawthorn in Adelaide
Hawthorn play Adelaide in Launceston

Adelaide play Bulldogs in Adelaide
Bulldogs play Adelaide in Ballarat

Notice how it aint offset.

Adelaide always play home games at "home" in Adelaide, but they dont play away games against Melbourne opponents at their "home" or even in Melbourne.

Yet the following week after playing in Alice Springs, Melbourne play an "away" game against the Bulldogs at Marvel, meanwhile Adelaide's next away game was in Sydney. Hawthorn's next "away" game after playing Gold Coast in Launceston was against Richmond at the MCG, meanwhile Gold Coast's next away game was in Melbourne. Bulldogs play the Crows in Ballarat and the following week they play Essendon at Marvel, meanwhile the Crows next play away against Carlton at Marvel. Do you see how this could possibly be considered unfair? The "away" games in Melbourne (particularly a week after having travelled) offset the disadvantage that you're trying to argue. There's also the fact that several non-Victorian teams also host games outside of their home state e.g. GWS playing home games in Canberra, Gold Coast playing home games in Darwin, and those games are followed by a genuine interstate trip for an away game, which just gives the Vic teams an even greater advantage. So your statement of 'Adelaide always plays home games in Adelaide' doesn't apply to all non-Victorian team; in fact some are getting treated even worse than a team like the Crows.

The real inequity in the league comes in the form of travel. Victorian teams travel far less than non-Victorian teams and that's an obvious advantage when you get to September and every is team has their own struggles with fatigue/injuries. These games that see Melbourne-based teams travel to other states/territories to host "home" games actually brings the league closer to an equitable draw. Hawthorn for example played 14 games in Melbourne last year compared to Adelaide's 12 games played in Adelaide. It's not equal but it's reasonably close and I think most non-Victorians would cop that compared to a team like Richmond who played 17 games in Melbourne this year. Don't even get me started on the fact that the GWS only play 8 games in their home city and Gold Coast only play 9 games in their home city these days.

 

[doppleganger]

Another good point.

Adelaide get 10 games at their "home" ground where they get an advantage.

A team like Melbourne gets just 4 or 5 games at the G with an advantage against a non-Melbourne team.

 

[RUNVS]

Must be tough getting discounts for academy players, where you can use multiple late picks to secure that player.

Also, must be a real disadvantage having those academy players training with the club, learning the gameplan, years before being drafted

Could you please name all the best 22 players Sydney and GWS have traded for in the last 8 years or so? Something tells me combined Sydney and GWS have brought in fewer best 22 players from other clubs in that period than Carlton has.