Opinion Are we on the verge of another period of dominance from teams not based in Melbourne?

[Elmer_Judd]

It's hard to imagine any non Vic clubs aside from Freo, The Swans or Brisbane winning a flag in the next 3/4 years, The Giants window is shut for now (due to poaching from Southern and Eastern based clubs mainly)

Port could go either way, come close to possibly winning a flag or total implosion in 2023.

But the worst/most painful part of the Crows rebuild is over and I expect significant improvement from them in 2023.

Only non Vic club that is in bad nick for the next few years is West Coast.

By around 2027 I think we will start seeing more interstate/non Vic clubs win flags on a more frequent basis.

 

[VicBased]

How am I defending?
I am actually agreeing that we have Vic bias, I have been trying to explain why I think we have it, yet when I do all I get is more sooking.
So agree, we get sooking, disagree, we get sooking.

I think we can all agree that no matter what happens, there are many who are just sooks.

I, for one, would absolutely love to hear your view on what you think is Vicbias.
It might help alleviate the communication problem we always seem to have.

 

[doppleganger]

It doesn't mean there is no bias. You are only looking at one aspect

What/where is the bias?

The bastardised FIXture looks to reduce WA teams travel.

WA and SA teams are the ONLY teams who enjoy ALL 11 home games at a single home ground.

Non-Melbourne teams dominate the end of year H&A ladder, massively over represented in top2 finishes.

The major market is where the eyes are, East coast...that is why they dominate the "premium" TV slots and media show focus on them.

The only real "bias" is WA wowser sooking about travel.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I, for one, would absolutely love to hear your view on what you think is Vicbias.
It might help alleviate the communication problem we always seem to have.

It's been explained to you a few times now, go back and read some more, try it a bit slower maybe then it might sink in.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I think some of the gripes from non Vic Club supporters which I think is legitimate is that they are often forced to play away games down in Ballarat or Tassie etc (I think Alice Springs is okay as it's promoting the game up there for a good cause once a year) and most Melbourne/Vic teams don't, aside from The Dogs, Hawks and Roos, which also is not fair on their Melbourne based supporters and deprives them of another chance to play at The G.

The Fixture certainly is inequitable from that perspective. Also I don't think any non Vic club should be forced to play down at Geelong in consecutive seasons if possible (seems like every year Freo is forced to play down at The Cattery)

 

[Bluelegs]

Grand Final always in Melbourne.

Draft much harder for non-Victorian teams as we have access to far fewer players in the draft pool since we have to avoid all the players who will want to go home almost immediately. AFL have done nothing to help with this.

Victorian teams massively benefit from the "go home factor". I mean look at Richmond just this year, managing to basically fix their midfield issues by recruiting both Hopper and Taranto.

Victorian clubs compete with other Victorian clubs for players wishing to go home. ~55% of players drafted are Victorian but so are 55% of the teams.

 

[Senor M]

I think some of the gripes from non Vic Club supporters which I think is legitimate is that they are often forced to play away games down in Ballarat or Tassie etc (I think Alice Springs is okay as it's promoting the game up there for a good cause once a year) and most Melbourne/Vic teams don't, aside from The Dogs, Hawks and Roos, which also is not fair on their Melbourne based supporters and deprives them of another chance to play at The G.

The Fixture certainly is inequitable from that perspective. Also I don't think any non Vic club should be forced to play down at Geelong in consecutive seasons if possible (seems like every year Freo is forced to play down at The Cattery)

If Interstate sides are playing North, the Bulldogs or Hawthorn in Melbourne wouldn't the game end up being played at Marvel Stadium anyway (as all three at Marvel clubs)

 

[doppleganger]

I think some of the gripes from non Vic Club supporters which I think is legitimate is that they are often forced to play away games down in Ballarat or Tassie etc (I think Alice Springs is okay as it's promoting the game up there for a good cause once a year) and most Melbourne/Vic teams don't, aside from The Dogs, Hawks and Roos, which also is not fair on their Melbourne based supporters and deprives them of another chance to play at The G.

LoL.

It is an away game for the non-vic sides.

The "home" team is the actual team losing out in that scenario as they are effectively turning a "home" game into an "away" game.

 

[VicBased]

Non-Melbourne teams dominate the end of year H&A ladder, massively over represented in top2 finishes.

Easy enough to check those details and you might get quite a surprise there dg

 

[doppleganger]

Easy enough to check those details and you might get quite a surprise there dg

Posted them in the thread earlier.

Non-Melbourne teams dominate H&A ladder.

They then go on to lose home QF / PFs.

 

[VicBased]

Posted them in the thread earlier.

Non-Melbourne teams dominate H&A ladder.

They then go on to lose home QF / PFs.

Last decade,
Interstate teams in the final 8......34
Vic teams........45.

 

[doppleganger]

Last decade,
Interstate teams in the final 8......34
Vic teams........45.

Since 2000 there has been 23 completed seasons, so 46 top 2 positions up for grabs.

Melbourne based teams have finished H&A season as top2 just 14 of the 46 available slots.

Non-Melbourne teams filled top2 places 32 of 46 slots.

Massive imbalance, that unsurprisingly favours the teams who have retained their home ground advantage.

 

[VicBased]

Since 2000 there has been 23 completed seasons, so 46 top 2 positions up for grabs.

Melbourne based teams have finished H&A season as top2 just 14 of the 46 available slots.

Non-Melbourne teams filled top2 places 32 of 46 slots.

Massive imbalance, that unsurprisingly favours the teams who have retained their home ground advantage.

We could do this all day and i could go back to inception which would again change the numbers.
The last decade is a true indication.

 

[doppleganger]

We could do this all day and i could go back to inception which would again change the numbers.
The last decade is a true indication.

First - a decade of top8 should add to 80.
Second - finishing 8th is mid table
Third - a longer period is better
Fourth - Vic teams (10/18) make up 55.5% of competing teams. So you should expect them to make up 45 spots.

No bias.

AFL killed off Melbourne grounds in the 90s
Marvel Stadium opened in 2000

Since then non-Melbourne teams have dominated the top2 of H&A.

Yet WA fans think Melbourne teams are favoured??

 

[VicBased]

First - a decade of top8 should add to 80.
Second - finishing 8th is mid table
Third - a longer period is better
Fourth - Vic teams (10/18) make up 55.5% of competing teams. So you should expect them to make up 45 spots.

No bias.

AFL killed off Melbourne grounds in the 90s
Marvel Stadium opened in 2000

Since then non-Melbourne teams have dominated the top2 of H&A.

Yet WA fans think Melbourne teams are favoured??

Sorry I missed one.
A decade is a better sample as it factors in ALL the teams playing now.

 

[doppleganger]

Sorry I missed one.
A decade is a better sample as it factors in ALL the teams playing now.

So having the top 8 numbers almost exactly align to the distribution of teams, (45 from 80 is what you expect when 10 of 18 teams are from that cohort) where is the bias?

Why do so many non-Melbourne teams finish top2 in H&A?

Check any period you want

Last 2 years
Last 10 years
Last 22 years

Non-Melbourne teams dominate top2 of end of year H&A ladder.

Almost as if teams who retain home advantage are favoured.

 

[King Huskii]

I think some of the gripes from non Vic Club supporters which I think is legitimate is that they are often forced to play away games down in Ballarat or Tassie etc (I think Alice Springs is okay as it's promoting the game up there for a good cause once a year) and most Melbourne/Vic teams don't, aside from The Dogs, Hawks and Roos, which also is not fair on their Melbourne based supporters and deprives them of another chance to play at The G.

The Fixture certainly is inequitable from that perspective. Also I don't think any non Vic club should be forced to play down at Geelong in consecutive seasons if possible (seems like every year Freo is forced to play down at The Cattery)

Thanks for adding your perspective to it. I agree with your points. It's hard to have everything equal especially with so many vic teams but some of the scheduling could be improved.

 

[VicBased]

So having the top 8 numbers almost exactly align to the distribution of teams, (45 from 80 is what you expect when 10 of 18 teams are from that cohort) where is the bias?

Why do so many non-Melbourne teams finish top2 in H&A?

Check any period you want

Last 2 years
Last 10 years
Last 22 years

Non-Melbourne teams dominate top2 of end of year H&A ladder.

Almost as if teams who retain home advantage are favoured.

AFL Tables - Ladders - Year by Year

according to these stats you are incorrect.
Interstate teams finished in the top two 25 times,
vics 43 times.
That was down to 1990.

 

[doppleganger]

AFL Tables - Ladders - Year by Year

according to these stats you are incorrect.
Interstate teams finished in the top two 25 times,
vics 43 times.
That was down to 1990.

Last time 2 Melbourne based clubs were 1 and 2 at end of H&A was 2000.

The H&A fixture favours teams who actually have a home ground.

From 1987 to 1999, Melbourne clubs finished top two 20 of the 26 available slots.

After AFL imposed Melbourne ground rationalisation came in with Marvel in 2000 it has since been just 14 of 46 available slots.

Last decade has been just 5 of 20 available slots, 2 of the 5 coming from Hawthorn who sell 4 games to Tassie and "travel" 9 times a year....the team closest like a non-Melbourne team.

 

[AstonSouffle]

This is to Lounge and Carringbush.

Guys seriously, I tried for a fair dinkum effort to give you some respect. But all you've said is that interstate supporters, we're not allowed to even talk, we're beneath you, and we must be thankful for your permission for our continued existence. Why? Because it was/is a Victorian league.

Pathetic really, here's me appreciating what Victoria does good and you'd spit at us saying you knew that already.

 

[King Huskii]

This is to Lounge and Carringbush.

Guys seriously, I tried for a fair dinkum effort to give you some respect. But all you've said is that interstate supporters, we're not allowed to even talk, we're beneath you, and we must be thankful for your permission for our continued existence. Why? Because it was/is a Victorian league.

Pathetic really, here's me appreciating what Victoria does good and you'd spit at us saying you knew that already.

Don't waste your time. They aren't worth it. Apparently if we don't like the bias coming out of the v AFL we shouldn't say anything and instead create a new competition.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This is to Lounge and Carringbush.

Guys seriously, I tried for a fair dinkum effort to give you some respect. But all you've said is that interstate supporters, we're not allowed to even talk, we're beneath you, and we must be thankful for your permission for our continued existence. Why? Because it was/is a Victorian league.

Pathetic really, here's me appreciating what Victoria does good and you'd spit at us saying you knew that already.

Sorry you feel that way, but speaking for myself I've never said you can't speak, you're beneath me or that you should be thankful.

Just laying out the blunt reality, this is not some sort of conspiracy against non vic fans or clubs constructed by vic club fans.

 

[Freomaniac]

A home and away season.

One set of clubs, the Melbourne clubs, are shafted and dont play home games at their home ground.

WA fans think they are hard done by when they play 5 "away" games at the same ground.

Whikst at the same time think Melbourne based clubs get a "home advantage" when they travel to play 3 or 4 games in another state.

So..... Colingwood has 12-15 games at the MCG every year (13 in 2023). Its a disadvantage. lol

So AFL is expanded. Tassie gets in to make it 19 teams. A 3rd WA side or ACT or NT side makes it 20. Thats 10 non vic sides. Are you happy getting all 10 Non vic sides in either the MCG or Docklands in one season?

 

[LoungeLizard]

This is to Lounge and Carringbush.

Guys seriously, I tried for a fair dinkum effort to give you some respect. But all you've said is that interstate supporters, we're not allowed to even talk, we're beneath you, and we must be thankful for your permission for our continued existence. Why? Because it was/is a Victorian league.

Pathetic really, here's me appreciating what Victoria does good and you'd spit at us saying you knew that already.

I have not once said you shouldn't talk.
What I have said, no mater what we say, then a couple of you cry anyway, I have agreed there is a Vic bias, you asked my opinion and I gave it, yet a couple on here still cry about it, if I said there was no Vic bias, christ imagine the tissue shortage.

So now you think it's pathetic, then don't ask my opinion again because you won't be getting it.

 

[doppleganger]

So..... Colingwood has 12-15 games at the MCG every year (13 in 2023). Its a disadvantage. lol

Compared to our own unique ground, Victoria Park, yes it is a disadvantage.

And again, well aware that my team Collingwood has the best situation of all the Melbourne based teams.

We play 14 games every year since mid 2000s, that is our contractual stadium arrangement part of MCC deal to give home PFs.

But 8-10 of the 14 are just clashes (AFL manufactured BLOCKBUSTERS) against Melbourne teams who also call the MCG home...they are just neutral.

Would I rather have a single home stadium that we dont share with 6 other teams that gives a proper home ground advantage...damn straight.

4 games with a home ground advantage against the opponent is a fair bit less than the WA / SA teams who get 10.

So AFL is expanded. Tassie gets in to make it 19 teams. A 3rd WA side or ACT or NT side makes it 20. Thats 10 non vic sides. Are you happy getting all 10 Non vic sides in either the MCG or Docklands in one season?

Why would Collingwood be happy playing any games at Docklands? It aint our home ground.

Would we rather play a home game against Melbourne at the G which is neutral, or a home game against Freo at the G where we have an advantage.

Pretty obvious answer yeah? Not sure I get your point?

As a Freo fan, would you be happy selling 2-4 "home" games to NT or Broome (they supposedly still count as home advantage games and there is no travel impost if you sell them I am informed ) to get some extra $$ and TV exposure for Freo?