F1 2023 - The Rise of Oscar

Aug 21, 2008
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Now he's going to have to deal with all the extra crap that is needed to succeed in F1, which can't be taught in the lower formulas, like dealing with team politics/bias and driving against a number of drivers that are better than him.

I vaguely remember asking Skull Face how Piastri would go if he were racing against 20 other Piastris. I forgot his answer.

It'll be interesting to see how Webber guides him through that if needed.

As long as Piastri doesnt take Webber's advice on how to get off the start line he'll be fine
 

Simon_Nesbit

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I think Norris is a very talented driver, (top 5-6) that just doesn't have any experience to comprehend what's unique/wrong with the McLaren. He has a very brave, forceful driving style, with aggressive inputs, but curiously does seem to be able to manage tires ok. I'm not sure if that's another unique feature of the McLaren - perhaps a result of being able to reduce the time under extreme stress around high(er) speed corners - or just something I haven't seen, as he spends an inordinate amount of time cruising around by himself.

He's got a "gamer" attitude of free experimentation, and found a method that clearly works. It wasn't uncommon for Ricciardo to match - or even beat - Lando early in race weekends, only for Lando to find time all over the track as practice went on, taking, or extending his advantage over his teammate. I think Lando has done an exceptional job in a horrible car, with great foot control (braking and acceleration) that is perfectly matched to the car characteristics. I wonder if he would struggle in a more typical vehicle, or if he could adapt his style to suit a more traditional setup. I worry he will be unable to develop the car successfully, once McLaren finally have the facilities required to design and test their own models.

McLaren's engine performance seems to have improved significantly, as did stability on exit - (the two no doubt strongly correlated) but the same problems (mid corner stability, loss of downforce under braking/turn in) still exist. Norris took Alonso's vicious driving style and made every track a series of acute angle corners - it's not the fastest way around the track, but it seems the fastest way for the current McLaren.

I've only seen Oscar in F3 (briefly) and his F2 season. I don't have a firm opinion yet, but am leaning towards him being smooth and flowing rather than a driver who wrestles the car around the track. I fear he is not at all suited to the McLaren CAR at all but hope he has the talent to find a style to be successful in the car.
 
I think Norris is a very talented driver, (top 5-6).

I think Lando has done an exceptional job in a horrible car, with great foot control (braking and acceleration) that is perfectly matched to the car characteristics. I wonder if he would struggle in a more typical vehicle, or if he could adapt his style to suit a more traditional setup.

This for me as well. Lando is great in the McLaren but it is the only car he has known and I think it is fair to say they have tailored it to suit him to a large extent. There is a reason why every driver that has left McLaren has commented on how vastly different it is to other cars they have driven.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Excluding the old boys, I have Lando just behind Leclerc, Max and Russell but just ahead of Sainz, Ocon and Gasly.

If I was to compare my rankings to the 2000s - Leclerc, Max and Russell would be Kimi, Alonso, and MSC (no particular order there) - Lando being the Jenson Button - very talented in his own right, not an all time great, but has a deserved title in him if the cards fall right.
 

Seedsfan

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Exactly what I said in the last thread, the teams won't allow it. They don't want to give up any of that sweet piece of pie.
Very frustrating
But more teams coming in grows the pie. An American team with an American driver and American power unit would go along way to winning over US fans and increasing revenue
 
Mar 20, 2007
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But more teams coming in grows the pie. An American team with an American driver and American power unit would go along way to winning over US fans and increasing revenue
Not if they are at the back of the grid.
Haas F1 are meant to be American, and nobody in the US seems to care about them (apart from the Guenther memes)
 
Not if they are at the back of the grid.
Haas F1 are meant to be American, and nobody in the US seems to care about them (apart from the Guenther memes)

That is because Gene Haas doesn't care. He is only there to increase his companies brand. He doesn't give a s**t about the on track stuff.
 

Skull Face

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For me to understand the confidence you guys have, I have to understand your view of Norris?
Confidence in Piastri? Norris is comfortably the best driver outside the big 3 teams and also ahead of Perez and Sainz as well so a top 4-5 driver on the grid, matching his performances is going to be tough but I think the reason they chose to go this way is due to the way Webber's career went flumbing around through his peak years driving mid-back marker teams he could have been a multiple wc before vettel turned up if he got into the right cars.

Match or beat Norris and you can probably take your pick of Hamilton, Perez or Sainz seats when they become available in 12-24 months from now and my confidence in him comes from the fact he has adapted to 3 cars in 3 years and been quickest in all of them, he is getting better and better and also the fact he rejected a soft landing at williams to pit himself against the toughest challenge a rookie can have for a teammate in car thats just ruined Ricciardo's career he has no fear of failing.
 
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Confidence in Piastri? Norris is comfortably the best driver outside the big 3 teams and also ahead of Perez and Sainz as well so a top 4-5 driver on the grid, matching his performances is going to be tough but I think the reason they chose to go this way is due to the way Webber's career went flumbing around through his peak years driving mid-back marker teams he could have been a multiple wc before vettel turned up if he got into the right cars.

Match or beat Norris and you can probably take your pick of Hamilton, Perez or Sainz seats when they become available in 12-24 months from now and my confidence in him comes from the fact he has adapted to 3 cars in 3 years and been quickest in all of them, he is getting better and better and also the fact he rejected a soft landing at williams to pit himself against the toughest challenge a rookie can have for a teammate in car thats just ruined Ricciardo's career he has no fear of failing.
I kind of wanted to say it without saying it, as guys like yourself and skam seem absolute in your opinions. The way I see it, one of these guys is going to be tainted in a couple of years. They both might have long careers in F1, but the possibility of a WC will be snuffed out. The question is, who will it be?

There's going to be no mercy for Piastri if Norris gets the better of him by the end of the second year. The F1 industry is not going to care about the hat trick of pre-F1 titles. If they're evenly matched, whatever weakness one has will be exaggerated. Down the track, it'll be, "Well, Norris/Piastri couldn't beat Piastri/Norris when they were at Mclaren together."

Look how quickly everyone has taken a bog on Ricciardo? If nothing else, Ricciardo is the 3rd best Australian driver of all time so far, and his highlights reel is the F1 equivalent of taking speccies and kicking awesome goals. Norris and Piastri won't be anywhere near as accomplished when either reputation has taken a hit.

It's an Aldi brand Alonso/Hamilton 2007. Alonso's reputation hasn't fully recovered from that season.

As someone who's not a member of The Mark Webber Fan Club, that is a very generous opinion you have of him. Especially considering your logic of rating Piastri with the pre-F1 titles hat trick.

I don't know what's going to happen.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Yeah Webber's only WC chance was 2010 and he bottled it in Korea.

The only other "sliding doors" moment in Webber's career was going to Williams instead of Renault in 2005 but there was this guy in the other car called Fernando Alonso that would have trounced him far more than Vettel post-10. Which means Webber may never have got his Red Bull chance anyway.
 

Skull Face

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I kind of wanted to say it without saying it, as guys like yourself and skam seem absolute in your opinions. The way I see it, one of these guys is going to be tainted in a couple of years. They both might have long careers in F1, but the possibility of a WC will be snuffed out. The question is, who will it be?

There's going to be no mercy for Piastri if Norris gets the better of him by the end of the second year. The F1 industry is not going to care about the hat trick of pre-F1 titles. If they're evenly matched, whatever weakness one has will be exaggerated. Down the track, it'll be, "Well, Norris/Piastri couldn't beat Piastri/Norris when they were at Mclaren together."

Look how quickly everyone has taken a bog on Ricciardo? If nothing else, Ricciardo is the 3rd best Australian driver of all time so far, and his highlights reel is the F1 equivalent of taking speccies and kicking awesome goals. Norris and Piastri won't be anywhere near as accomplished when either reputation has taken a hit.

It's an Aldi brand Alonso/Hamilton 2007. Alonso's reputation hasn't fully recovered from that season.

As someone who's not a member of The Mark Webber Fan Club, that is a very generous opinion you have of him. Especially considering your logic of rating Piastri with the pre-F1 titles hat trick.

I don't know what's going to happen.
My opinion on Webber was his best years were in a BMW, Jaguar and by the time he got the race winning car he had lost a little bit, he still should have won that 1st title for red bull but it was downhill for him from there. I think mark himself regrets this which is why he is pushing oscar to take on the challenge early and get into that big drive sooner in his career.

For sure his reputation and career is on the line but thats the same anywhere if he didnt beat ocon or albon the same could have been said, going head to head with norris though has more upside as winning that battle will make you the biggest talent outside the top teams where if he beat ocon they could have overlooked him for norris or gasly and he would be stuck at alpine until 2028+
 

Not Important

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Confidence in Piastri? Norris is comfortably the best driver outside the big 3 teams and also ahead of Perez and Sainz as well so a top 4-5 driver on the grid, matching his performances is going to be tough but I think the reason they chose to go this way is due to the way Webber's career went flumbing around through his peak years driving mid-back marker teams he could have been a multiple wc before vettel turned up if he got into the right cars.

Match or beat Norris and you can probably take your pick of Hamilton, Perez or Sainz seats when they become available in 12-24 months from now and my confidence in him comes from the fact he has adapted to 3 cars in 3 years and been quickest in all of them, he is getting better and better and also the fact he rejected a soft landing at williams to pit himself against the toughest challenge a rookie can have for a teammate in car thats just ruined Ricciardo's career he has no fear of failing.
don't rate russell?
 
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