Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[Trav 20]

That jst isn’t a sound way to compare Trav. Have a look at Ablett’s first 5 years, statistically he ranged between decent and gun small forward/high half forward. If Martin was better than Ablett in the early part of his career then to me it is just another thing to suggest Martin has been a better player overall.

I am rushed today, but you can present any comparison you think is fair by referring to the players’ respective careers at afltables.com

AFL Tables - Gary Ablett - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Dustin Martin - Stats - Statistics

afltables.com

To be honest I think the 2007-10 Ablett 6th to 9th year v the Dusty 2017-20, 7th to 10th year comparison probably gives the best comparison as it is both players in their prime, 98 Brownlow votes Ablett v 97 Brownlow votes Dusty(adjusted for 2020 shortened season.) The finals in those seasons should be indicative.

Plenty of players were better than Ablett in his first 100 games. He was a B grader. He was a 35 goal small forward.

It's no feather in Martin's cap, or any quality midfielder, to say they had Ablett covered prior to 2007.

Considering you've already done the work, and I haven't, all you have to do is deduct 77 disposals from his total finals tally and take off 5 finals games to adjust the numbers.

I'll do it if you pass on the tallies you've already compiled.

 

[Fadge]

Ok …. so you criticise anyone who wants to excuse Martin’s injured 2018 PF or 2022 EF after a 10-week layoff, but now want to take away Ablett’s first 5-years of finals and his last 4-years of finals …ok, removing 9-years of data that may skew his numbers sounds reasonable…..

I don't want to take away any data.

I'm just commenting that when you have the following data set it's not exactly a like for like comparison:

Years into career of finals games:
Player 1 - Gary Ablett Junior - 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 17, 18, 19 (5 x finals in years 3 and 4, 8 x finals in years 17,18,19)
Player 2 - Dustin Martin - 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 (2 x finals total in years 4 and 6)

Or do you disagree?

 

[Noidnadroj]

Not to mention the different positions and roles they played...

I'm looking forward to the comparison with Barassi's worst 7 finals...

Your silence on my analysis of the ‘worst’ 7 finals of a cavalcade of superstars you rate all above Martin is deafening.

His worst 7 finals are comparatively better than theirs (Hird didn’t kick a goal and averaged 15 touches…. Goodes averaged 12 touches ….oh my!!) , and his best 9 x finals are without question streets ahead of theirs.

Do you accept your memories of these stars may be a little sketchy from days gone by?

Also, GAJ’s worst 7 x finals? Averaged 13.14 touches and didn’t kick a goal. Or let’s go to his worst 11 x finals? Averaged 17.27 and kicked 2 x goals total.

Pendles worst 7 x finals? Averaged 14.71 touches and didn’t kick a goal. He’s played a lot of finals, so Pendles worst 12 x finals? Averaged 18.17 touches and didn’t kick a goal.

Let’s be fair and take out his 5 x absolutely worst finals, and look at the ‘next worst 7’:

Averaged 21.71 and didn’t kick a goal. So that’s after we’ve taken out his 5 x complete disasters as a young player or if he got injured or was sick etc…..

With Martin’s complete disaster finals included … youngster, injured, not match fit etc…. he averages just under 21 touches and kicked 2 x goals.

Amazing what a little digging unearths, isn’t it Fadge?

Penny for your thoughts ?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[JackOutback]

On the balance of their careers no club would draft Gaj over Martin.

Troll thread confirmed.

 

[Trav 20]

Pendles worst 7 x finals? Averaged 14.71 touches and didn’t kick a goal. He’s played a lot of finals, so Pendles worst 12 x finals? Averaged 18.17 touches and didn’t kick a goal.

Old ''zero flag Pendles'', eh ?

 

[Fadge]

Your silence on my analysis of the ‘worst’ 7 finals of a cavalcade of superstars you rate all above Martin is deafening.

How many times and how many different people do you need to tell you that comparing players' statistics from different eras, particularly when they played in different positions across those eras, is fundamentally flawed, before you come to the conclusion it is fundamentally flawed?

Refer to my earlier post highlighting the number of finals games GAJ and Martin played in the respective years of their careers as an example.

I mean, if you want to take the worst 7 finals games of GAJ's career, which I expect will be from the 13 games he played in years 3, 4, 17, 18 and 19 of his career, and compare them to Martin's worst 7 finals, of which only three were played outside of his peak 2017 to 2020 period, then be my guest.

But don't expect anyone who has an iota of analytical skills to take any notice of your comments.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ablett not the best in 2014 despite his season finishing at round 15 but leading the Brownlow through to round 21, and trying to include that in a 7 year period where Dusty was the best.

So you can say 2007-2014 in that 8 year period isolated, Ablett is the best player in the AFL over the whole period rather than in each individual year, not in the conversation any other time.

It is not saying much that elevates him above Martin because you could as easily say Martin 2013-2020 is the best performed player in that 8 year period without question, though not the best player in every individual season. Where Ablett has done more of something for longer Martin has done more of something else for longer. But the way they are easily separated is finals output. Ablett despite your fantastic claims to the contrary is not considered to be anywhere near Martin on that score. Which is one of the tests you used to try to differentiate Ablett from Martin that he was “considered” the best player in the AFL leading into xyz amount of seasons. I will later watch Ablett’s finals in his prime and give an honest appraisal v Martin’s prime finals with which I am more familiar. But statistically and for impact and acclaim, Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead on that score. Bar your ratings, which says it all really.

 

[Fadge]

So you can say 2007-2014 in that 8 year period isolated, Ablett is the best player in the AFL over the whole period rather than in each individual year, not in the conversation any other time.

It is not saying much that elevates him above Martin because you could as easily say Martin 2013-2020 is the best performed player in that 8 year period without question, though not the best player in every individual season. Where Ablett has done more of something for longer Martin has done more of something else for longer. But the way they are easily separated is finals output. Ablett despite your fantastic claims to the contrary is not considered to be anywhere near Martin on that score. Which is one of the tests you used to try to differentiate Ablett from Martin that he was “considered” the best player in the AFL leading into xyz amount of seasons. I will later watch Ablett’s finals in his prime and give an honest appraisal v Martin’s prime finals with which I am more familiar. But statistically and for impact and acclaim, Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead on that score. Bar your ratings, which says it all really.

So Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead of GAJ in finals, because you're yet to actually watch GAJ's finals...

I won't even waste my time commenting on your 8 year windows for GAJ and Martin.

Oh my.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't want to take away any data.

I'm just commenting that when you have the following data set it's not exactly a like for like comparison:

Years into career of finals games:
Player 1 - Gary Ablett Junior - 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 17, 18, 19 (5 x finals in years 3 and 4, 8 x finals in years 17,18,19)
Player 2 - Dustin Martin - 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 (2 x finals total in years 4 and 6)

Or do you disagree?

Martin played in a final in his 5th year.

 

[JackOutback]

It is not saying much that elevates him above Martin because you could as easily say Martin 2013-2020 is the best performed player in that 8 year period without question, though not the best player in every individual season.

No you couldn't.

 

[VicBased]

So far I have watched 1/4 of Ablett’s 2008 GF v Hawks and taken some notes. This is my busiest time of the year, but I will watch either all Ablett’s prime aged finals eventually or a good selection of them as my time opens up a bit more as it is a big undertaking. Currently working 3 jobs to keep the country running.

You might need to go out and get some exercise.

 

[Trav 20]

Martin played in a final in his 5th year.

Fourth.

 

[Sttew]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

 

[caveman72]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

He should hit 1,000,000 words in his next few posts

 

[blaisee]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

I think you should reflect on the fact that you took the time to work all that out.

Its pretty sad, understandable considering the pain Dusty has caused you, but sad nonetheless, move on man, for your own peace of mind !

 

[Sttew]

I think you should reflect on the fact that you took the time to work all that out.

Its pretty sad, understandable considering the pain Dusty has caused you, but sad nonetheless, move on man, for your own peace of mind !

Do you actually believe I counted the words?

Working out the %'s took me 30 seconds

BTW, Dusty caused us pain. No question. But I subscribe to the maxim, "there's no gain without pain", and the 2022 premiership bears that out. So I am happy

 

[blaisee]

Do you actually believe I counted the words?

Working out the %'s took me 30 seconds

BTW, Dusty caused us pain. No question. But I subscribe to the maxim, "there's no gain without pain", and the 2022 premiership bears that out. So I am happy

You are happy ?

bitter and twisted yes, happy, not so much

But suit yourself

 

[HAPPY CHEFFY]

So Martin is starting from a position of being way ahead of GAJ in finals, because you're yet to actually watch GAJ's finals...

I won't even waste my time commenting on your 8 year windows for GAJ and Martin.

Oh my.

But but but he obviously only watches stat sheets, not games. He’s too busy to watch games because “ain’t no one got time for dat!!!”

Hell, it’s already been 15 years and he still hasn’t had time to watch the 2008 GF yet, cut him some slack would yah..!?!

 

[Fadge]

But but but he obviously only watches stat sheets, not games. He’s too busy to watch games because “ain’t no on got time for dat!!!”

Hell, it’s already been 15 years and he still hasn’t had time to watch the 2008 GF yet, cut him some slack would yah..!?!

It's not hard to appreciate why Richmond supporters took a break from footy for a few decades over that time...

 

[HAPPY CHEFFY]

Meteoric Rise is a mess. Despite contributing more than 9% of posts in this thread and a whopping 675,234 words, he is still not making any sense.

But the poor lad is busy working 3 jobs to keep the country afloat.

Have some compassion.

 

[blaisee]

It's not hard to appreciate why Richmond supporters took a break from footy for a few decades over that time...

are you living in alternate universe?

Its like you pretend to forget the fact that you have won 2 flags in SEVEN decades lol

 

[Sttew]

You are happy ?

bitter and twisted yes, happy, not so much

But suit yourself

What would I be bitter & twisted about? As I said no gain without pain, and Cats go into 2023 with plenty of positives. But we are digressing here. This is a thread about Dusty being the greatest thing since sliced bread

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Martin was good from game one, Ablett jnr was average when he started.
Wayne Carey said Ablett jnr is a bit overated because he wasn't a game breaker and that ranking up possessions was overated.

 

[Trav 20]

Martin was good from game one, Ablett jnr was average when he started.
Wayne Carey said Ablett jnr is a bit overated because he wasn't a game breaker and that ranking up possessions was overated.

Some Geelong fans know I'm not JNRs greatest fan, although still a huge fan, but his body of work from 2007 onwards renders his 2002-2006 irrelevant when judging his career.

He was still damaging and kicking 30+ goals as a small forward during that brief part of his career.

 

[Fadge]

Some Geelong fans know I'm not JNRs greatest fan, although still a huge fan, but his body of work from 2007 onwards renders his 2002-2006 irrelevant when judging his career.

He was still damaging and kicking 30+ goals as a small forward during that brief part of his career.

Agree.

I can't recall any other player who has been universally regarded as the best player in the game for a decade (2007 to 2016) in my 40 odd years of watching footy, so it would be unreasonable to downgrade your assessment of him because he wasn't the best player in the game for his two decade long career.