Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[ElectricG]

Your 48 % looks to have come from averaging of a survey of 26 countries, there are 195 in the world. The 26 don’t include China, India or all but 2 countries in Africa.

Concern about climate change shrinks globally as threat grows - study

Concerns about climate change shrank across the world last year, a survey shows, with fewer than half those questioned believing it posed a "very serious threat" to their countries in the next 20 years.

www.reuters.com

The survey I found looked at 121 countries including China.

Anyway. I agree that we are failing to win hearts and minds by writing people off as cookers and having a little girl yell at them on tv.

But to return to my initial question, what should we do? Or is the idea that we give equal weighting to opinion polls and say “oh well the people have spoken” and throw caution to the wind.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I suppose it's nice for you that you're an exception, but there's certainly a strong convergence of people who were opposed to any measures to do anything about covid, and those who are opposed to any form of climate change related action.

It's a tribal thing now.

I wouldn't call myself an "exception" at all...

These sweeping statements you are making are not helping your arguments

 

[Fadge]

Concern about climate change shrinks globally as threat grows - study

Concerns about climate change shrank across the world last year, a survey shows, with fewer than half those questioned believing it posed a "very serious threat" to their countries in the next 20 years.

www.reuters.com

The survey I found looked at 121 countries including China.

Anyway. I agree that we are failing to win hearts and minds by writing people off as cookers and having a little girl yell at them on tv.

But to return to my initial question, what should we do? Or is the idea that we give equal weighting to opinion polls and say “oh well the people have spoken” and throw caution to the wind.

The key takeaway is that concern about climate change is reducing, so clearly the alarmist articles, exaggerated modelling and fruitless protesting isn't working.

So you tell us - what would be a better way to approach it?!?

 

[adogsfan5]

Interesting that Americans had never heard of “rain bombs” , if their news services are anything to go by, yet our very own BoM has been rolling it out along with other catastrophist language over the past couple of years. Fear is a useful tool.

I’m very much in the category that we can’t continue to live our current way of life, and changes are needed and I’m excited to see how that looks for the future. There are little things already that I am doing as an individual, but boy have I had a gutful from some of the alarmists out there.

 

[O Grobbecker]

...

But to return to my initial question, what should we do? Or is the idea that we give equal weighting to opinion polls and say “oh well the people have spoken” and throw caution to the wind.

If you are convinced, keep trying to persuade and buy a property in the High Country (assuming that you live or are prepared to live in Victoria). I can't see that anything more can be done. However, accept that you might be wrong.

 

[owen87]

I wouldn't call myself an "exception" at all...

These sweeping statements you are making are not helping your arguments

Ah. The technicalities are back.

For someone who deems themselves intelligent enough to understand and critique climate modelling you do a wonderful job of protesting your ignorance on basic things.

'waah stop lumping me in with the RWNJ's'

 

[ElectricG]

The key takeaway is that concern about climate change is reducing, so clearly the alarmist articles, exaggerated modelling and fruitless protesting isn't working.

So you tell us - what would be a better way to approach it?!?

To convince people, you mean?

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Ah. The technicalities are back.

For someone who deems themselves intelligent enough to understand and critique climate modelling you do a wonderful job of protesting your ignorance on basic things.

'waah stop lumping me in with the RWNJ's'

I never said I critiqued climate modelling. You're putting words in my mouth again.

The reality is there have been countless, alarmist models that with the benefit of time have been proven to be hopelessly incorrect.

After witnessing the mature way you debated the covid science time and time again throughout the pandemic, I'm personally a little disappointed in the way you are presenting yourself in here.

 

[Gethelred]

Concern about climate change shrinks globally as threat grows - study

Concerns about climate change shrank across the world last year, a survey shows, with fewer than half those questioned believing it posed a "very serious threat" to their countries in the next 20 years.

www.reuters.com

The survey I found looked at 121 countries including China.

Anyway. I agree that we are failing to win hearts and minds by writing people off as cookers and having a little girl yell at them on tv.

But to return to my initial question, what should we do? Or is the idea that we give equal weighting to opinion polls and say “oh well the people have spoken” and throw caution to the wind.

It's a little bit interesting how she's a little girl for the purposes of her climate activism, but an adult guilty of bodyshaming if she accuses Andrew Tate of exhibiting SDE.

 

[owen87]

I never said I critiqued climate modelling

alarmist models

hopelessly incorrect

I see.

 

[ElectricG]

It's a little bit interesting how she's a little girl for the purposes of her climate activism, but an adult guilty of bodyshaming if she accuses Andrew Tate of exhibiting SDE.

I don’t recall wading into that whole discussion.

 

[Gethelred]

I don’t recall wading into that whole discussion.

Not really talking about just you. What she is - her identity - shifts depending on how you want her message perceived.

If she's guilty of bodyshaming, she needs to be an adult. If she's not really worth listening to on climate change, she needs to be a child unable to make her own decisions. Greta somehow is both things or neither, depending on what is required to oppose her.

That's the interesting thing. You specifically don't need to be part of the second convo for the observation to apply.

 

[Fadge]

To convince people, you mean?

For humankind to work together effectively for the greater good.

Noone needs convincing.

 

[ElectricG]

Not really talking about just you. What she is - her identity - shifts depending on how you want her message perceived.

If she's guilty of bodyshaming, she needs to be an adult. If she's not really worth listening to on climate change, she needs to be a child unable to make her own decisions. Greta somehow is both things or neither, depending on what is required to oppose her.

That's the interesting thing. You specifically don't need to be part of the second convo for the observation to apply.

I could follow this up with a fairly banal statement about how people just feel the need to pick a side these days. “Greta’s having Twitter beef with a human trafficker? Oh well guess I’m on team Tate!“
I do think it’s possible to both-sides this issue but I really can’t be fricked.

 

[Fadge]

I see.

I noticed you excluded the phrase 'with the benefit of time'.

Very convenient, and standard modus operandi.

 

[O Grobbecker]

Concern about climate change shrinks globally as threat grows - study

Concerns about climate change shrank across the world last year, a survey shows, with fewer than half those questioned believing it posed a "very serious threat" to their countries in the next 20 years.

www.reuters.com

The survey I found looked at 121 countries including China.

Anyway. I agree that we are failing to win hearts and minds by writing people off as cookers and having a little girl yell at them on tv.

But to return to my initial question, what should we do? Or is the idea that we give equal weighting to opinion polls and say “oh well the people have spoken” and throw caution to the wind.

That survey averaged 1,030 per country surveyed and in 62 % of countries. Not a criticism of you but I don't consider that it is repesentative enough to draw a meaniungful conclusion.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The idea that we have to sit on our hands and wait for China and India to do everything is flawed, when part of the problem is that the technical solutions still need to be better.

No one has said do nothing, as I stated before. But the desired outcome can't happen if everyone is not on board. The protesters and pressure groups, mainly in the youthful age range, who are the most vehement in support of climate change, could perhaps go back to school and study towards solving the technical problems. There should be scholarships available (on merit, please) to encourage young people to enter the field and do everything possible to create the pathways they so desire. I bet they would do/are doing it in China.

 

[adogsfan5]

No one has said do nothing, as I stated before. But the desired outcome can't happen if everyone is not on board. The protesters and pressure groups, mainly in the youthful age range, who are the most vehement in support of climate change, could perhaps go back to school and study towards solving the technical problems. There should be scholarships available (on merit, please) to encourage young people to enter the field and do everything possible to create the pathways they so desire. I bet they would do/are doing it in China.

Here’s a legit question - are their groups protesting in China regarding climate change?

 

[owen87]

No one has said do nothing, as I stated before. But the desired outcome can't happen if everyone is not on board. The protesters and pressure groups, mainly in the youthful age range, who are the most vehement in support of climate change, could perhaps go back to school and study towards solving the technical problems. There should be scholarships available (on merit, please) to encourage young people to enter the field and do everything possible to create the pathways they so desire. I bet they would do/are doing it in China.

I'm entirely in favour of the government putting funding towards developing and improving renewables technology. Both for the benefit it should offer society in transitioning away from increasingly difficult to access sources of fossil fuels, and to offer a high-tech manufacturing pathway for an economy that can't compete with mass manufacturing practices overseas.

 

[Greta Thunberg]

Here’s a legit question - are their groups protesting in China regarding climate change?

You really don't know much about China, do you?

 

[fishardansin]

That’s all very positive and optimistic but seems to assume ALL countries will be following the same path in step. It leaves no room for political manoeuvring, wars, the economic fluctuatons of the world or individual countries. No doubt a one-world view visualises this renewable nirvana as smoothly transitioning but no timeframe is mentioned. Perhaps 2140, not 2040, if all goes well?

You have to make the move anyhow. If others don't we'll be screwed no matter what we do so it is not like we're missing out on anything. At the very worst we'll have more tech jobs, cleaner cities, less commuting and a shared national purpose before the collapse happens. We also can't really be making demands on other nations if we're not moving.

As far as "one world" goes, it would be nice if there was a global democratic body that had some regulatory teeth.

 

[fishardansin]

It's not perfect but it's better than radiation.

I was referring to Coal anyway which you obviously missed!

 

[fishardansin]

I think it is weird that people living the large Western Economies that have burnt fossil fuels for more than a century to industrialise, to a point that moving past fossil fuels should be easy, think that nations that have been developing for a few decades will make the same cuts as them. On top of that, China's figures are distorted by the fact that they are doing a lot of producing for our consumer companies and markets.

We need to be at the forefront and help build the tech in the global south.

China is making all the right noises btw. This isn't the same as achieving objectives, but they are aiming for carbon neutrality in 2060. That is way too late because we clearly have to be less than 50% by 2030 and zero well before 2040 if we're aiming to not kill millions of people and most likely cause a refugee crisis that will make the end of the Western Roman Empire look like three families going caravaning at the beach together.

I think it is worth going all out but still acknowledge there is a low probability of us avoiding a complete collapse this century.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I think it is weird that people living the large Western Economies that have burnt fossil fuels for more than a century to industrialise, to a point that moving past fossil fuels should be easy, think that nations that have been developing for a few decades will make the same cuts as them. On top of that, China's figures are distorted by the fact that they are doing a lot of producing for our consumer companies and markets.

We need to be at the forefront and help build the tech in the global south.

China is making all the right noises btw. This isn't the same as achieving objectives, but they are aiming for carbon neutrality in 2060. That is way too late because we clearly have to be less than 50% by 2030 and zero well before 2040 if we're aiming to not kill millions of people and most likely cause a refugee crisis that will make the end of the Western Roman Empire look like three families going caravaning at the beach together.

I think it is worth going all out but still acknowledge there is a low probability of us avoiding a complete collapse this century.

2040 now? How many countries have pledged to be zero by 2040?

 

[adogsfan5]

You really don't know much about China, do you?

Please tell me more