List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Walkingwounded]

We'd be mad to pass on Stubbs at this stage of our growth and his stage of development imo.

Going by Stubbs back story, skills are not the issue, motivation, dedication and application are!

Hold on we have had a few like that, and I can only think of one that turned the corner.

 

[Taylor]

...and Walters outlasted them all

 

[s_wd6]

If Stubbs hadn't done his knee we likely would have picked him up in the MSD.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Walters is the perfect mentor for him. By the looks, it seems to have clicked for Stubbs now.

 

[Purple Suit]

Agree. As I said, not desperate for any KPF.

A slightly different type of KPF as long as they’re high quality would still add quite a bit to the list though.

Honestly though Reidy until a year or so ago was mainly a forward who rucks a bit. The club probably thinks they can develop Knobel in that way too.

L.Serong at this stage is clearly too short for the type of forward you describe. I see he’s done some defence at training - I’d still be happy enough to add him if he’s got that flexibility.

Same goes for small forwards imo. We’ve got plenty of them but it’s clear we lack a natural goal scoring small forward. Not sure Richmond really had one in their premierships though. They had more forward/mids similar to Walters/Switta and pressure forwards similar to Schultz/Frederick imo.

For me when looking at our list we have 30-32 players easily capable of playing good AFL footy. I was never concerned with the numbers of our depth. It’s just whether we can replace a few select structurally important players on our list. There’s one at each end that look like they don’t have someone to replace them and they’re perhaps the two most injury prone players on our list.

The last 5-6 spots on your list of 42 (i.e. excluding Cat B rookies) can be used to develop players for the future. Providing short term depth for the best 22 is probably out of the equation at this stage. Unless we think Stubbs is best 30-32 straight away, I hope we go for the highest potential out of Stubbs and L.Serong tbh.

Walters is the 2nd highest all time goal scorer for Freo. If he isn’t a natural goal scorer then I don’t know who is. It’s more that he is old and we need a replacement soon.

 

[pK75]

Going by Stubbs back story, skills are not the issue, motivation, dedication and application are!

Hold on we have had a few like that, and I can only think of one that turned the corner.

The fact he is training with us shows he’s already worked out the motivation, dedication and application issues, IMO the only issue with selecting Stubbs is we just drafted Emmett, who plays exactly the same role (albeit we haven’t had a chance to see how good he is due to injury)
Regarding L Serong, we already have plenty of development Talls on our list, so is he looking more likely than Kuek, Draper, Davies and Benning?

 

[go_the_dockers]

Same goes for small forwards imo. We’ve got plenty of them but it’s clear we lack a natural goal scoring small forward. Not sure Richmond really had one in their premierships though. They had more forward/mids similar to Walters/Switta and pressure forwards similar to Schultz/Frederick imo.

From memory, Reiwoldt kicked 50 or 60, Lynch for the later flags about the same, and then prestia and basket kicked around 30.

There are not many premiership teams with out some kicking 50. This is what we need Taberner, or Amiss to do. Then the other players to kick 30 or 40

 

[Docker82]

Walters is the 2nd highest all time goal scorer for Freo. If he isn’t a natural goal scorer then I don’t know who is. It’s more that he is old and we need a replacement soon.

Does he play that way now? I’d think the description of a forward/mid has been pretty much his role for about five years now tbh.

 

[Docker82]

From memory, Reiwoldt kicked 50 or 60, Lynch for the later flags about the same, and then prestia and basket kicked around 30.

There are not many premiership teams with out some kicking 50. This is what we need Taberner, or Amiss to do. Then the other players to kick 30 or 40

I was talking about small forwards and you list two KPFs.

Prestia is very much a forward/mid, as was Lambert. Two very good players but more mids than forwards if anything.

When talking about smalls they very much got by with forward/mids and a bunch of pressure forwards.

You may have noticed both Schultz and Frederick were pretty bloody close to 30 goals last year.

As I’ve said many times I think we’ve got good depth both in the best 22 (players 12-22) and just outside (players 23-32). I don’t think we’ve got the top line players to win a flag at this point. We’re only 2-3 short but we’re short of the top teams,

We’re clearly short a 50 goal a year KPF. People act like we need small forwards that score 2-3 goals game to win a flag. Reality is there’s probably 4-5 smalls that average over two goals a game league wide and premierships have been won without such player.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I was talking about small forwards and you list two KPFs.

Prestia is very much a forward/mid, as was Lambert. Two very good players but more mids than forwards if anything.

When talking about smalls they very much got by with forward/mids and a bunch of pressure forwards.

You may have noticed both Schultz and Frederick were pretty bloody close to 30 goals last year.

As I’ve said many times I think we’ve got good depth both in the best 22 (players 12-22) and just outside (players 23-32). I don’t think we’ve got the top line players to win a flag at this point. We’re only 2-3 short but we’re short of the top teams,

They only got by, as they had two dominit key forwards.

 

[Purple Suit]

Does he play that way now? I’d think the description of a forward/mid has been pretty much his role for about five years now tbh.

He did last season, he struggled at the start re-adjusting to less minutes up the group but he was very dangerous by the end. Coaches moved him up the ground previous years as we had a poor/young midfield and needed him to be competitive.

He’s a natural stay at home forward but I agree others are not and we need another elite one with X factor.

 

[Docker82]

They only got by, as they had two dominit key forwards.

I think our small forwards are also good enough to get by if we had quality KPFs tbh. They’re similar types of small forwards that Richmond had imo.

Is Stubbs really a ‘natural goal scorer’? He scored less than two goals a game at WAFL level last season from around half the season. It’s not exactly like we’re picking up Hayden Ballantyne after winning a Sandover here.

Think we’ll get more improvement out of players already on our list tbh. Even the older like Taberner and Walters if they stay injury free. I’m convinced both played injured a fair bit last year.

 

[Docker82]

He did last season, he struggled at the start re-adjusting to less minutes up the group but he was very dangerous by the end. Coaches moved him up the ground previous years as we had a poor/young midfield and needed him to be competitive.

He’s a natural stay at home forward but I agree others are not and we need another elite one with X factor.

I’m still not overly convinced his best role isn’t forward/mid tbh. Had some good games late in the season but he maybe played a month of good footy in that genuine small forward role - we need a whole season. Guess we’ll wait and see on that one.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I think our small forwards are also good enough to get by if we had quality KPFs tbh. They’re similar types of small forwards that Richmond had imo.

Is Stubbs really a ‘natural goal scorer’? He scored less than two goals a game at WAFL level last season from around half the season. It’s not exactly like we’re picking up Hayden Ballantyne after winning a Sandover here.

Think we’ll get more improvement out of players already on our list tbh. Even the older like Taberner and Walters if they stay injury free. I’m convinced both played injured a fair bit last year.

Agree. This was my point. You need some a grade talent in your forward line, that can kick 45 plus goals. A 60 goal kickers vs a 40 goal kicker is a goal game, makes a big difference.

 

[rgauci]

I was talking about small forwards and you list two KPFs.

Prestia is very much a forward/mid, as was Lambert. Two very good players but more mids than forwards if anything.

When talking about smalls they very much got by with forward/mids and a bunch of pressure forwards.

You may have noticed both Schultz and Frederick were pretty bloody close to 30 goals last year.

As I’ve said many times I think we’ve got good depth both in the best 22 (players 12-22) and just outside (players 23-32). I don’t think we’ve got the top line players to win a flag at this point. We’re only 2-3 short but we’re short of the top teams,

We’re clearly short a 50 goal a year KPF. People act like we need small forwards that score 2-3 goals game to win a flag. Reality is there’s probably 4-5 smalls that average over two goals a game league wide and premierships have been won without such player.

Stars already: Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy
Heading towards stars: Young, Jackson, Cox
Could take the next step: Ryan, Taberner, Pearce, Schultz, Switkowski (injuries / form permitting)
Aging stars: Fyfe, Walters
Possible stars: Frederick, Amiss, Chapman, NOD, Clark, Erasmus, Johnson

We need 7 in the top list.

 

[Docker82]

Stars already: Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy
Heading towards stars: Young, Jackson, Cox
Could take the next step: Ryan, Taberner, Pearce (injuries / form permitting)
Aging stars: Fyfe, Walters
Possible stars: Amiss, Chapman, NOD, Clark, Erasmus, Johnson

We need 7 in the top list.

Not just the amount but where they play imo.

We could have ten A Graders but if none are forwards I still can’t see us winning a flag tbh.

 

[rgauci]

Not just the amount but where they play imo.

We could have ten A Graders but if none are forwards I still can’t see us winning a flag tbh.

I agree, though I’ve added Frederick, Schultz and Switkowski to those who could take the next step.

Listed in the groups is Fyfe, Walters, Taberner, Switkowski, Schultz, Frederick, Amiss…. The bones of an A grade forward line is there, it just needs to click.

 

[pK75]

Stars already: Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy
Heading towards stars: Young, Jackson, Cox
Could take the next step: Ryan, Taberner, Pearce, Schultz, Switkowski (injuries / form permitting)
Aging stars: Fyfe, Walters
Possible stars: Frederick, Amiss, Chapman, NOD, Clark, Erasmus, Johnson

We need 7 in the top list.

Chuck Cox in the Stars already group, made the AA squad last year so is in the top 40 in the league.
Ryan was AA in 2020 and I’m not sure why you separated the aging stars from the already stars?
Pearce should also be up there and if not for anti freo bias would have also been in the AA conversation last year.
Stars: Bradshaw, Serong, Darcy, Cox, Ryan, Pearce, Fyfe, Walters.
Heading towards stars: Young, Jackson.
Close but need to take another step or stay on the park more: Tabs, Switkowski, Schultz, Brodie, JOM (who could be in the star’s group)
Potential future stars: Amiss, NOD, Chapman, Frederick

 

[Docker82]

Chuck Cox in the Stars already group, made the AA squad last year so is in the top 40 in the league.
Ryan was AA in 2020 and I’m not sure why you separated the aging stars from the already stars?
Pearce should also be up there and if not for anti freo bias would have also been in the AA conversation last year.
Stars: Bradshaw, Serong, Darcy, Cox, Ryan, Pearce, Fyfe, Walters.
Heading towards stars: Young, Jackson.
Close but need to take another step or stay on the park more: Tabs, Switkowski, Schultz, Brodie, JOM (who could be in the star’s group)
Potential future stars: Amiss, NOD, Chapman, Frederick

Walters and Fyfe weren’t stars last season but we’ve seen plenty of times ageing stars recapture their form after been written off by the majority of the followers of the AFL. Agree with listing them separately.

He’s a bit younger but I’d probably add JOM to that category as well tbh. JOM dropped off as much due to being played out of position than age.

Wouldn’t have Luke Ryan listed as a star either. Needs to make quicker decisions otherwise he’s a great interceptor that doesn’t offer much else to the team. Talent wise he’s a good enough kick to take the next step but we’ve been waiting a while for it to happen.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Schultz carried the heart of the team in the finals?
I'd say there's more that more overrate him than underrate him

agreed - i'd argue in terms of the type of player he is, he's probably the most 'replaceable' of our smalls

 

[MadMundy]

Where the **** are people getting the idea we should trade Brodie? I'd argue he's untouchable, he just came off of a career best season and was arguably one of our best players, he should go nowhere.

 

[theGav56]

Where the * are people getting the idea we should trade Brodie? I'd argue he's untouchable, he just came off of a career best season and was arguably one of our best players, he should go nowhere.

There actually hasn't been many players we've traded that I have regrets about and that has included a few favourites. The Weller, Hill, Mayne and Meek trades all improved us.

Trading is a critical tool to improve the list, and trading from an area of list depth is the best way to trade. Right now we have two young players in Erasmus and Johnson who project as being the equal or improvements of Brodie in our engine room. If, for example, we traded Brodie for Pickett we improve our best 22.

Thinking there's not going to be discussion about potential trades when there is high end talent destined to play a big chunk of the season at Peel is optimistic. We've already had discussion about both Henry and Treacy who play in areas of the ground we are a little weak in.

 

[pK75]

r

There actually hasn't been many players we've traded that I have regrets about and that has included a few favourites. The Weller, Hill, Mayne and Meek trades all improved us.

Trading is a critical tool to improve the list, and trading from an area of list depth is the best way to trade. Right now we have two young players in Erasmus and Johnson who project as being the equal or improvements of Brodie in our engine room. If, for example, we traded Brodie for Pickett we improve our best 22.

Thinking there's not going to be discussion about potential trades when there is high end talent destined to play a big chunk of the season at Peel is optimistic. We've already had discussion about both Henry and Treacy who play in areas of the ground we are a little weak in.

Yeah…..nah.
Johnson and Erasmus are still at least two years away from being able to do what Brodie does in the middle. By then Fyfe will be a full time fwd or retired, JOM will be 31 and may take over the fwd/mid role Fyfe is going to play this year. Plus you need depth to win premierships, trading Brodie is the least sensible proposal I’ve heard.

 

[theGav56]

r

Yeah…..nah.
Johnson and Erasmus are still at least two years away from being able to do what Brodie does in the middle. By then Fyfe will be a full time fwd or retired, JOM will be 31 and may take over the fwd/mid role Fyfe is going to play this year. Plus you need depth to win premierships, trading Brodie is the least sensible proposal I’ve heard.

Nah... Yeah.

Those boys will step up once they begin to hit the 50 game mark just as happens with most players, and they will have well and truly deserved an opportunity before Fyfe retires.

I'm certainly not going to be shocked if we lose a decent player during the trade period.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think theGav56 has a good point but do we have him contracted for 2 more years? Currently on a very team friendly contract which is pretty valuable for a contending team. We don’t force players out anyway but he’s not a player I’d be busting the cap to keep personally. The type of player you give slightly under market value (ie Acres and Logue) or wish them good luck with whoever is offering too much.