List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Purple Jesus]

I think theGav56 has a good point but do we have him contracted for 2 more years? Currently on a very team friendly contract which is pretty valuable for a contending team. We don’t force players out anyway but he’s not a player I’d be busting the cap to keep personally. The type of player you give slightly under market value (ie Acres and Logue) or wish them good luck with whoever is offering too much.

Buy low, sell high indeed.

 

[The Round House Drunk]

While we’re talking Brodie…

I’m sure we’ll see him vary his style a bit this season and try to burst away from the occasional stoppage if he senses a gap, rather than mostly looking to give the handball.

It was noticeable in the final against Collingwood. When Brodie got his hands on it, the Pies mids would corral him rather than commit to the tackle and try to slap the handball down to force a turnover.

I think he’s got a fair degree of improvement in him.

And he’ll need it to have a good season, because he’s arguably one of the most under pressure to hold his spot if Johnson, Ras etc start knocking on the door with their own form.

 

[theGav56]

While we’re talking Brodie…

I’m sure we’ll see him vary his style a bit this season and try to burst away from the occasional stoppage if he senses a gap, rather than mostly looking to give the handball.

It was noticeable in the final against Collingwood. When Brodie got his hands on it, the Pies mids would corral him rather than commit to the tackle and try to slap the handball down to force a turnover.

I think he’s got a fair degree of improvement in him.

And he’ll need it to have a good season, because he’s arguably one of the most under pressure to hold his spot if Johnson, Ras etc start knocking on the door with their own form.

When I first saw him play for us I was pleasantly surprised, but thought he likely had no upside. I don't think that anymore. His ceiling isn't that much higher but at the level he showed incremental improvement is still significant. He said he was working on his break away speed which would be great to see (good coaching to identify it and motivate the player too).

 

[FreoRicci]

While we’re talking Brodie…

I’m sure we’ll see him vary his style a bit this season and try to burst away from the occasional stoppage if he senses a gap, rather than mostly looking to give the handball.

It was noticeable in the final against Collingwood. When Brodie got his hands on it, the Pies mids would corral him rather than commit to the tackle and try to slap the handball down to force a turnover.

I think he’s got a fair degree of improvement in him.

And he’ll need it to have a good season, because he’s arguably one of the most under pressure to hold his spot if Johnson, Ras etc start knocking on the door with their own form.

Hence why I wasn't overly keen on JOM. Brodie still has loads to give. The chemistry of him with Serong Brayshaw and Darcy was a huge reason for the start to 2022 season. JOM, Fyfe Erasmus just overcrowds it.
I wouldn't mind Erasmus, Johnson coming off the bench with Fyfe FF. However it may likely be JOM in the middle, Brodie on the pine and Fyfe rotating through Ala Pavlich style.

 

[FreoRicci]

When I first saw him play for us I was pleasantly surprised, but thought he likely had no upside. I don't think that anymore. His ceiling isn't that much higher but at the level he showed incremental improvement is still significant. He said he was working on his break away speed which would be great to see (good coaching to identify it and motivate the player too).

Wish he would back himself. He's actually underrated in the breakaway. Feign a handball and then the space is open for him

 

[pK75]

I think theGav56 has a good point but do we have him contracted for 2 more years? Currently on a very team friendly contract which is pretty valuable for a contending team. We don’t force players out anyway but he’s not a player I’d be busting the cap to keep personally. The type of player you give slightly under market value (ie Acres and Logue) or wish them good luck with whoever is offering too much.

Read an article that said Brodie is out of contract this year and that he’s the most needed signing we need to make, can’t remember where, maybe SEN?
Anyway, point remains, he is crucial to our midfield setup even with JOM coming in.
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances as they’ll be first in if any of Brayshaw, Serong, Brodie, JOM, Aish or NOD are unavailable, potentially add Fyfe to that list as well, but I’d hope one of the forwards we have (Corbett, Emmett, Sturt) would take that role if he’s unavailable.

Edit: found it here: The off-contract player your club is sweating on re-signing early in 2023

 

[arsesmart]

Hence why I wasn't overly keen on JOM. Brodie still has loads to give. The chemistry of him with Serong Brayshaw and Darcy was a huge reason for the start to 2022 season. JOM, Fyfe Erasmus just overcrowds it.
I wouldn't mind Erasmus, Johnson coming off the bench with Fyfe FF. However it may likely be JOM in the middle, Brodie on the pine and Fyfe rotating through Ala Pavlich style.

Brodie offers a lot as the honey pot. At his best last year he had 2-3+ opposition hanging off him or swarming around and he still managed to get these great handballs off to advantage. Getting opposition numbers tied up trying to stop him, with more top-quality options to get it off to could make him an even more dangerous player and offer us another level.

 

[theGav56]

Read an article that said Brodie is out of contract this year and that he’s the most needed signing we need to make, can’t remember where, maybe SEN?
Anyway, point remains, he is crucial to our midfield setup even with JOM coming in.
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances as they’ll be first in if any of Brayshaw, Serong, Brodie, JOM, Aish or NOD are unavailable, potentially add Fyfe to that list as well, but I’d hope one of the forwards we have (Corbett, Emmett, Sturt) would take that role if he’s unavailable.

It isn't just Erasmus and Johnson we are looking for opportunities to develop.

In a simplistic replica of how our forward line has been structured in the past the 2023 tall forwards would be Taberner, Jackson and Fyfe.

Development of Amiss and Treacy is surely critical for our future, and worth noting that Treacy is uncontracted. Fyfe is playing forward for a couple of reasons but one of them is definitely because we have plenty of midfielders.

Sturt, Corbett and Emmett are also kept out by Fyfe playing forward.

Here's a challenge;

If Fyfe was playing midfield instead of forward this season, which starting midfielder cone out? For me it's one of JOM or Brodie.

If Fyfe was playing midfield instead of forward this season, which starting forward comes in? For me we should squeeze both Amiss and Treacy in, but Corbett would also have a case.

 

[pK75]

It isn't just Erasmus and Johnson we are looking for opportunities to develop.

In a simplistic replica of how our forward line has been structured in the past the 2023 tall forwards would be Taberner, Jackson and Fyfe.

Development of Amiss and Treacy is surely critical for our future, and worth noting that Treacy is uncontracted. Fyfe is playing forward for a couple of reasons but one of them is definitely because we have plenty of midfielders.

Sturt, Corbett and Emmett are also kept out by Fyfe playing forward.

Here's a challenge;

If Fyfe was playing midfield instead of forward this season, which starting midfielder cone out? For me it's one of JOM or Brodie.

If Fyfe was playing midfield instead of forward this season, which starting forward cone in? For me we should squeeze both Amiss and Treacy in, but Corbett would also have a case.

So you’re suggesting we trade Fyfe and Brodie now?

 

[theGav56]

So you’re suggesting we trade Fyfe and Brodie now?

So your suggesting we trade Erasmus, Johnson, Amiss and Treacy now?

Am I doing this right?

 

[pK75]

So your suggesting we trade Erasmus, Johnson, Amiss and Treacy now?

Am I doing this right?

No, I’m saying the onus is on them to overtake those in the starting 22 and take the position on merit, not have the better player traded out to give them opportunities.

 

[theGav56]

No, I’m saying the onus is on them to overtake those in the starting 22 and take the position on merit, not have the better player traded out to give them opportunities.

No. You made up the idea that I want to trade Fyfe and Brodie.

This thread is a List Management thread which is exactly what I'm discussing. Specifically I am suggesting we have overstocked areas of our list and how that impacts us.

 

[greatgatsby]

Read an article that said Brodie is out of contract this year and that he’s the most needed signing we need to make, can’t remember where, maybe SEN?
Anyway, point remains, he is crucial to our midfield setup even with JOM coming in.
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances as they’ll be first in if any of Brayshaw, Serong, Brodie, JOM, Aish or NOD are unavailable, potentially add Fyfe to that list as well, but I’d hope one of the forwards we have (Corbett, Emmett, Sturt) would take that role if he’s unavailable.

Edit: found it here: The off-contract player your club is sweating on re-signing early in 2023

Surely we didn't lengthen Brodie's contract by just one year?

 

[theGav56]

Surely we didn't lengthen Brodie's contract by just one year?

Footywire has him until 2023.

 

[Taylor]

This has been a source of contention but I am quite sure my ears heard it right from Bell or Walls' mouth that the Brodie contract is three years.

 

[theGav56]

This has been a source of contention but I am quite sure my ears heard it right from Bell or Walls' mouth that the Brodie contract is three years.

I thought that too, but I can't find anything online. Everything seems to say 2023.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Read an article that said Brodie is out of contract this year and that he’s the most needed signing we need to make, can’t remember where, maybe SEN?
Anyway, point remains, he is crucial to our midfield setup even with JOM coming in.
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances as they’ll be first in if any of Brayshaw, Serong, Brodie, JOM, Aish or NOD are unavailable, potentially add Fyfe to that list as well, but I’d hope one of the forwards we have (Corbett, Emmett, Sturt) would take that role if he’s unavailable.

Edit: found it here: The off-contract player your club is sweating on re-signing early in 2023

The big question for me is can Brodie up his game time.

If stays at 70% game time, I think we can afford to lose him. Especially with Erasmus and Johnson ready by next year.

Also depends on what salary he asks for. 400k would be good.

 

[pK75]

No. You made up the idea that I want to trade Fyfe and Brodie.

This thread is a List Management thread which is exactly what I'm discussing. Specifically I am suggesting we have overstocked areas of our list and how that impacts us.

Yes, and I disagree we are overstocked for midfielders, we just lost Mundy, Acres, Blakey and Crowden and replaced them with JOM, Williams (cat b rookie) and Wagner (hbf/wing) all our other recruits are forwards, Backs or rucks.
Our peel mids are Johnson, Erasmus, Henry and Worner, maybe Hughes if you think he’s a winger.
Trading Brodie is the least sensible idea I have heard is what I said and you doubled down on it

Edit: I forgot Tucker.
Those players combined for 58 games in 2022, Mundy 22, Acres 20, Tucker 14 and Crowden 2 (unused Sub but this year is a tactical sub, so would be used) I know JOM is good, but he’s not going to fill all those games!
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances, especially with the tactical sub rule this year.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yes, and I disagree we are overstocked for midfielders, we just lost Mundy, Acres, Blakey and Crowden and replaced them with JOM, Williams (cat b rookie) and Wagner (hbf/wing) all our other recruits are forwards, Backs or rucks.
Our peel mids are Johnson, Erasmus, Henry and Worner, maybe Hughes if you think he’s a winger.
Trading Brodie is the least sensible idea I have heard is what I said and you doubled down on it

I think we over overstocked on inside mids, but lack quality quick outside mids and half forwards.

 

[theGav56]

Yes, and I disagree we are overstocked for midfielders, we just lost Mundy, Acres, Blakey and Crowden and replaced them with JOM, Williams (cat b rookie) and Wagner (hbf/wing) all our other recruits are forwards, Backs or rucks.
Our peel mids are Johnson, Erasmus, Henry and Worner, maybe Hughes if you think he’s a winger.
Trading Brodie is the least sensible idea I have heard is what I said and you doubled down on it

Edit: I forgot Tucker.
Those players combined for 58 games in 2022, Mundy 22, Acres 20, Tucker 14 and Crowden 2 (unused Sub but this year is a tactical sub, so would be used) I know JOM is good, but he’s not going to fill all those games!
Erasmus and Johnson will get plenty of chances, especially with the tactical sub rule this year.

As you have done previously you misrepresent what I have said. I don't actually advocate trading anyone. In referring to Brodie I suggest that if we traded him for Pickett then we improve our list. That is how good trading works, and it is critical to being a successful club.

I understand that losing Blakey and Crowden and Tucker may make you nervous that we have lost inside mid depth. By that I mean I understand your words. I don't understand your logic. And given we have zero inside mids active in the train ons I'm thinking the club thinks we are ok for inside mids too.

The reality is we picked up O'Meara and have Fyfe returning from injury. They are joined by 2 emerging guns. If Longmuir can't figure out how to cover the lost games using those resources then we are in trouble.

 

[pK75]

As you have done previously you misrepresent what I have said. I don't actually advocate trading anyone. In referring to Brodie I suggest that if we traded him for Pickett then we improve our list. That is how good trading works, and it is critical to being a successful club.

I understand that losing Blakey and Crowden and Tucker may make you nervous that we have lost inside mid depth. By that I mean I understand your words. I don't understand your logic. And given we have zero inside mids active in the train ons I'm thinking the club thinks we are ok for inside mids too.

The reality is we picked up O'Meara and have Fyfe returning from injury. They are joined by 2 emerging guns. If Longmuir can't figure out how to cover the lost games using those resources then we are in trouble.

I give up.

You literally said twice now you would trade Brodie for Pickett but somehow I am misrepresenting your words when I said trading Brodie was the least sensible thing I’ve heard?

You also said having Brodie in the team meant Fyfe was able to play forward and deny opportunities to our other players in Corbett, Emmett and Sturt.

I clearly can’t comprehend what you are saying because when I read your posts it seems you are saying Brodie and by extension Fyfe are denying development to no less that 5 players.

I offered up facts that the players who left played a total of 58 games last year so there would be ample opportunity for the young mids to show their wares.

I didn’t even mention the 23 games Banfield played or the 18 Colyer played, these are guys Johnson & Erasmus should be targeting to replace at this stage of their careers, as JL alluded to in his SEN interview.

“
“In the early stages of their careers, they’re going to have to play other roles outside of the midfield but I think in the future we’ll see them as full time midfielders,” Longmuir said.

“There is a little gap period in the early part of your career where you have to be flexible.

“Whether that’s on the wing or forward, like we played ‘Ras’ a little bit last year, we’ll still work that out.”

But sure, I am misinterpreting your words.

 

[Ysaye]

I give up.

You literally said twice now you would trade Brodie for Pickett but somehow I am misrepresenting your words when I said trading Brodie was the least sensible thing I’ve heard?

You also said having Brodie in the team meant Fyfe was able to play forward and deny opportunities to our other players in Corbett, Emmett and Sturt.

I clearly can’t comprehend what you are saying because when I read your posts it seems you are saying Brodie and by extension Fyfe are denying development to no less that 5 players.

I offered up facts that the players who left played a total of 58 games last year so there would be ample opportunity for the young mids to show their wares.

I didn’t even mention the 23 games Banfield played or the 18 Colyer played, these are guys Johnson & Erasmus should be targeting to replace at this stage of their careers, as JL alluded to in his SEN interview.

“
“In the early stages of their careers, they’re going to have to play other roles outside of the midfield but I think in the future we’ll see them as full time midfielders,” Longmuir said.

“There is a little gap period in the early part of your career where you have to be flexible.

“Whether that’s on the wing or forward, like we played ‘Ras’ a little bit last year, we’ll still work that out.”

But sure, I am misinterpreting your words.

I understand that you offered up some facts about players leaving having a total of 58 games, but how do those facts relate to your argument about Brodie being irreplaceable (or rather it being a bad idea to trade him) or allowing younger players more opportunities?

The issues I see with the logic (which I believe Gav is trying to point out):

• I don't think there will be any more opportunity for the Erasmus's or Johnson's of the world in the 22 than there was last year; my reasoning is that although we lost a heap of midfield players, only two were best 22 (Mundy and Acres). These two very much look like they will be directly replaced by the returning Fyfe and O'Meara due to years of experience and prior performances.
• Tucker, Banfield and Colyer only played when we were down from the best 22; hence why they finished the year in the WAFL, so they are irrelevant to an argument of Erasmus or Johnson getting a go or Brodie being irreplaceable, and Blakely and Crowden did not play in the 22 so their loss was not significant because they were not high up in the pecking order anyway.

Like Gav, Brodie being discuss for being traded is a hypothetical not a "we must do trade him" in all situations; rather what he is pointing out is that if Brodie was traded for someone like Pickett that would improve the overall 22 by adding more firepower into the forward line by leaving a place in the midfield that could directly be replaced by a top 10 pick in either Fyfe (who seems currently consigned to majority forward line time), Erasmus, Henry or a promising Johnson.

 

[Square Peg]

We wouldn't get much for Brodie anyway would we?
There is no way he is untouchable as MM claimed, he's touchable, it's just we wouldn't get much for someone touching him to make it worthwhile, would we?
He's more valuable to us as last man in/first man out of the midfield which will be likely his level if/when Johnson and Erasmus and NO'D come on as expected.

 

[theGav56]

I give up.

You literally said twice now you would trade Brodie for Pickett but somehow I am misrepresenting your words when I said trading Brodie was the least sensible thing I’ve heard?

You also said having Brodie in the team meant Fyfe was able to play forward and deny opportunities to our other players in Corbett, Emmett and Sturt.

I clearly can’t comprehend what you are saying because when I read your posts it seems you are saying Brodie and by extension Fyfe are denying development to no less that 5 players.

I offered up facts that the players who left played a total of 58 games last year so there would be ample opportunity for the young mids to show their wares.

I didn’t even mention the 23 games Banfield played or the 18 Colyer played, these are guys Johnson & Erasmus should be targeting to replace at this stage of their careers, as JL alluded to in his SEN interview.

“
“In the early stages of their careers, they’re going to have to play other roles outside of the midfield but I think in the future we’ll see them as full time midfielders,” Longmuir said.

“There is a little gap period in the early part of your career where you have to be flexible.

“Whether that’s on the wing or forward, like we played ‘Ras’ a little bit last year, we’ll still work that out.”

But sure, I am misinterpreting* your words

The majority of the 58 games you seem panicked about will be gobbled up by O'Meara and Fyfe. I don't recall anywhere seeing Colyer and Banfield in anyone's best 22. Handy depth which we have a lot of. I personally have them as third or fourth options for us in their preferred positions.

Yes, if Fyfe was playing midfield instead of forward we would see more opportunities for our emerging tall/medium forwards. Would you be preferring Banfield and Colyer?

Yes, if Fyfe was playing midfield we would see less opportunity for Brodie to play. I don't expect to see a lot of Fyfe and Brodie lining up together at centre bounces.

I am saying those decisions impact the development of our emerging players. What you said I said is that we should trade Fyfe and Brodie. Those two statements are not the same. That is you misrepresenting* my statement.

Saying that I would trade Brodie for Pickett and that would improve our list also isn't saying I want to trade Brodie. That is you misrepresenting* my statement.

I am quite neutral about trading Brodie, but if he wants a trade or doesn't like the contract we offer, we can cover him comfortably, and I expect we can turn that to our advantage.

*I don't say misinterpreting. You say it. I say misrepresenting.

 

[theGav56]

We wouldn't get much for Brodie anyway would we?
There is no way he is untouchable as MM claimed, he's touchable, it's just we wouldn't get much for someone touching him to make it worthwhile, would we?
He's more valuable to us as last man in/first man out of the midfield which will be likely his level if/when Johnson and Erasmus and NO'D come on as expected.

I disagree and think he would equate to the Clark trade or a player such as Pickett. But if he isn't valued, then all the more to fast track Erasmus and Johnson.

I can see a similar contract situation to Acres: An offer another club could significantly better