First 22 in 2023

[SizeMatters]

My best 22 next year after all off season moves and Adams placed on the inactive list, so Payne in is a change from my first go.

Backline:
Gardiner Payne Starcevich
Coleman Andrews Rich

Midfield:
Berry Clugga Robertson
McInerney Neale Dunkley

Forwards:
Bailey Hipwood Rayner
Gunston Daniher Cameron

Interchange:
Zorko McKenna Ashcroft McCarthy

Sub/Depth:
Wilmot Lyons AhChee Answerth Fort Prior Lohmann Tunstill Fullarton Joyce etc etc!

Toss of the coin between McKenna and Wilmot for the last spot on the bench, whoever misses out is the sub for mine.

I'm really worried about our forward lines ability to do the dirty work. The chasing, tackling, corralling etc. Hopefully the news systems the club has been working on filters through to them.

 

[Sherrinator]

I hope that we play Dev over Lyons by default this year. Need a player who is capable of driving defensive standards.

 

[mpal6]

I hope that we play Dev over Lyons by default this year. Need a player who is capable of driving defensive standards.

See, its not even a Dev vs Lyons thing anymore. Based on practice match looks like Ashcroft will be a lock into midfield off bench. Covers ground, finds footy, tackles hard etc. If he takes that spot then Dev has to find something else to do. May have to learn wing role to stay in best 22.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

whats there issue this time - that there is more running in pre-season?

Coping over the fact that our midfield is better than theirs. Keep seething doggies

 

[briztoon]

whats there issue this time - that there is more running in pre-season?

He said that he’s gone from one good midfield, to a better midfield.

And we do a lot more running than the dogs.

 

[Dalions]

He said that he’s gone from one good midfield, to a better midfield.

And we do a lot more running than the dogs.

Which is interesting because Lachie Neale mentioned a little while ago that we do a bit less running here in Brissie due to the heat.
I guess he is comparing things back to when he was in Freo, where as Dunks is comparing to his time at the dogs, so I guess all clubs just do things a little differently.

Plus the coaching staff here may have recognised that the defensive running ability of the team last year was not up to scratch so has upped the ante in that area this year.

 

[Section 5]

Which is interesting because Lachie Neale mentioned a little while ago that we do a bit less running here in Brissie due to the heat.
I guess he is comparing things back to when he was in Freo, where as Dunks is comparing to his time at the dogs, so I guess all clubs just do things a little differently.

Plus the coaching staff here may have recognised that the defensive running ability of the team last year was not up to scratch so has upped the ante in that area this year.

From the few training session i attended only the midfield group were given additional running sessions.
However, that may have happened last year as well, but my old brain can't recall what happened last preseason.

I did notice one thing earlier in preseason training.
Big O was training with the overall group but continually called out to do some hard laps.
It would be good if Big O could get his TOG yearly average up to at least 85%.
He has only hit the 80"s% once in his career, that was 82.6% in 2021.

 

[On the quiet]

100% agree on Lyons, unless one of Dunkley or Neale is unavailable there is no room for him in the side.

does Lyons still have two or three years left on his contract?

 

[On the quiet]

Agree with you on Lyons.
A fit Lyons is a better player than Dev of the 2022 variety.
Dev can and most likely will improve on his 2022 year.
Lyons i don't think has much improvement on his 2021 season but that year he was excellent.
Last year Lyons was still good up until his injury in round 15.

With the type of injury he has, i hope the club and Jarrod himself just progress enough to have him right at some early stage of the season.
We have good depth now so no need to repeat last year's mistake of playing him injured.
It is a long year and having Lyons back to normal will be a big asset.

Dev's level of improvement is surely linked to coaches backing him in and he is playing consistently in the 1's. FWIW i probably have a fit Lyons just in front of Dev, and Lyons still has a couple of years left on his contract. However, I would like to see Dev given a decent crack at the beginning of the season over Lyons but coaches probably have other thoughts.

 

[mpal6]

does Lyons still have two or three years left on his contract?

2 I think, till 2024.
Also need 11 more games from him to lock in father son rights !

 

[Sherrinator]

See, its not even a Dev vs Lyons thing anymore. Based on practice match looks like Ashcroft will be a lock into midfield off bench. Covers ground, finds footy, tackles hard etc. If he takes that spot then Dev has to find something else to do. May have to learn wing role to stay in best 22.

Same deal. Hate to see Lyons elevated over him in any position when they get their chances.

 

[KissKiss]

I’m hoping we get ourselves into a good enough position ladder wise this year to give the like of Lachie, Dunks, Zorko etc a rest towards the latter part of the year and have them cherry ripe for (hopefully) another finals campaign.

There is no way with the depth we now have in the team that we should be “burning out” the best 22, playing them for 22 rounds. Geelong have been playing that card for years and it’s time to learn from the best.

I've been hoping for this the last few years and really hope this year it clicks to rotate, rest and give experience to more players.

If Lyons is fit come mid year then it makes total sense for him to come in a chop out for guys.

Ashcroft sounds like he is a lock but its a huge load for him to play a full year. He should look to get breaks at some point in the year.

We have an excess of back flankers and guy like McKenna might need some to to get back up to speed. Rich also could do with breaks across the year.

Zorko sounds fit again but it would be crazy if he played every game. Getting bursts of top level play would have to be better than grinding him down again

 

[Mighty Lions]

I've been hoping for this the last few years and really hope this year it clicks to rotate, rest and give experience to more players.

If Lyons is fit come mid year then it makes total sense for him to come in a chop out for guys.

Ashcroft sounds like he is a lock but its a huge load for him to play a full year. He should look to get breaks at some point in the year.

We have an excess of back flankers and guy like McKenna might need some to to get back up to speed. Rich also could do with breaks across the year.

Zorko sounds fit again but it would be crazy if he played every game. Getting bursts of top level play would have to be better than grinding him down again

Disagree...if they are fit and not fatigued, they should play every game...and more importantly, they will want to play every game.

 

[KissKiss]

Disagree...if they are fit and not fatigued, they should play every game...and more importantly, they will want to play every game.

We hear every year how many players have niggles or tired or have just come off a cold or something else. I dont think there is the slightest chance that many (if any) players will be fully fit and not fatigued for every game over a season.

I still personally think that our sport is immature about best utilising a full list across the whole season. Rotation and resting players is tough to get 100% right. Its always judged in hindsight but if you want the best chance at winning premiership you have to consider getting your best 22 fit and not fatigued on the day. Resting young and old and best players has to be considered in that

 

[Mighty Lions]

We hear every year how many players have niggles or tired or have just come off a cold or something else. I dont think there is the slightest chance that many (if any) players will be fully fit and not fatigued for every game over a season.

I still personally think that our sport is immature about best utilising a full list across the whole season. Rotation and resting players is tough to get 100% right. Its always judged in hindsight but if you want the best chance at winning premiership you have to consider getting your best 22 fit and not fatigued on the day. Resting young and old and best players has to be considered in that

Agree with playing fit and not fatigued players 100%. Most players in ALL clubs play high numbers of games with niggles every week. Sitting out a game to get an injury right is one thing but I am against resting players unless they are fatigued or need time to get over a niggle or injury. Rotating players just for the sake of it is wrong in my opinion. Not sure if you are saying that but some here on BF are.
Geelong played 11 years of finals footy before they won last year...I hardly perceive them as the best to learn from....at least not yet.

 

[lionshine]

B Starcevich Andrews Gardiner
HB Rich Payne Coleman
C Berry McCluggage Bailey
HF Zorko Hipwood Rayner
F Cameron Daniher Gunston
R McInerney Neale Dunkley
B McCarthy McKenna Ashcroft Robertson Wilmot

I think this is our best 23. Someone on the bench to be tactical sub(Dev or Wilmot). If we went for our most experienced and battle hardened side you’d replace Ashcroft, Dev and Wilmot with Lyons, Ah Chee and Answerth and I expect those three to play a large number of games(That would round out the top 26 on our list I think).

Fort, Fullarton and Joyce are our main KP depth. Based on pre season form and last year, players like Prior, Tunstill, Sharp, Lohmann will push for games and the likes of Lester, Mathieson and Cockatoo will support those guys in the VFL and be ready if needed to step up into the seniors.

 

[martinson]

Agree with playing fit and not fatigued players 100%. Most players in ALL clubs play high numbers of games with niggles every week. Sitting out a game to get an injury right is one thing but I am against resting players unless they are fatigued or need time to get over a niggle or injury. Rotating players just for the sake of it is wrong in my opinion. Not sure if you are saying that but some here on BF are.
Geelong played 11 years of finals footy before they won last year...I hardly perceive them as the best to learn from....at least not yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong Mighty Lions but wasn't last year the first year Geelong rested and rotated fully fit plyers due to the depth of their list , as stated by their coach , which sort of makes the case for it if you're a strong enough club. As I recall in 2020 they did rest some players with niggles due to a huge cluster of games in the covid period . They played consistently strong superior footy in last years finals . Maybe they were just that much better , fitter or just ran into form at the right time ,or perhaps a combination of all three I suppose.

The problem with resting fully fit players is that none of them would want to do it. But if you have the depth in your list to not affect your performance too much ,as Geelong did in 2022 I can see the case.

 

[M Malice]

Correct me if I'm wrong Mighty Lions but wasn't last year the first year Geelong rested and rotated fully fit plyers due to the depth of their list , as stated by their coach , which sort of makes the case for it if you're a strong enough club. As I recall in 2020 they did rest some players with niggles due to a huge cluster of games in the covid period . They played consistently strong superior footy in last years finals . Maybe they were just that much better , fitter or just ran into form at the right time ,or perhaps a combination of all three I suppose.

The problem with resting fully fit players is that none of them would want to do it. But if you have the depth in your list to not affect your performance too much ,as Geelong did in 2022 I can see the case.

The Cats absolutely monstered us and the Swans in the finals although they very nearly lost the Qualifying Final against the Magpies.. who knows how the finals would have unfolded if that result went the other way.

A lot has to line up for a flag to be won, eg. good injury run, key players injured for your opponent, bounce of the ball in a close finish.

Hopefully it all lines up for us this season, we no doubt have a list that is capable of winning a flag.

 

[martinson]

The Cats absolutely monstered us and the Swans in the finals although they very nearly lost the Qualifying Final against the Magpies.. who knows how the finals would have unfolded if that result went the other way.

A lot has to line up for a flag to be won, eg. good injury run, key players injured for your opponent, bounce of the ball in a close finish.

Hopefully it all lines up for us this season, we no doubt have a list that is capable of winning a flag.

Geelong were the best team all year . Their W/L and percentage was far superior to anyone else. If they had've lost that first final to Collingwood I still think they would've won the flag in similar fashion.

But yes there's rarely anyone so superior that they can fully overcome the raft of things that can happen to upset your run at it.

But to see the way Selwood ,Dangerfield and another couple of their Senior citizens were running around in that GF was a reasonably strong testament to the way they were managed through the year.

Of course the first thing you have to do is get there.

 

[M Malice]

Geelong were the best team all year . Their W/L and percentage was far superior to anyone else. If they had've lost that first final to Collingwood I still think they would've won the flag in similar fashion.

But yes there's rarely anyone so superior that they can fully overcome the raft of things that can happen to upset your run at it.

But to see the way Selwood ,Dangerfield and another couple of their Senior citizens were running around in that GF was a reasonably strong testament to the way they were managed through the year.

Of course the first thing you have to do is get there.

If the Cats had lost that close final I think some mental demons may have surfaced for them ie. here we go again we're going to fold in the finals.

FWIW I agree with you that we should rest players throughout the season particularly guys like Zorko, Rich, Daniher, Gunston, Neale, Cameron, Andrews.

 

[martinson]

If the Cats had lost that close final I think some mental demons may have surfaced for them ie. here we go again we're going to fold in the finals.

FWIW I agree with you that we should rest players throughout the season particularly guys like Zorko, Rich, Daniher, Gunston, Neale, Cameron, Andrews.

Last year was interesting because everyone was expecting to Geelong to crack given the age of their list and their prior finals campaigns under pressure. Crawling over the line in that first final seemed to get the mental monkey off their back and they never looked back. The rest before the prelim really seemed to freshen them up.

Fwiiw I think it makes perfect sense to rest ageing players provided you can replace them with eager younger players who are worthy of a game and hungry for experience. Of course we never know how the season will unfold . I can't see Fagan resting too many unless we retain a virtually full injury free list. You never want to lose any game if you can help it.

 

[Section 5]

From this list we have 2 that may find it hard to play early in 2023

All-Australians: 7 (Lachie Neale - 3 times, Harris Andrews - 2 times, Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Jack Gunston, Daniel Rich, Dayne Zorko)
Rising Star winners: 1 (Daniel Rich)
Top-10 draft picks: 7 (Callum Ah Chee, Will Ashcroft, Nakia Cockatoo, Joe Daniher, Hugh McCluggage, Cam Rayner, Daniel Rich)

List analysis: Which club has the most All-Australians, top-10 picks?

Which club has the most All-Australians, and which has the most top-10 picks?

www.afl.com.au

 

[martinson]

From this list we have 2 that may find it hard to play early in 2023

All-Australians: 7 (Lachie Neale - 3 times, Harris Andrews - 2 times, Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Jack Gunston, Daniel Rich, Dayne Zorko)
Rising Star winners: 1 (Daniel Rich)
Top-10 draft picks: 7 (Callum Ah Chee, Will Ashcroft, Nakia Cockatoo, Joe Daniher, Hugh McCluggage, Cam Rayner, Daniel Rich)

List analysis: Which club has the most All-Australians, top-10 picks?

Which club has the most All-Australians, and which has the most top-10 picks?

www.afl.com.au

I'm not giving up on Cal cracking the top 22 this year. He's always been a selfless role player. I think he has the skills and game smarts to be better than that but no doubt he's under pressure to win a slot with many similar sized players in his category.

 

[briztoon]

From watching other sports (nba and epl) typically key players are “rested”; if they are carrying a small injury that can be managed with a short break and the schedule is deemed to be soft, or the team is approaching finals and the sports science team want to freshen up a couple of key veterans.

Of course such rests are fluid, and dependant on injuries within the squad and to key players.

 

[Warwick]

B Starcevich Andrews Gardiner
HB Rich Payne Coleman
C Berry McCluggage Bailey
HF Zorko Hipwood Rayner
F Cameron Daniher Gunston
R McInerney Neale Dunkley
B McCarthy McKenna Ashcroft Robertson Wilmot

I think this is our best 23. Someone on the bench to be tactical sub(Dev or Wilmot). If we went for our most experienced and battle hardened side you’d replace Ashcroft, Dev and Wilmot with Lyons, Ah Chee and Answerth and I expect those three to play a large number of games(That would round out the top 26 on our list I think).

Fort, Fullarton and Joyce are our main KP depth. Based on pre season form and last year, players like Prior, Tunstill, Sharp, Lohmann will push for games and the likes of Lester, Mathieson and Cockatoo will support those guys in the VFL and be ready if needed to step up into the seniors.

Pretty accurate I'd say. Personally I'd swap Berry and McCluggage though.