First 22 in 2023

[Section 5]

John Ralph had a go at best 23 and it is not as bad as lots are saying.
In my opinion Joyce won't play if Payne is fit, and Coleman should be on the field. Thats the 2 main errors. Could get worse from a jurno.
Every other player he named is a chance to be named come round 1 thanks to our depth.
Some players positions would change to how he has named the team.

I have 20 of his 23, However i have nobody as a TS as i don't care at this point who is chosen.
Also, i have one wing/midfield position on hold hence the fun poll i ran on the last midfielder. (Dev 14, Lyons 4. Tunstill 2. Ah Chee 1,)
Then i have one half back position up for grabs. Presently the placeholder is Wilmot over McKenna & co.

Ah Chee is a chance to get either the half back position or wing position.
The half back position could go to any of McKenna, Ah Chee, Answerth, Wilmot then a gap to Madden & Cockatoo

So, from Raph's team you could make 1 player change, then switch the TS and it is close to the round 1 side player wise.

Out Joyce in Payne
Switch TS: Coleman to replace either Answerth or McKenna as TS.

 

[RoyBoy17]

I think we will be top 4 or thereabouts pending injury.

The only serious question mark I have on us is our ability to defend. I know team defence is huge but if our back 6 stands up this year I think we win it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think we will be top 4 or thereabouts pending injury.

The only serious question mark I have on us is our ability to defend. I know team defence is huge but if our back 6 stands up this year I think we win it.

I think it's whether our midfield can stand up and not roll over like they did against Geelong last year

 

[Dalions]

I think it's whether our midfield can stand up and not roll over like they did against Geelong last year

In their defence just a little.
They had just come off 2 pretty hard physical and mental wins and were probably spent by the time they got to that game.
If only they won that Covid affected game against Essendon, it may have been a different final series possibly.
But anyway, we look a better team on paper this year but making top 4 and even top 2 is all important for a successful run in the finals.

 

[morsie]

From watching other sports (nba and epl) typically key players are “rested”; if they are carrying a small injury that can be managed with a short break and the schedule is deemed to be soft, or the team is approaching finals and the sports science team want to freshen up a couple of key veterans.

Of course such rests are fluid, and dependant on injuries within the squad and to key players.

Both sports play a huge number of games compared to AFL.

 

[Tom14]

I think it's whether our midfield can stand up and not roll over like they did against Geelong last year

Our midfield stats lie because we had the highest number of stoppages in the comp. In raw stats we were high enough for contested ball, clearances etc - but in actual games we'd lose a lot and our losses were really bad as they were totally unpressured clearances leading to high quality shots for the opposition.

 

[Mighty Lions]

In their defence just a little.
They had just come off 2 pretty hard physical and mental wins and were probably spent by the time they got to that game.
If only they won that Covid affected game against Essendon, it may have been a different final series possibly.
But anyway, we look a better team on paper this year but making top 4 and even top 2 is all important for a successful run in the finals.

agree with Top 2. Home games in finals are a huge advantage.

 

[Scubaveg]

Jon Ralph named our best 22 in the Herald Sun (attached). Always of some interest when a footy scribe puts up a team so thought I would post.

FROM THIS TEAM

Pretty obvious Payne in for Joyce assuming Payne fit.

Also would be staggered if Coleman is sub, so putting him in for Answerth.

Other possible ins Dev, Wilmot, Prior.

Possible outs Ah Chee and McKenna.

I am seeing a lot of people talk about Tunstill from pre-season scrimmages. I had him pegged as an inside mid, but he has been playing wing apparently. Does he have a good tank? Any pace? Would people have Tunstill ahead of Sharp?

With Ashcroft just about a lock it will be interesting to see how many young / inexperienced players we go with. A premiership side usually doesn't have too many. Others in contention seem to be Tunstill, Sharp and Wilmot in terms of players with fewer than 10 games. There's no exact formula but probably playing all of them is one too many? I would think only one of Sharp or Tunstill will make the side anyway, if any.

Overall our experience levels are getting pretty impressive, regulars or near regulars with fewer than 50 games include Coleman on 41, Payne who is 23yo so no baby, Prior on 30, Robertson on 25, Ashcroft on 0. View attachment 1607596

This just confirms the Melbourne media have NFI about our club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Section 5]

This just confirms the Melbourne media have NFI about our club.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

As i mentioned above it is still a good team if you replace one player and swap the TS and some positions.
He is only a journalist and most likely read somewhere that Payne missed a couple of sims and Joyce was in the "A" team.
No Lyons or Dev, he has Ah Chee instead.

How does this look with 1 player Payne added to Ralphs team and take out Joyce.
The TS: Coleman and Answerth swap

FB: Starcevich - Payne -Gardiner
HB: Coleman - Andrews - Rich

C: Berry - Dunkley - Ah Chee
Foll: McInerney - Neale - McCluggage

HF: Bailey - Hipwood - McCarthy
FF: Gunston - Daniher - Cameron

I/C: Rayner (F/M) - Zorko (F/W/M) - Ashcroft (M/W) - McKenna (D)

TS: Answerth

 

[SizeMatters]

wouldnt be so sure payne is a walkup start. hearing good things about joyce

 

[On the quiet]

wouldnt be so sure payne is a walkup start. hearing good things about joyce

Thought I would have a look at Lions player stats, and whilst we know stats are not everything they are a good starting points.
Joyce AFL fantasy points over 6 years 20.7 below average.
Payne AFL fantasy points over 5 years 55.3 above average

Unless Payne has had complications from his tonsils he is playing ahead of Joyce Perhaps Gardiner who is coming back from shoulder surgery and is not expected to be back in full training for another 2 to 3 weeks misses round 1 and Joyce gets a chance.

 

[On the quiet]

As i mentioned above it is still a good team if you replace one player and swap the TS and some positions.
He is only a journalist and most likely read somewhere that Payne missed a couple of sims and Joyce was in the "A" team.
No Lyons or Dev, he has Ah Chee instead.

How does this look with 1 player Payne added to Ralphs team and take out Joyce.
The TS: Coleman and Answerth swap

FB: Starcevich - Payne -Gardiner
HB: Coleman - Andrews - Rich

C: Berry - Dunkley - Ah Chee
Foll: McInerney - Neale - McCluggage

HF: Bailey - Hipwood - McCarthy
FF: Gunston - Daniher - Cameron

I/C: Rayner (F/M) - Zorko (F/W/M) - Ashcroft (M/W) - McKenna (D)

TS: Answerth

yes Coleman is absolutely in as well as Payne100%. Just a Melbourne journalist who probably has none to little inside mail at our club, as you mentioned, saw Payne has been missing match sims etc etc.

 

[Dalions]

yes Coleman is absolutely in as well as Payne100%. Just a Melbourne journalist who probably has none to little inside mail at our club, as you mentioned, saw Payne has been missing match sims etc etc.

Payne will be playing tomorrow.

 

[Hanley]

From Fagan's comments yesterday it seems possible that if Rayner is in defence it's not at the expense of one of our HBFs but actually as the third tall. If Gardiner can play as the second tall (big if against some teams) then playing Rayner instead of Payne/Joyce and allowing another smaller player to come in like Ah Chee or Robertson improves our overall talent level on the park. Any chance this happens particularly again teams with only one forward gorilla?

 

[Nathan Barley]

From Fagan's comments yesterday it seems possible that if Rayner is in defence it's not at the expense of one of our HBFs but actually as the third tall. If Gardiner can play as the second tall (big if against some teams) then playing Rayner instead of Payne/Joyce and allowing another smaller player to come in like Ah Chee or Robertson improves our overall talent level on the park. Any chance this happens particularly again teams with only one forward gorilla?

Maybe more as a McStay replacement in case a key back gets injured in a game and someone needs to go down back

 

[On the quiet]

Maybe more as a McStay replacement in case a key back gets injured in a game and someone needs to go down back

yes I agree. Cam will play forward with stints in the midfield.

 

[Tom14]

From Fagan's comments yesterday it seems possible that if Rayner is in defence it's not at the expense of one of our HBFs but actually as the third tall. If Gardiner can play as the second tall (big if against some teams) then playing Rayner instead of Payne/Joyce and allowing another smaller player to come in like Ah Chee or Robertson improves our overall talent level on the park. Any chance this happens particularly again teams with only one forward gorilla?

Seems like a complete waste if the intent is to have Cam start any games in defence. Even in an emergency situation, I'd be shifting Gunston back.

 

[mpal6]

Seems like a complete waste if the intent is to have Cam start any games in defence. Even in an emergency situation, I'd be shifting Gunston back.

Nah, I like that the coaching staff are trying something different with him. We may uncover something new in terms of mix. Worth persisting if he's showing signs. I'd like to see what Cam does with ball in hand and more time to assess options while coming out of defense.

 

[Tom14]

Nah, I like that the coaching staff are trying something different with him. We may uncover something new in terms of mix. Worth persisting if he's showing signs. I'd like to see what Cam does with ball in hand and more time to assess options while coming out of defense.

It is fine as a january/february pre-season experiment in intraclubs, I am not in favour of it at all in actual games. So not worth being upset about it just yet but if he's still doing it in the practice matches against Syd and the cats I'll be annoyed.

 

[Nathan Barley]

My main issue is that Cam isn't a good forward or midfielder yet. So to expect him to pick up defence seems harsh.

Would rather him focus on being a good forward rather than becoming another Ah Chee

 

[twhowler]

I like the Rayner experiment, think it makes a lot of sense.

The weakest depth we have is KPD. I like Lester but he has barely played AFL since 2021. Joyce has only just joined the squad and is a St Kilda reject. Not saying he can't play but it's a fair caveat on what we can expect from him.

In terms of what it takes away, I do like Rayner getting a few minutes in the midfield and i think he could cause some real headaches deep forward. But it also allows us to go a lot smaller around our big 3 forwards, and increase our forward pressure.

Also can't hurt Rayner in terms of player education.

I do think if Payne is fit he has to start round 1 and be given a chance to lock down a spot as we have some big forwards to counter that we will ideally have Andrews and Gardiner for. But if we do cop some injuries Rayner at least has had a look down back now.

 

[martinson]

I think all the positive and negative comments here re Cam playing in defence have merit.

It'd sort of be funny though if he turned out to be a gun defender. Unlikely I know but things like this have happened before.

It seems a bit unusual though that Fages was saying when he did his knee that that was they year he felt he was going to break out into a gun midfielder.

The makeup of our prospective team has changed a bit for 2023 and maybe the thinking on Cam has as well at least in the shorter term.

 

[Section 5]

If Cam plays defense, we only need to find a 24 plus goal forward from the VFL.

Easy one of these players can take Cam's position.
Ah Chee (career best 12 in 2017), Cockatoo (11), Fullarton (3), Lohmann (0), Blake Coleman (0).

Hopefully it is just a learning curve for Cam.
But just goes to show our defense stock is limited especially if Gardiner misses round 1 or more during the year.
The club retained Lester for a reason to plug some holes when needed.
If he is unable to do that then it was a mistake by the club in resigning him.

 

[martinson]

Remember last year pre season when Fages said there could be a role for Zorks in defence and everyone seemed to rubbish the idea.

A bit of deja vu with what he said re Cam yesterday.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Remember last year pre season when Fages said there could be a role for Zorks in defence and everyone seemed to rubbish the idea.

A bit of deja vu with what he said re Cam yesterday.

Yeah most of didn't think they'd be dumb enough to play him down there and we were vindicated by his performance

We've been hurt a few times by the coaches getting a bit cute with team selection