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First 22 in 2023

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Nathan Barley said:
Yeah most of didn't think they'd be dumb enough to play him down there and we were vindicated by his performance

We've been hurt a few times by the coaches getting a bit cute with team selection
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You seem to think he was really bad Nathan. Plenty don't agree. He got coaches votes in some of the games. Kingy put down our winning games to his delivery from defence and I know how much you respect Kingy's opinion.

Cam has a lot more physical capacity.

It's not the dumbest idea ever put up ,depending on who we have available in defence and what we think we'd be missing if Cam played elsewhere.

Anyway it may not happen
 
martinson said:
Remember last year pre season when Fages said there could be a role for Zorks in defence and everyone seemed to rubbish the idea.

A bit of deja vu with what he said re Cam yesterday.
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Zorko's a much better ball user though and is quicker when fit. Cam's not bad at finding targets but his default setting is to run 10-15m then bomb it long, which is totally fine if it is out of stoppage or in the forward half of the ground. He's not going to be great at spotting up the really tough kicks that we get Rich and Kiddy to do.

I am very interested in finding a tall defender/3rd tall who can intercept and be an offensive weapon. We absolutely don't have the salary cap space but I'd kill to get Himmelberg in FA and have him play the role in defence he did last year. Doubt he'd be keen to play back though, sounds like he's playing up forward for GWS.
 
Tom14 said:
Zorko's a much better ball user though and is quicker when fit. Cam's not bad at finding targets but his default setting is to run 10-15m then bomb it long, which is totally fine if it is out of stoppage or in the forward half of the ground. He's not going to be great at spotting up the really tough kicks that we get Rich and Kiddy to do.

I am very interested in finding a tall defender/3rd tall who can intercept and be an offensive weapon. We absolutely don't have the salary cap space but I'd kill to get Himmelberg in FA and have him play the role in defence he did last year. Doubt he'd be keen to play back though, sounds like he's playing up forward for GWS.
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I agree . It's a bit of a hole .

Cam's hit and miss with his disposal. When it comes off he looks brilliant. I've always thought he had more time than he thought he had and was hoping as he matured his urgency to bomb it would decrease .
 
martinson said:
You seem to think he was really bad Nathan. Plenty don't agree. He got coaches votes in some of the games. Kingy put down our winning games to his delivery from defence and I know how much you respect Kingy's opinion.

Cam has a lot more physical capacity.

It's not the dumbest idea ever put up ,depending on who we have available in defence and what we think we'd be missing if Cam played elsewhere.

Anyway it may not happen
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My recollection was that he only played about 5 games there until Kiddy was fit and 2 were absolutely abysmal and then he started to use it better and cover ground so he wasn't a complete liability defensively. All at the same time that Rich was struggling as well
 

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Nathan Barley said:
My recollection was that he only played about 5 games there until Kiddy was fit and 2 were absolutely abysmal and then he started to use it better and cover ground so he wasn't a complete liability defensively. All at the same time that Rich was struggling as well
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You could be correct with the 5 I thought it was a couple more than that.

Last year was a bit of a mess for our defence with 2 old men struggling with injury trying to hold us up . Kiddy is a star but paradoxically we didn't start losing games until the defence was more settled and Kiddy was pinpointing it. We had a kind fixture for the first 9 games.

It's likely we're struggling to come up with the right mix for round 1 with Gardiner and Payne still to be on the park.
 
I don’t mind at all RE cams defence move this preseason. Coaches have many reasons to move players around. Mostly due to team balance. The club has recognised the inability to generate repeat forward 50 entries and/or locking it inside 50 is an issue. Cam doesn’t provide much outside a target who can knock the ball to ground inside 50. He’s been moved to backline to try something else and to add more strings to his bow.

Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn’t. I can’t recall who it was but didn’t a poster, who had been historically emotionally unstable, go crazy on this board saying we lost it all after we drafted a player who didn’t have a highlights package on afl site lol. The club has much more info at hand than you and I.

That bloke we drafted was Lohman who by all accounts is extremely well regarded by the club. Sometimes the club can take risks and sometimes it works. But they’ll have more information at their disposal than majority of bigfooty posters.

In essence. Just chill people. They are doing these things to move the club forward.
 
Section 5 said:
As i mentioned above it is still a good team if you replace one player and swap the TS and some positions.
He is only a journalist and most likely read somewhere that Payne missed a couple of sims and Joyce was in the "A" team.
No Lyons or Dev, he has Ah Chee instead.

How does this look with 1 player Payne added to Ralphs team and take out Joyce.
The TS: Coleman and Answerth swap

FB: Starcevich - Payne -Gardiner
HB: Coleman - Andrews - Rich

C: Berry - Dunkley - Ah Chee
Foll: McInerney - Neale - McCluggage

HF: Bailey - Hipwood - McCarthy
FF: Gunston - Daniher - Cameron

I/C: Rayner (F/M) - Zorko (F/W/M) - Ashcroft (M/W) - McKenna (D)

TS: Answerth
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Agree having a different opinion doesn't make Ralph an idiot.S few people on here looking to be offended by a Melb journo.
 
I'm wondering if Cam is going to do down back to take over from the Starce role? Starce then pushed up to the midfield where we have struggled to find consistent 2-way runners. Cam as a lockdown defender makes sense to me more than having him playing an attacking defender role when we already have Coleman and Rich or Zorks. I think the one thing we can all agree on though is that Cam needs to be more involved in the play consistently than he currently is. I like the idea and I'm not convinced with the 3 tall forward line Cam can get a good enough opportunities so we can make the most of him. If we had 1 or 2 talls I would say his size and strength is a requirement in our forward line.

On top of that some of our best talent are forwards and this may also be a way to get our most talented players on the park that aren't as versatile as Cam such as Lohmann and co.
 
Fullarton was finally played in defense all game last week. About time i say.
What do we have to lose. He has played defense at times in the VFL.
He should be retained in defense all year to see what he can produce consistently.

Fullarton is clearly the 3rd choice ruck behind Oscar & Fort.
Also, we might see Smith and Lane improve out of sight this year in the VFL.

Even if one of our key forwards goes down, they most likely choose Fort over Fullarton.
Heaven forbid we lose multiple rucks/KPP. If that happens, Fullarton should easily fall back into covering those holes.

I hope they play Fullarton over Rayner and or Joyce in the "A" team today. He won't learn much in the "B" team that cops a flogging.
Fullarton is more than capable of taking intercept marks he just need time to slot into a defense position.
 
morsie said:
Agree having a different opinion doesn't make Ralph an idiot.S few people on here looking to be offended by a Melb journo.
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Yes, these guys have to write about something in the offseason. Just like us BF people get to rubbish them if we so desire.
They get reasonably close to what the BF community think.
Another one listed below today from David Zita and Max Laughton from Fox Sports

They at least had the guts to omit McKenna that other journalists automatically included.
I will play more attention to McKenna today as i see that HB position still up for grabs.
Having said that i think McKenna will play regularly throughout the season once he finds his AFL legs again.
Once again, a few players don't necessarily play in the positions named.

BRISBANE LIONS

B: Daniel Rich, Harris Andrews, Darcy Gardiner

HB: Keidean Coleman, Jack Payne, Brandon Starcevich

C: Zac Bailey, Jarrod Berry, Hugh McCluggage

HF: Cam Rayner, Eric Hipwood, Jack Gunston

F: Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Lincoln McCarthy

FOLL: Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Josh Dunkley

I/C: Will Ashcroft, Jarryd Lyons, Noah Answerth, Dayne Zorko, Deven Robertson

We say: Josh Dunkley, Jack Gunston and Will Ashcroft come straight into the side. Other additions Jaspa Fletcher and Conor McKenna may have to wait a bit longer for their spot in the senior side, but Jarryd Lyons will be up against it to stay in the best 22 if the end of last season was anything to go by. It’s an already relatively well settled side that has added at least three walk-up starters over the off-season. Jack Payne likely gets a look in given Marcus Adams’ concussion concerns continue to hamper him.
 
If Rayner was to go back, I think it might have to be at the expense of Gardiner. Based on last year, Lyons doesn't make the best 22 for me. He's a good user but his speed and defensive running don't make up for that with some of the others we have coming in.
I think Starce could play anywhere from his usual role, to wing and inside mid. I have a huge amount of faith in him. As much as I would love to see him in the midfield, I think we have players who will be at a similar level as mids but nowhere close to Starce as defenders.
Motty might not be first 22 but I love what he bought last year in the finals. He did bring some clearly needed speed, he has had another pre-season plus a couple of big games under his belt now. With his upside I think he would play most weeks.
I'm not sold on Rich. Yes his stats look good, but he takes a lot of our kick in so they're a bit skewed IMO and I think we have better options for our first pick small defenders now. His speed has been an issue on quick transitions.
FBWillmotAndrewsStarcevich
HBRaynerPayneColeman
CBerryNealeRobertson
HFBaileyHipwoodMcCarthy
FFCameronDanniherGunston
FollMcInernyDunkleyMcCluggage
IntAshcroft (F/M)Rich (D)Zorko (F/M/D)Prior (W/D)
SubAh-Chee

There are a lot of guys who are around similar levels in our side. There is a heap of changes that could be made to my list that probably wouldn't have noticeable negative or positive impact. Tunstill sounds like he is making some strides as well.
 

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morsie said:
Agree having a different opinion doesn't make Ralph an idiot.S few people on here looking to be offended by a Melb journo.
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Nah, he’s an idiot. Gets fed his news by club sources, which is fine. Many journos run the same game. So I never discount his “scoops”, especially with the off-field stuff. (although most of his sources are in Victoria). But anyone looking to him for genuine footy analysis are barking up the wrong tree, particularly when it comes to footy in Qld & NSW.
 
morsie said:
True but in NBA it's over 80 games and in EPL it's 38 plus all the tournaments so plenty of time to rest people.
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Of course, in an ideal world you would never need to rest your best players but I believe it is sometimes beneficial to give a guy a rest as the season goes on. Dependent on how they are holding up. Geelong did a great job of it last year. I do think we are behind most of the world when it comes to resting guys. Unfortunately, the game is so physical now that the way we used to just play our best 22 every week may not be the best way to manage a team anymore.
 
Cam Rayner to defense does look a strange addition on paper, especially considering how he has looked like a big point of difference in the middle at times.

He is only 3cm shorter then James Sicily and probably has a better pair of hands for intercept marking, so there is an argument to be made about utilizing some of his weapons in a new way.

I also don't mind the removal of a very attacking forward, to make way for someone more defensively minded to squeeze in. We tend to rest a lot of mids up forward, but could really use another defensive player, (like B Coleman or Lohmann, although I haven't seen them play really) up in that forward line to take the pressure off Cameron and McCarthy, especially when we have 3 talls (Hipwood, Danniher + Fort).

I was going to write how we seem to have a lot of smalls with most likely Rich, Coleman and Starch being there and McKenna, Wilmot or Answerth to take the bench spot. Then I realized I'd probably back Rayner in to be the best HBF out of those three bench options (in 2023) and it suddenly doesn't seem so crazy. He's a great tackler (Ben Brown can attest), good in the aerial contest, good at wrestling contests and I feel like he has the game sense to get in good positions.

I think our backline success is going to more heavily weigh on the forwards / midfielders ability to keep their defensive structure. I haven't noticed Rayner specifically being a liability there, but there might be someone more defensively minded that could work.
 
Section 5 said:
If Cam plays defense, we only need to find a 24 plus goal forward from the VFL.

Easy one of these players can take Cam's position.
Ah Chee (career best 12 in 2017), Cockatoo (11), Fullarton (3), Lohmann (0), Blake Coleman (0).;)

Hopefully it is just a learning curve for Cam.
But just goes to show our defense stock is limited especially if Gardiner misses round 1 or more during the year.
The club retained Lester for a reason to plug some holes when needed.
If he is unable to do that then it was a mistake by the club in resigning him.
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You raise a valid point with regards to Cam playing back, then why have Lester taking up a spot (even Rookie spot) Would rather Arnold been given a rookie spot if we are not going to play Lester in case of emergency. I think Cam is under some pressure this year to be a regular forward, but do believe he could still make a contribution as a forward this year. I strongly believe the experiment down back is to get Cam a little more of a defensive mindset when playing forward. Also the forward and back line coaches swapped this year
 

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I think the other big talking point (besides Rayner) is our current wing structure and how that is playing out over the off season. If we go with 3 of Prior, Tunstill, Ah Chee, Answerth, Robertson, they are all (except maybe Tunstill?) defensively first minded players.

That kinda of discipline to hold the width and be willing to play as two "extra" defenders, could be very valuable going forward. Considering we play so direct anyways, moving guys like Berry / McCluggage / Bailey out there make them not very useful.

Revised potential 23:

Gardiner Andrews Payne
Starce Coleman Rich
Prior Dunkley Robertson
Cameron McCarthy Zorko
Gunston Danniher Hipwood
Mcinery Neale McCluggage

Rayner (Def) Bailey (Fwd / Mid) Berry (Wing) Ashcroft (Mid)

Ah Chee (Sub)

I personally think we need to move past Lyons, as I feel he is too much of a liability defensively.
 
briztoon said:
I’d love to be paid a liveable income to talk/write about footy.

Would at least be able to justify to my family the amount of hours I spend on here writing sh!t.

Wouldn’t give two sh!ts about the haters, as I’d be living a dream job.
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Michael Whiting is living the dream.

Not many people in this life work in a job that they truly love... most live work lives of quiet desperation.
 
Sanchez365 said:
I think the other big talking point (besides Rayner) is our current wing structure and how that is playing out over the off season. If we go with 3 of Prior, Tunstill, Ah Chee, Answerth, Robertson, they are all (except maybe Tunstill?) defensively first minded players.

That kinda of discipline to hold the width and be willing to play as two "extra" defenders, could be very valuable going forward. Considering we play so direct anyways, moving guys like Berry / McCluggage / Bailey out there make them not very useful.

Revised potential 23:

Gardiner Andrews Payne
Starce Coleman Rich
Prior Dunkley Robertson
Cameron McCarthy Zorko
Gunston Danniher Hipwood
Mcinery Neale McCluggage

Rayner (Def) Bailey (Fwd / Mid) Berry (Wing) Ashcroft (Mid)

Ah Chee (Sub)

I personally think we need to move past Lyons, as I feel he is too much of a liability defensively.
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I hope I am wrong, but might be too much to have Ashcroft in the guts all season. Perhaps depending on opposition he moves to the wing on occasions and Berry comes inside against some of the bigger midfielders and or performs a tagging role.
Agree on Devs selection. He is a competitor and can perform a lock down type role as inside mid. But I think coaches might opt for Lyons IF fit.
Can't see Cam playing back permanently, and if he did as the third tall I see Gardiner under some pressure.
Hopefully Gardiners form improves after having shoulder surgery. His best stats across a range of measures date back to 2017, 2018, and gives away more penalties than Payne or Adams.
According to some on here Rich has had a better preseason, so hopefully he is more accountable defensively as he is playing in the backs, if not McKenna
Persist with Payne, been going OK with the few opportunities given. He will make a few mistakes (clangers are less than Gardiner and Adams), but I reckon once he knows how big and fast he is, and with some confidence will be a very solid player for years.
 

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First 22 in 2023

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