Preview 2024 AFL Draft General Discussion

[GC2015]

Is it normal to have so many representatives from Maroochydore? That place is one of the worst places I've been in Australia. Rough as guts out there, so it surprises me that there is so much talent there.

It's got to do with a lot of Brisbane's academy standouts being southerners who have moved to the Sunny Coast. Brisbane isn't far off 10x times bigger than the Sunny Coast in terms of population yet you can see over a quarter of the academy prospects listed there are from the Sunshine Coast. The Sunny Coast is definitely overrepresented in the Lions academy but like I said it's got to do with southerners moving there and generally playing footy at a higher standard than their Brisbane based counterparts. Although that does seem like an abnormally large amount from one particular club...

 

[briztoon]

It's got to do with a lot of Brisbane's academy standouts being southerners who have moved to the Sunny Coast. Brisbane isn't far off 10x times bigger than the Sunny Coast in terms of population yet you can see over a quarter of the academy prospects listed there are from the Sunshine Coast. The Sunny Coast is definitely overrepresented in the Lions academy but like I said it's got to do with southerners moving there and generally playing footy at a higher standard than their Brisbane based counterparts. Although that does seem like an abnormally large amount from one particular club...

Gees, I wonder who else has been saying something similar.

Interesting comment made on our unofficial club podcast this week by a parent of an ex academy kid. Pretty much in line with what has been said by the QAFL posters on BigFooty about our academy.

 

[GC2015]

Gees, I wonder who else has been saying something similar.

Interesting comment made on our unofficial club podcast this week by a parent of an ex academy kid. Pretty much in line with what has been said by the QAFL posters on BigFooty about our academy.

It is concerning though. I'd make the same argument about the best academy prospects GWS has produced have come from the Riverina as opposed to the preferred Sydney origin and even my own club hasn't really produced many high level academy talents from the Gold Coast but it seems like Cairns has been overrepresented in that regard. Although the next few years of academy prospects (Walter, Rogers, Read, Lombard) leads to me to believe that is about to change for my club but I'm sure it's something the AFL looks at because they are investing an enormous amount of money into grassroots footy in Sydney and Brisbane. It just goes to show how hard it is to convince kids in Sydney and Brisbane to stick to footy as there are countless examples of talented junior who did play at a high level and gave up footy for another sport - Patrick Mills (Swans), Josh Green (Giants), Tom Trbojevic (Swans), Kalyn Ponga (Lions), Hamiso Tibuai-Fidow (Suns) etc. Not quite the local penetration the AFL would have been looking for when they introduced the northern academies but it's better than nothing.

 

[briztoon]

It is concerning though. I'd make the same argument about the best academy prospects GWS has produced have come from the Riverina as opposed to the preferred Sydney origin and even my own club hasn't really produced many high level academy talents from the Gold Coast but it seems like Cairns has been overrepresented in that regard. Although the next few years of academy prospects (Walter, Rogers, Read, Lombard) leads to me to believe that is about to change for my club but I'm sure it's something the AFL looks at because they are investing an enormous amount of money into grassroots footy in Sydney and Brisbane. It just goes to show how hard it is to convince kids in Sydney and Brisbane to stick to footy as there are countless examples of talented junior who did play at a high level and gave up footy for another sport - Patrick Mills (Swans), Josh Green (Giants), Tom Trbojevic (Swans), Kalyn Ponga (Lions), Hamiso Tibuai-Fidow (Suns) etc. Not quite the local penetration the AFL would have been looking for when they introduced the northern academies but it's better than nothing.

I wouldn’t have a clue how much money the AFL pumps in to grassroots footy, but my gut feel is it’s sfa.

Normally money flows up the ladder in most sports.

 

[GC2015]

I wouldn’t have a clue how much money the AFL pumps in to grassroots footy, but my gut feel is it’s sfa.

Normally money flows up the ladder in most sports.

I think you'd be surprised to learn how much the AFL is putting into grassroots footy in Queensland and NSW. The article below details the 2023 funding increase that specifically mentions a portion will go towards QLD and NSW community footy programs so clearly it is a priority for them.

AFL announces major increase in community football investment

The AFL Commission has enshrined an increased minimum level of annual funding in community football

www.afl.com.au

The problems are more cultural IMO. Rugby league just has such a strong grip in Sydney/Brisbane and I don't have to tell you what the average league fan thinks of our sport.

 

[briztoon]

I think you'd be surprised to learn how much the AFL is putting into grassroots footy in Queensland and NSW. The article below details the 2023 funding increase that specifically mentions a portion will go towards QLD and NSW community footy programs so clearly it is a priority for them.

AFL announces major increase in community football investment

The AFL Commission has enshrined an increased minimum level of annual funding in community football

www.afl.com.au

The problems are more cultural IMO. Rugby league just has such a strong grip in Sydney/Brisbane and I don't have to tell you what the average league fan thinks of our sport.

Hmmm… but they cut the number of staff employed at QAFL headquarters. Asking fewer people to do the same amount of work is not often a recipe for success.

In my short time following the game, I have found, outside the top tier, the AFL is very good at publishing articles about itself, but when you ask people on the ground (in this case the QLD clubs), things are a fair bit different.

For example, one of the leagues could have had a full home and away season, but it doesn’t, because extending the season by 2 weeks, would mean that the GF would be on the same weekend as the AFL grand final, and QAFL head office wouldn’t have that, because it would mean they couldn’t get down Melbourne for their AFL GF junket weekend, funded out of the QAFL coffers (that’s your grass roots funding in action btw).

 

[briztoon]

It is concerning though. I'd make the same argument about the best academy prospects GWS has produced have come from the Riverina as opposed to the preferred Sydney origin and even my own club hasn't really produced many high level academy talents from the Gold Coast but it seems like Cairns has been overrepresented in that regard. Although the next few years of academy prospects (Walter, Rogers, Read, Lombard) leads to me to believe that is about to change for my club but I'm sure it's something the AFL looks at because they are investing an enormous amount of money into grassroots footy in Sydney and Brisbane. It just goes to show how hard it is to convince kids in Sydney and Brisbane to stick to footy as there are countless examples of talented junior who did play at a high level and gave up footy for another sport - Patrick Mills (Swans), Josh Green (Giants), Tom Trbojevic (Swans), Kalyn Ponga (Lions), Hamiso Tibuai-Fidow (Suns) etc. Not quite the local penetration the AFL would have been looking for when they introduced the northern academies but it's better than nothing.

lol Davo’s post today.

Jed Walter (GCS A) originally from WA where he loved his footy and the WCE, moved as a youngster to the Gold Coast and looked a good prospect last year, seems a focused and determined young lad and could find himself going in the first round if he follows up this year with another good year.

 

[GC2015]

lol Davo’s post today.

I knew Walter had a connection to WA through his father but I wasn't sure when the family moved over. If Walter moved here when he was like 3 years old then that hardly counts as his formative years were spent here but if you look at guys like Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis or Nick Riewoldt who came to Queensland later in life then that's a bigger factor in their decision to pursue footy. I think Rogers is a good example of that as I believe he moved over later in life and had already developed a love for footy in another state. Fairly sure Read and Lombard were both born on the Gold Coast and have been here their whole lives. Lombard in particular did not come from a footballing background with his father being a UFC fighter.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

It's got to do with a lot of Brisbane's academy standouts being southerners who have moved to the Sunny Coast. Brisbane isn't far off 10x times bigger than the Sunny Coast in terms of population yet you can see over a quarter of the academy prospects listed there are from the Sunshine Coast. The Sunny Coast is definitely overrepresented in the Lions academy but like I said it's got to do with southerners moving there and generally playing footy at a higher standard than their Brisbane based counterparts. Although that does seem like an abnormally large amount from one particular club...

Yeah okay that makes a lot of sense, I know of a club in the Western suburbs in Melbourne that was over represented at junior carnivals despite being in one of the worst suburbs in Melbourne (Glen Orden) who were paying juniors - so I’d wondered if something like that had happened!

Not too crazy though, Majak and Jack Fitzpatrick both played for Wyndham Vale and got drafted. Next year my best friend was near being drafted from there too, don’t think they’ve had a draftee since. Guess it just happens!

 

[GC2015]

Yeah okay that makes a lot of sense, I know of a club in the Western suburbs in Melbourne that was over represented at junior carnivals despite being in one of the worst suburbs in Melbourne (Glen Orden) who were paying juniors - so I’d wondered if something like that had happened!

Not too crazy though, Majak and Jack Fitzpatrick both played for Wyndham Vale and got drafted. Next year my best friend was near being drafted from there too, don’t think they’ve had a draftee since. Guess it just happens!

Yeah sometimes you just see an abnormally large amount of talent coming through from the one club in a specific draft class. Especially when it comes to the northern academies, you get a specific club that wins say an U14 premiership and several players end up getting picked to take part in the northern academy off the back of their success the year before. Then they enter the U16s academy program and they suddenly have access to some pretty incredible facilities and resources provided to them by an AFL club and that allows them to stay ahead of another local junior who doesn't have those privileges. I think if you go back and look at a lot of the kids that got drafted out of the northern academies, you'd see most of them entered the academy program around the U13/14 year and took advantage of the entire pathway available to them.

 

[briztoon]

I knew Walter had a connection to WA through his father but I wasn't sure when the family moved over. If Walter moved here when he was like 3 years old then that hardly counts as his formative years were spent here but if you look at guys like Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis or Nick Riewoldt who came to Queensland later in life then that's a bigger factor in their decision to pursue footy. I think Rogers is a good example of that as I believe he moved over later in life and had already developed a love for footy in another state. Fairly sure Read and Lombard were both born on the Gold Coast and have been here their whole lives. Lombard in particular did not come from a footballing background with his father being a UFC fighter.

He would add to the list of players I had made back in 2017. All were either born here, or had moved to QLD before the age of 5, but they came from Vic or WA families, so grew up in an AFL family.

Andrews, Hipwood, Keays, Bowes and Scheer all grew up here, learnt their football here, but they were introduced to the game by their families. Some were coached by their dad in their early years.

Not much has changed in recent years. Keidean and Blake Coleman are from an AFL family, Jasper Fletcher from an AFL family.


I'm not saying all academy kids come from AFL families, but it sure appears most of the more talented kids do, and it's an advantage being in the system from a very early age.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Keays

Who also had the advantage of VFL/AFL relo’s before him.

 

[briztoon]

Who also had the advantage of VFL/AFL relo’s before him.

Yeah, out of Geelong.

 

[Davo-27]

I knew Walter had a connection to WA through his father but I wasn't sure when the family moved over. If Walter moved here when he was like 3 years old then that hardly counts as his formative years were spent here but if you look at guys like Michael Voss, Jason Akermanis or Nick Riewoldt who came to Queensland later in life then that's a bigger factor in their decision to pursue footy. I think Rogers is a good example of that as I believe he moved over later in life and had already developed a love for footy in another state. Fairly sure Read and Lombard were both born on the Gold Coast and have been here their whole lives. Lombard in particular did not come from a footballing background with his father being a UFC fighter.

In the interview I saw, he said when he moved to QLD his parents promised him they would find a team for him to play with, he mentioned u10s so I would guess 9/10 years old, but already had a passion for AFL.

 

[GC2015]

He would add to the list of players I had made back in 2017. All were either born here, or had moved to QLD before the age of 5, but they came from Vic or WA families, so grew up in an AFL family.

Andrews, Hipwood, Keays, Bowes and Scheer all grew up here, learnt their football here, but they were introduced to the game by their families. Some were coached by their dad in their early years.

Not much has changed in recent years. Keidean and Blake Coleman are from an AFL family, Jasper Fletcher from an AFL family.

I'm not saying all academy kids come from AFL families, but it sure appears most of the more talented kids do, and it's an advantage being in the system from a very early age.

So what are you getting at with this list? That Queenslanders who previously had no family connections to the sport are less likely to make it to the AFL level? I can list a few like Kurt Tippett (born into a family from Sydney, grew up playing basketball, converted at 17), Tom Hickey (father player pro rugby league, Tom played junior rugby league and volleyball growing up and converted to footy at 17), Mabior Chol (Born in Sudan and moved to Brisbane at 8, grew up playing soccer/basketball, converted to footy at 13) that go against that theory but I'm also not entirely sure of the purpose of the 'footy family' list. Is it really that surprising to see the kids not from a footy family background/a kid who takes up the sport later in life are less likely to make it at the top level when compared to the others? I would have thought that was to be expected...

Also, not all 'footy family' players who make it to the AFL are from southern states. Rory Thompson's father was a Hall of Famer from Southport, Brayden Crossley's father was also a Hall of Famer from Southport and your very own Will Ashcroft comes from a Queensland footy family as well (Marcus also happens to be a Southport Hall of Famer). I don't think this 'footy family' theory is quite a simple as you're making it out to be.

In the interview I saw, he said when he moved to QLD his parents promised him they would find a team for him to play with, he mentioned u10s so I would guess 9/10 years old, but already had a passion for AFL.

Fair enough. I think you'd find most kids (particularly boys) who move around the age of 10 to Queensland or NSW from Victoria, SA or WA would have at least tried Aussie rules at some point in their first 9-10 years. I'm not entirely sure what that proves or disproves but it's really not surprising given it's the number 1 sport in those states. Kieran Jack's story is far more interesting because his father was a very accomplished rugby league player and Kieran chose to pursue footy instead. I'd probably make the same argument about Leonardo Lombard who could have pursued MMA like his father but has instead chosen to take footy seriously. So if we (the Suns) end up drafting Walter, Rogers, Read and Lombard then that would mean we'd have two of these 'footy family' draftees and two non-footy family draftees. Pretty decent outcome for a Queensland team I would have thought.

 

[briztoon]

So what are you getting at with this list? That Queenslanders who previously had no family connections to the sport are less likely to make it to the AFL level? I can list a few like Kurt Tippett (born into a family from Sydney, grew up playing basketball, converted at 17), Tom Hickey (father player pro rugby league, Tom played junior rugby league and volleyball growing up and converted to footy at 17), Mabior Chol (Born in Sudan and moved to Brisbane at 8, grew up playing soccer/basketball, converted to footy at 13) that go against that theory but I'm also not entirely sure of the purpose of the 'footy family' list. Is it really that surprising to see the kids not from a footy family background/a kid who takes up the sport later in life are less likely to make it at the top level when compared to the others? I would have thought that was to be expected...

Also, not all 'footy family' players who make it to the AFL are from southern states. Rory Thompson's father was a Hall of Famer from Southport, Brayden Crossley's father was also a Hall of Famer from Southport and your very own Will Ashcroft comes from a Queensland footy family as well (Marcus also happens to be a Southport Hall of Famer). I don't think this 'footy family' theory is quite a simple as you're making it out to be.


Fair enough. I think you'd find most kids (particularly boys) who move around the age of 10 to Queensland or NSW from Victoria, SA or WA would have at least tried Aussie rules at some point in their first 9-10 years. I'm not entirely sure what that proves or disproves but it's really not surprising given it's the number 1 sport in those states. Kieran Jack's story is far more interesting because his father was a very accomplished rugby league player and Kieran chose to pursue footy instead. I'd probably make the same argument about Leonardo Lombard who could have pursued MMA like his father but has instead chosen to take footy seriously. So if we (the Suns) end up drafting Walter, Rogers, Read and Lombard then that would mean we'd have two of these 'footy family' draftees and two non-footy family draftees. Pretty decent outcome for a Queensland team I would have thought.

I wasn’t getting at anything.

I was seeing how well the QLD academies were doing at bringing non football kids through to the top level.

And yes, quite a few of the QLD kids who made it or were close, came from entrenched local footy families.

This wasn’t a Gold Coast v Lions thing I was looking at.

It was, how well were the academies doing at bringing elite talents from “outside” the game to the top level.

My conclusion (particularly for the Lions) was pretty sh!thouse.

 

[Sphynx]

I wouldn’t have a clue how much money the AFL pumps in to grassroots footy, but my gut feel is it’s sfa.

Normally money flows up the ladder in most sports.

The entire idea of the academy system model is that the clubs fund their academies - i.e you get out what you put in.

Or at least that's how Sydney fans have defended it for years.

Given you get your hands on these kids from 12 years of age, most of blame for quality needs to rest with you.

You're academies have even been added to a nationalised u/18 comp, putting further strain on what amounts to Victorian junior clubs.

The AFL can't do more than what they currently are to have helped your academies.

 

[Sphynx]

On more relevant discussion:

3 more FS names to keep an eye on, all making the Falcons squad as underagers:

However, River Stevens, Alfie Wojcinski and Noah Caracella are looking to make a name for themselves after being named in the Geelong Falcons’ under-18 squad for the 2023 Victorian Talent League season.

The trio has been selected as bottom-age players and will become eligible to be drafted in 2024.

Stevens is the son of North Melbourne great Anthony and is a left-footer like his dad.

“He’s really silky,” Falcons coach Paul Corrigan said of the half-forward.

“He’s really come into his own when we’ve started to do some match sim scenarios.

“He’s shown how classy he can be. He’s got a good turning circle and a real knack of getting away from his opponent and finding space.

Wojcinski is the son of triple-premiership-winning Cats speedster David and has been training as a winger/half-forward.

“He sees the game really well; he uses the ball really well, too,” Corrigan said.

“We’ll look at developing him through those two areas.

“He’s got the ability to carry the ball – a bit like his dad – on the wing, and he’s quite crafty when he does go forward.

Caracella’s dad Blake was a premiership winner with Essendon and the Brisbane Lions before finishing his career at Collingwood.

However, the Bombers were the only club he managed 100 games for to allow for father-son selection.

“He’s a rangy type … a bit like his dad,” Corrigan said. “He can play high and deep forward.

“He’s got good game awareness, and you don’t see that sometimes in bottom agers.

“His ability to get to space, (and) put himself in really good positions – both in offence and defence – across the ground has been really special through pre-season.

“He’s really good in the air as well.”

 

[briztoon]

The entire idea of the academy system model is that the clubs fund their academies - i.e you get out what you put in.

Or at least that's how Sydney fans have defended it for years.

Given you get your hands on these kids from 12 years of age, most of blame for quality needs to rest with you.

You're academies have even been added to a nationalised u/18 comp, putting further strain on what amounts to Victorian junior clubs.

The AFL can't do more than what they currently are to have helped your academies.

Erm, I’m not sure what say to this, other than it appears you’ve added two completely separate discussions together, then started to have a tanty and finished by smacking your head against a wall.

 

[GC2015]

I wasn’t getting at anything.

I was seeing how well the QLD academies were doing at bringing non football kids through to the top level.

And yes, quite a few of the QLD kids who made it or were close, came from entrenched local footy families.

This wasn’t a Gold Coast v Lions thing I was looking at.

It was, how well were the academies doing at bringing elite talents from “outside” the game to the top level.

My conclusion (particularly for the Lions) was pretty sh!thouse.

Fair enough. I think we can agree on this one based on the available evidence to date.

On more relevant discussion:

3 more FS names to keep an eye on, all making the Falcons squad as underagers:

Noah Caracella is only F/S eligible for Essendon, right?

 

[briztoon]

Fair enough. I think we can agree on this one based on the available evidence to date.


Noah Caracella is only F/S eligible for Essendon, right?

The article he quoted does say that.

 

[philthy05]

It is concerning though. I'd make the same argument about the best academy prospects GWS has produced have come from the Riverina as opposed to the preferred Sydney origin and even my own club hasn't really produced many high level academy talents from the Gold Coast but it seems like Cairns has been overrepresented in that regard. Although the next few years of academy prospects (Walter, Rogers, Read, Lombard) leads to me to believe that is about to change for my club but I'm sure it's something the AFL looks at because they are investing an enormous amount of money into grassroots footy in Sydney and Brisbane. It just goes to show how hard it is to convince kids in Sydney and Brisbane to stick to footy as there are countless examples of talented junior who did play at a high level and gave up footy for another sport - Patrick Mills (Swans), Josh Green (Giants), Tom Trbojevic (Swans), Kalyn Ponga (Lions), Hamiso Tibuai-Fidow (Suns) etc. Not quite the local penetration the AFL would have been looking for when they introduced the northern academies but it's better than nothing.

Mills and green did not give up footy to chase basketball, they were basketballers first and foremost, and were always headed that way.

 

[GC2015]

Mills and green did not give up footy to chase basketball, they were basketballers first and foremost, and were always headed that way.

Poor wording on my behalf. They played junior footy at a high level, along with other sports, and elected to not continue with it in favour of a different sport that they were already playing. Although in Josh Green's case he has stated publicly that if he had stayed in Australia he thinks he would have stuck with footy and given up basketball because he enjoyed footy more. He had already accepted an academy offer from GWS before he moved to the US so I tend to believe he was telling the truth. Certainly in Patty Mills' case you could say he had a genuine option to pursue footy through the Swans academy and chose to not once the AIS scholarship was offered (thanks Pendlebury).

 

[Tivva29]

Anyone in the neighbourhood, Sandringham Dragons are playing Oakleigh Chargers in practice matches Friday night at RSEA Park Mooorabbin. Probables @5.15pm. Possibles @ 7.15pm

 

[lionshine]

Jayden Nguyen with 22 disposals in the Coates League today. Surprised he hasn’t been talked among the better prospects for next year. Looked great every time I have seen him play.