Training Training Reports and Updates

[Gone Critical]

With Beau, I think there's an element of lacking self belief.
He has the tools, so it's about developing them.
Fly is the ideal person to do that.
The snippet in that article about Fly telling McStay that he's the big banana now instead of third in line after Daniher & Hipwood is the type of thing I mean.

Maybe I am too much of a Grinch but thats a classic puff piece by Michael Gleeson. Fly has cultivated this the "Ted Lasso" image on purpose I think. I dont love that part of it.

I am cynical but when I read the below from that article I just think bulltish.

The recruitment of Dan McStay from Brisbane​

It’s early pre-season. A ball is kicked long into Collingwood’s forward line. Dan McStay runs to the ball, looks around and hesitates.
McRae calls out: “Dan that’s your ball”. McStay looks up at him. “Oh, I ...” “No Dan that’s YOUR ball.”
It was a penny drop moment for McStay: he was no longer the third wheel to Lions forwards Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood. It illustrated what McRae says should make McStay a better player at the Magpies. “We’ve got optimism he will,” he said. “You can go through targets inside-50 and he’s not going to get as much as Daniher and Hipwood. But he will for us. So we’re going to go through him a lot more and he’s going to get more opportunities.

“What potentially others hadn’t seen in Dan is that we will move the ball differently to Brisbane, which allows him to show a lot more of his strengths and cover the ground which is something we’re excited for.”

Sorry the "pennydrop" moment is to fairytalish for me. The lightbulb came on? I think not. McStay is a 160 game veteran. He has played a lot of footy and very little of it as "3rd wheel". Joe Daniher has only been a Brissie for 2 seasons. Hipwood and Daniher have only played about 27 games together in that time. Even in those 2 seasons McStay wasnt 3rd wheel about 30% of the games he played and before 2021 he wasnt 3rd wheel at all.

Truth is most of McStays time as a forward at Brissie was very similar in set up to what he will encounter at the Pies.

Brisbane Hipwood main forward, medium production, McStay 2nd forward workmanlike production, Martin/McInerney ruck combo where one or the other was often forward

Magpies Mihochek main forward, medium production, McStay ???????, Cox/Cameron ruck combo where one or the oter is often forward.

I love the McStay pick up. Only criticism is 5 years is too long and its most likely he finishes his career struggling to play in the 1sts. But why does the coach want to raise expectations that he is going to be a greater, more productive player with us. Its not likely. Matching his Brisbane output is plenty to expect and a really good result.

 

[Bianconeri]

But why does the coach want to raise expectations that he is going to be a greater, more productive player with us

If the coach is raising our expectations of him why is it so hard to believe his output could improve?

 

[jonbe54]

Maybe I am too much of a Grinch but thats a classic puff piece by Michael Gleeson. Fly has cultivated this the "Ted Lasso" image on purpose I think. I dont love that part of it.

I am cynical but when I read the below from that article I just think bulltish.

The recruitment of Dan McStay from Brisbane​

It’s early pre-season. A ball is kicked long into Collingwood’s forward line. Dan McStay runs to the ball, looks around and hesitates.
McRae calls out: “Dan that’s your ball”. McStay looks up at him. “Oh, I ...” “No Dan that’s YOUR ball.”
It was a penny drop moment for McStay: he was no longer the third wheel to Lions forwards Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood. It illustrated what McRae says should make McStay a better player at the Magpies. “We’ve got optimism he will,” he said. “You can go through targets inside-50 and he’s not going to get as much as Daniher and Hipwood. But he will for us. So we’re going to go through him a lot more and he’s going to get more opportunities.

“What potentially others hadn’t seen in Dan is that we will move the ball differently to Brisbane, which allows him to show a lot more of his strengths and cover the ground which is something we’re excited for.”

Sorry the "pennydrop" moment is to fairytalish for me. The lightbulb came on? I think not. McStay is a 160 game veteran. He has played a lot of footy and very little of it as "3rd wheel". Joe Daniher has only been a Brissie for 2 seasons. Hipwood and Daniher have only played about 27 games together in that time. Even in those 2 seasons McStay wasnt 3rd wheel about 30% of the games he played and before 2021 he wasnt 3rd wheel at all.

Truth is most of McStays time as a forward at Brissie was very similar in set up to what he will encounter at the Pies.

Brisbane Hipwood main forward, medium production, McStay 2nd forward workmanlike production, Martin/McInerney ruck combo where one or the other was often forward

Magpies Mihochek main forward, medium production, McStay ???????, Cox/Cameron ruck combo where one or the oter is often forward.

I love the McStay pick up. Only criticism is 5 years is too long and its most likely he finishes his career struggling to play in the 1sts. But why does the coach want to raise expectations that he is going to be a greater, more productive player with us. Its not likely. Matching his Brisbane output is plenty to expect and a really good result.

Watch this space.

The results may be interesting.

 

[Gone Critical]

If the coach is raising our expectations of him why is it so hard to believe his output could improve?

Because KPF production is the hardest gig in footy. If you have a pretty good resume of being a good but not great KPF over a good number of seasons its a very big ask to suddenly raise that. If he does great but to expect it , without even a kick in anger yet, gives undue expectation to the supporter base and cranks up the pressure on McStay

Also why the 3rd wheel stuff when Fly should know very little of McStays career has been spent as 3rd wheel on the forwardline

 

[Go Woods]

Gee whiz

Mcreery is a gun and i tell ya what if anyone should wear 42 it is him

Maynard is the other I would love to see running around with the 42 on his back.

 

[Jen2310]

Maynard is the other I would love to see running around with the 42 on his back.

Or reserved for if we get Millane's nephew. Prob the only instance his family will release the number.

 

[sr36]

Maybe I am too much of a Grinch but thats a classic puff piece by Michael Gleeson. Fly has cultivated this the "Ted Lasso" image on purpose I think. I dont love that part of it.

I am cynical but when I read the below from that article I just think bulltish.

The recruitment of Dan McStay from Brisbane​

It’s early pre-season. A ball is kicked long into Collingwood’s forward line. Dan McStay runs to the ball, looks around and hesitates.
McRae calls out: “Dan that’s your ball”. McStay looks up at him. “Oh, I ...” “No Dan that’s YOUR ball.”
It was a penny drop moment for McStay: he was no longer the third wheel to Lions forwards Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood. It illustrated what McRae says should make McStay a better player at the Magpies. “We’ve got optimism he will,” he said. “You can go through targets inside-50 and he’s not going to get as much as Daniher and Hipwood. But he will for us. So we’re going to go through him a lot more and he’s going to get more opportunities.

“What potentially others hadn’t seen in Dan is that we will move the ball differently to Brisbane, which allows him to show a lot more of his strengths and cover the ground which is something we’re excited for.”

Sorry the "pennydrop" moment is to fairytalish for me. The lightbulb came on? I think not. McStay is a 160 game veteran. He has played a lot of footy and very little of it as "3rd wheel". Joe Daniher has only been a Brissie for 2 seasons. Hipwood and Daniher have only played about 27 games together in that time. Even in those 2 seasons McStay wasnt 3rd wheel about 30% of the games he played and before 2021 he wasnt 3rd wheel at all.

Truth is most of McStays time as a forward at Brissie was very similar in set up to what he will encounter at the Pies.

Brisbane Hipwood main forward, medium production, McStay 2nd forward workmanlike production, Martin/McInerney ruck combo where one or the other was often forward

Magpies Mihochek main forward, medium production, McStay ???????, Cox/Cameron ruck combo where one or the oter is often forward.

I love the McStay pick up. Only criticism is 5 years is too long and its most likely he finishes his career struggling to play in the 1sts. But why does the coach want to raise expectations that he is going to be a greater, more productive player with us. Its not likely. Matching his Brisbane output is plenty to expect and a really good result.

I agree with your take on the article. But I disagree overall. To me the whole first, second and third banana theory is bollocks. The reality is that players have strengths and certain roles highlight their strengths, or don't. Hawkins and j Cameron work well together, because Hawkins is a big powerful unit designed to stand in the hotspot, but Jezza is most suited to picking and choosing when he flies for the footy and when he stays down. To me, McStay is more suited to a hotspot role. He rarely has that role at Brissy, but that's where he'll play for us, so I'm expecting him to do better for us than he did at Brissy.

 

[TradeDraft]

I’m not wedded to the theory that mccreery is a must-pick. He’s definitely on the cusp of being outside our best 22. Time will tell but I agree with others… he needs to get the pill more.

Then we might have no Forward Pressure

 

[TradeDraft]

Maybe I am too much of a Grinch but thats a classic puff piece by Michael Gleeson. Fly has cultivated this the "Ted Lasso" image on purpose I think. I dont love that part of it.

I am cynical but when I read the below from that article I just think bulltish.

The recruitment of Dan McStay from Brisbane​

It’s early pre-season. A ball is kicked long into Collingwood’s forward line. Dan McStay runs to the ball, looks around and hesitates.
McRae calls out: “Dan that’s your ball”. McStay looks up at him. “Oh, I ...” “No Dan that’s YOUR ball.”
It was a penny drop moment for McStay: he was no longer the third wheel to Lions forwards Joe Daniher and Eric Hipwood. It illustrated what McRae says should make McStay a better player at the Magpies. “We’ve got optimism he will,” he said. “You can go through targets inside-50 and he’s not going to get as much as Daniher and Hipwood. But he will for us. So we’re going to go through him a lot more and he’s going to get more opportunities.

“What potentially others hadn’t seen in Dan is that we will move the ball differently to Brisbane, which allows him to show a lot more of his strengths and cover the ground which is something we’re excited for.”

Sorry the "pennydrop" moment is to fairytalish for me. The lightbulb came on? I think not. McStay is a 160 game veteran. He has played a lot of footy and very little of it as "3rd wheel". Joe Daniher has only been a Brissie for 2 seasons. Hipwood and Daniher have only played about 27 games together in that time. Even in those 2 seasons McStay wasnt 3rd wheel about 30% of the games he played and before 2021 he wasnt 3rd wheel at all.

Truth is most of McStays time as a forward at Brissie was very similar in set up to what he will encounter at the Pies.

Brisbane Hipwood main forward, medium production, McStay 2nd forward workmanlike production, Martin/McInerney ruck combo where one or the other was often forward

Magpies Mihochek main forward, medium production, McStay ???????, Cox/Cameron ruck combo where one or the oter is often forward.

I love the McStay pick up. Only criticism is 5 years is too long and its most likely he finishes his career struggling to play in the 1sts. But why does the coach want to raise expectations that he is going to be a greater, more productive player with us. Its not likely. Matching his Brisbane output is plenty to expect and a really good result.

Well you need to pay Tad Overs to Get Free Agents to the Club as they would stay at Orginal Club for Same Contract Offer

 

[Gone Critical]

I agree with your take on the article. But I disagree overall. To me the whole first, second and third banana theory is bollocks. The reality is that players have strengths and certain roles highlight their strengths, or don't. Hawkins and j Cameron work well together, because Hawkins is a big powerful unit designed to stand in the hotspot, but Jezza is most suited to picking and choosing when he flies for the footy and when he stays down. To me, McStay is more suited to a hotspot role. He rarely has that role at Brissy, but that's where he'll play for us, so I'm expecting him to do better for us than he did at Brissy.

Agree with the 3rd wheel , its not my creation and I don't like it much. I dont see the hotspot player though either. I thought the Hawks practice match was the 1st time we saw Brodie and Dan together and it was like what I think it will be. Both spent time deep, shared duties, similar players with Brody a little more productive. Thats what i expect to see this season, maybe a 40/30 split goalwise between them as an A grade expectation. McStay in seasons ahead will probably go ahead as Brody likely to drop off 1st. They can be a good 2-3 season combo hopefully which will give time to groom the next

 

[stormskye]

Because KPF production is the hardest gig in footy. If you have a pretty good resume of being a good but not great KPF over a good number of seasons its a very big ask to suddenly raise that. If he does great but to expect it , without even a kick in anger yet, gives undue expectation to the supporter base and cranks up the pressure on McStay

Also why the 3rd wheel stuff when Fly should know very little of McStays career has been spent as 3rd wheel on the forwardline

We’ve got an elite marking KPP who’s strong and can play forward, defence or pinch hit in the ruck. For 5 years at 600k I think he’s well worth it, even more so considering behind Moore the cupboards are empty.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I think he's a shoe in due to Ginni and Lippa being out, but when Ginni's back the selection squeeze gets tight

No it doesn’t.

They are absolutely not “like for like”.

Why is everyone comparing them?!?!

I’m really at a loss as to why everyone thinks gini is more important to us than Beau?
….please don’t quote stats and goals…

 

[sr36]

Agree with the 3rd wheel , its not my creation and I don't like it much. I dont see the hotspot player though either. I thought the Hawks practice match was the 1st time we saw Brodie and Dan together and it was like what I think it will be. Both spent time deep, shared duties, similar players with Brody a little more productive. Thats what i expect to see this season, maybe a 40/30 split goalwise between them as an A grade expectation. McStay in seasons ahead will probably go ahead as Brody likely to drop off 1st. They can be a good 2-3 season combo hopefully which will give time to groom the next

My view is basically that McStay is built to present at the footy, and he had few opportunities to do that from inside 50 at Brissy, whereas we know that Checkers does his best work hitting up and then turning back into forward 50.

 

[sr36]

No it doesn’t.

They are absolutely not “like for like”.

Why is everyone comparing them?!?!

I’m really at a loss as to why everyone thinks gini is more important to us than Beau?
….please don’t quote stats and goals…

It's not a comparison. It's just that we can only pick 22. If Ginni comes in to play his role - noone will play it particularly similarly, someone has to be squeezed out

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

It's not a comparison. It's just that we can only pick 22. Ginni in to play his role and someone has to be squeezed out.

Out of curiosity, What role does gini play?
Why is it comparable to Mccreery?

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Right now….Adams/tich are playing the role Gini does….
Which may explain why they are giving him mid minutes at training…

But I’m backing Adams/tich over gini at the moment.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Right now….Adams/tich are playing the role Gini does….
Which may explain why they are giving him mid minutes at training…

But I’m backing Adams/tich over gini at the moment.

Different role V (u) idiot.
Gini a forward and Adams/Titch inside midfielders.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Different role V (u) idiot.
Gini a forward and Adams/Titch inside midfielders.

Ummm…ok!!
Let’s runs with that….

 

[sr36]

Out of curiosity, What role does gini play?
Why is it comparable to Mccreery?

I'm not comparing the roles. But basically if you're left with 23 players you want to select, you could pretty comfortably slot Adams/Reef/Elliott into McCreerys spot.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I'm not comparing the roles. But basically if you're left with 23 players you want to select, you could pretty comfortably slot Adams/Reef/Elliott into McCreerys spot.

Or just play Mccreery instead of ginivan and keep:

• your best fwd (Elliot)
• a versatile inside mid/fwd (adams)
• a promising lead up agile third talk (reef).

Also…let’s ignore the fact that gini brings nothing the above mentioned players do….

So what does gini bring that “demands” a spot?
I’m seriously asking.

I think Gini has elite footy IQ and decision making (can’t teach that).
But with the way we play, I’m just asking why he’s a lock!!?

Edit: I don’t want everyone to think I hate gini. I don’t. He has some serious skills. But his offensive output dropped significantly after the rule change and his defensive aspect cost us goals everywhere!
I just prefer beau due to the fact he turned defense into goals without a stat….and did it all year.

 

[jmac70]

Or just play Mccreery instead of ginivan and keep:

• your best fwd (Elliot)
• a versatile inside mid/fwd (adams)
• a promising lead up agile third talk (reef).

Also…let’s ignore the fact that gini brings nothing the above mentioned players do….

So what does gini bring that “demands” a spot?
I’m seriously asking.

I think Gini has elite footy IQ and decision making (can’t teach that).
But with the way we play, I’m just asking why he’s a lock!!?

Edit: I don’t want everyone to think I hate gini. I don’t. He has some serious skills. But his offensive output dropped significantly after the rule change and his defensive aspect cost us goals everywhere!
I just prefer beau due to the fact he turned defense into goals without a stat….and did it all year.

40 goals

 

[sr36]

Or just play Mccreery instead of ginivan and keep:

• your best fwd (Elliot)
• a versatile inside mid/fwd (adams)
• a promising lead up agile third talk (reef).

Also…let’s ignore the fact that gini brings nothing the above mentioned players do….

So what does gini bring that “demands” a spot?
I’m seriously asking.

I think Gini has elite footy IQ and decision making (can’t teach that).
But with the way we play, I’m just asking why he’s a lock!!?

Ginni brings goals from situations that other players wouldn't convert into goals. That's why I view him as a lock. But yes it comes at a price in terms of less opportunity created due to his lack of pace resulting in less pressure and therefore less opportunity than another blokes would give.

So yes, Ginni, McCreery and Hill are all weapons in their own way, but all have weaknesses. I'm looking forward to them all playing together, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't a regular. And you can make a case for any of them missing out or making the team.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

40 goals

Can I ask this….

how many of the “40” goals kicked were because he was just legit awesome?

how many were kicked because he was the recipient of upfield defence?

Also…do you know how many goals he gave away due to ineffectual defence?
Or do we ignore that stat?

Just wanting a balanced view….

 

[stormskye]

Can I ask this….

how many of the “40” goals kicked were because he was just legit awesome?

how many were kicked because he was the recipient of upfield defence?

Also…do you know how many goals he gave away due to ineffectual defence?
Or do we ignore that stat?

Just wanting a balanced view….

How many other forwards on our list have and are capable of kicking 40+?

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Ginni brings goals from situations that other players wouldn't convert into goals. That's why I view him as a lock. But yes it comes at a price in terms of less opportunity created due to his lack of pace resulting in less pressure and therefore less opportunity than another blokes would give.

So yes, Ginni, McCreery and Hill are all weapons in their own way, but all have weaknesses. I'm looking forward to them all playing together, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't a regular. And you can make a case for any of them missing out or making the team.

Thanks SR! Appreciate the articulate response. It’s a valid view!!

My issue with Gini is that Hill provides a balance between what he provides and Mccreery.
Given no one does what Beau does….and the fact Adams seems to be playing fwd more….

When I look at the structure of the team that gives us the best look…Gini just doesn’t have the strings the others do….time will tell. But he’s not the lock everyone thinks he is without performances behind him (like last year)….