Ruckman top 10

[GWT6]

Farmer v White, played in totally different eras.

The VFL & WAFL are now a shadow of what they were.

Deceptive no, Farmer was very good.

The WAFL was always a second-tier comp. A premiership or best and fairest there is no way similar to one at the top level. Not diminishing Farmers greatness, he proved that in the VFL when he finally was able to step up, pity got blocked from playing there eartlier.

 

[nineteen eighty]

This is coming from an old Ruck for what it's worth...

Farmer, Nicholls and Simon Madden are the standouts for mine. The first 2 were magnificent as rucks...their records speak for themselves. I have only seen highlights though so am going by what I have seen from video and online.

Simon Madden is the best I have seen...easily. He was a fantastic mark, excellent tap ruckman (his technique was sensational the way he leaped and tapped) and on top of that, he kicked almost 600 goals. 600 goals as a ruck...that is obscene!! To the poster who said he is overrated, you in my humble opinion know zero about the game. That is probably one of the worst posts I have seen on BF for the entire time I have been on here.

The lack of Gary Dempsey mentions is disturbing. 300+ games, Hall of Fame, Brownlow Medal, 7 BnFs, Team of the Century for two clubs and a decade of dominance.

Still #2 all time for marks, #5 all time for hitouts (5 of the top 6 all played in the last decade) and #2 all time for Brownlow votes.

He had a 40 disposal game as a ruckman when it was rare for rovers, let alone rucks.

Spot on about Dempsey. I would take him above Gawn. Sure Gawn moves better but different training would have Dempsey at Gawn's level easily. Gawn is still very good and the best going around of the current rucks.

Dean Cox was good but so was Stynes...they both were very similiar.

NicNat is a very good tap ruck and clearance player but his marking is poor for a ruck. No way he gets on a Best of alltime list.

Did I mention Simon Madden kicked almost 600 goals as an elite ruckman?!

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Madden brothers were both very lucky to be at their peak before data analytics came in. Dinosaurs getting a lot of taps but very one-dimensional.

Don't know how you can be a "one dimensional tap merchant" and manage to kick 575 goals?

One of, if not the best, ruckman at going forward and having an impact.

Was also pretty decent around the ground. Finished third in the Brownlow one year and got 25 votes another year.

In 1984 for example, he was the 7th highest ball winner in the premiership side (Dean Cox, by comparison, was 9th in their flag year and 6th in his highest disposal season and is recognised as the best 'around the ground' ruckman of all time).

Not to mention of course, that if they played the modern game with modern data analytics, they would train with modern training styles, be coached to play the modern way and very likely excel, just as they did in what was asked of them at the time (win taps, go forward, take marks, kick goals).

 

[windyhill]

GWT6 , you’ve had a mare mate !

 

[GWT6]

GWT6 , you’ve had a mare mate !

Just trying to have a bit of fun with the Essendon fans.

 

[Shueygod]

Nik Nat in the top 10 of all time? lol

And Goldstein an apology double lol

Almost like Scott Wynd wasn't a brownlow medalist

Naitanuis been better than Gawn when fit.

 

[smasha]

Did not see him but Neville Crowe owns this thread.
Dominated in the 50's then everyone else followed after him.

A Richmond legend!

Then Patto,Green,Roberts and the General Mark Lee!

 

[Robroy22]

This is coming from an old Ruck for what it's worth...

Farmer, Nicholls and Simon Madden are the standouts for mine.

True enough but you're selling quite a few of the old fellas short.

• Len Thompson won a Brownlow as a ruckman and was easily in the same category as Farmer and Nicholls. Some rate "Thommo" as the first of the truly mobile giant ruckmen (Farmer was after all at 6'2 merely an oversized ruck-rover).
• Carl Ditterich could play a bit as well (he wasn't JUST a hitman) and his physical style was quite confronting to lots of the taller types.
• Mark Lee was another ruck who ran straight and hit hard...and won plenty of premierships to boot.
• Barry Round, Graham Teasdale, Graham Moss, even Percy Jones were very effective ruckmen.

The first 2 were magnificent as rucks...their records speak for themselves. I have only seen highlights though so am going by what I have seen from video and online.

Simon Madden is the best I have seen...easily. He was a fantastic mark, excellent tap ruckman (his technique was sensational the way he leaped and tapped) and on top of that, he kicked almost 600 goals. 600 goals as a ruck...that is obscene!! To the poster who said he is overrated, you in my humble opinion know zero about the game. That is probably one of the worst posts I have seen on BF for the entire time I have been on here.

The fact that Madden kicked that many goals should actually show you that he didn't play as many minutes as you think as an actual ruckman. His early career he played second fiddle to Graham Jenkin and Graham Moss for 3-4 years, then Kevin Sheedy preferred to use physical centre bounce and around the ground rucks (Peter Keenan) and leave Madden as a front half ruckman alongside Max Crow and a young Roger Merrett. By 1980 his brother Justin had arrived and Sheeds preferred again to leave Simon Madden as a proxy full forward/ front half ruckman.

It wasn't until the arrival of Paul Salmon in 1983 (and the departure of his brother Justin to Carlton) that Sheedy finally let Simon Madden play as a full time ruckman. His results over the next few years (and the fact that the Bombers won two flags in that period) probably established in everyone's minds that Madden was in fact a ruckman but as you can see, 80% of his career to that stage had been played as a full forward.

In the latter half of the 80's when Simon Madden was getting on a bit Sheedy again preferred using him as a quasi forward, sharing the ruck duties with Paul Salmon who'd returned after his ACL surgery. Sheedy always a proponent of large/physical rucks brought in a young John Barnes and then Peter Somerville. An aside with Sheedy was that he always had these tall physical players playing Key positions (Max Crow, Kevin Walsh, Ron Andrews, Paul Van Der Haar, Roger Merrett....so he always had plenty of talls to contest any ball ups anywhere on the ground, thus reducing the need for a full time ruckman as most other teams featured at the time. Sheedy was very big on his team being flexible and able to play multiple positions. Simon Madden may have appeared on the team sheet in the ruckman's spot but he very rarely played more than 30-40% of a game there.

So in essence 600 goals for a ruckman??? it's incredulous, but its also a pretty big lie.

Spot on about Dempsey. I would take him above Gawn. Sure Gawn moves better but different training would have Dempsey at Gawn's level easily. Gawn is still very good and the best going around of the current rucks.

Dempsey was a magnificent defensive ruckman. He would easily best Gawn as a pack marking ruckman and his ability to recover following being badly burned in the '66 Lara Bushfires demonstrated his mental toughness. He rarely pushed forward, but his ability to assist his defenders with timely marks was legendary.

Dean Cox was good but so was Stynes...they both were very similiar.

I agree but they were both pretty poor copies of Peter Moore. Moore was so dominant around the ground and at centre clearances that he had to have a new rule brought in to counter him. When he and Gary Dempsey wrestled their way through the 1979 PF the VFL administrators hated the look so much that they brought in the "centre line" for the 1980 season. Moore loved it actually because he had such a great leap, but it seriously depleted the careers of the "body ruckmen"....the likes of Nicholls, Farmer and Dempsey would never be seen again.
Peter Moore won 2 Brownlow's as a freewheeling ruckman. Cox and Stynes (who actually learned his craft under Moore at Melbourne) were his contemporaries.

NicNat is a very good tap ruck and clearance player but his marking is poor for a ruck. No way he gets on a Best of alltime list.

Agreed

Did I mention Simon Madden kicked almost 600 goals as an elite ruckman?!

Yeah you did, but he was largely a full forward so there is no real argument there!

 

[My Tilly]

This is coming from an old Ruck for what it's worth...

Farmer, Nicholls and Simon Madden are the standouts for mine. The first 2 were magnificent as rucks...their records speak for themselves. I have only seen highlights though so am going by what I have seen from video and online.

Simon Madden is the best I have seen...easily. He was a fantastic mark, excellent tap ruckman (his technique was sensational the way he leaped and tapped) and on top of that, he kicked almost 600 goals. 600 goals as a ruck...that is obscene!! To the poster who said he is overrated, you in my humble opinion know zero about the game. That is probably one of the worst posts I have seen on BF for the entire time I have been on here.



Spot on about Dempsey. I would take him above Gawn. Sure Gawn moves better but different training would have Dempsey at Gawn's level easily. Gawn is still very good and the best going around of the current rucks.

Dean Cox was good but so was Stynes...they both were very similiar.

NicNat is a very good tap ruck and clearance player but his marking is poor for a ruck. No way he gets on a Best of alltime list.

Did I mention Simon Madden kicked almost 600 goals as an elite ruckman?!

Where would Peter Moore rank?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I only have seen about half of these guys play consistently but this is my judgement of what I have heard and will be met with some criticism.

Left out Adam Goodes because of his utility playing career.

10- Aaron Sandilands
Huge man with great tap work, not amazing around the ground but based on pure ruck ability is a top 10 ruckman of all time.

9- Nic Natanui
A human highlight reel some people will say a top 5 but I don’t think he has enough runs on the board, in terms of talent close to the most dominant at his best though.

8- Jim Stynes
A great of the game that’s legend lives on, winning a Brownlow medal after swapping codes a great feat, never missed games and tough as nails.

7- John Nicholls
Didn’t get to see him play but his legend is huge and have heard countless stories about big John.

6- Justin Madden
When people describe a ruckman they seem to describe him. His honour board is amazing and held many ruck records for years. A huge impact on the game.

5- Simon Madden
An attacking ruckman who was dangerous when resting in positions and dangerous when in the ruck, had a great combination in his side that lead to a lot of success.

4- Graham Moss
A legend in Western Australia and had a huge impact in the VFL as well, Brownlow medalist multiple best and fairests and premierships throughout his career.

3- Polly Farmer
A LEGEND of the game maybe smaller than most now but he had a tunnel and a state funeral, there is not many bigger names in football history.

2- Max Gawn
His dominance over the last 6-8 years has been amazing, a running machine who is a true leader. One of the best I’ve seen no doubt.

1- Dean Cox
The best I have seen he changed the position amazing footskills and could pick up 20 possesions in the regular, part of a great era of football for West Coast as well.

Honourable mention- Scott wynd Todd Goldstein Luke Darcy Brad Ottens






.

Thanks for this. Decent list but it's sad that someone as dominant as Gary Dempsey seems to get forgotten so much - when he should be top 3 (not just by you I mean - took several pages before he even got a mention).

As I posted in a "Most Underated 22" thread last year:

The other one I've mentioned in a similar thread a few years ago...(please note some stats would differ by now)..

Gary Dempsey is the big one for me.

Plenty on this site will say who? Others will recognise the name as a good ruckman.

However, he should be rated as one of the greatest 5 rucks in the history of VFL/AFL football IMO. People always mention Polly Farmer, Simon Madden and Dean Cox but Dempsey is right up there with them (arguably ahead) and in the best 20-30 players of all time!

A few facts on Dempsey:

• Hall of Famer
• Played 322 games (a lot for a 70's ruckman!)
• Won 7! best and fairests, including 5 straight.
• Team of the Century at Footscray AND North Melbourne
• Most Brownlow votes of all time (and miles ahead of any other ruckman or players from his era). He won one, finished 2nd another time and was top 10 thirteen times!
• Held the record for most marks ever (2906 at nearly 9 per game) for 30 years. Even now, Nick Riewoldt is the only player within 400 marks of Dempsey despite Dempsey playing in an era without lots of possessions and uncontested marks around the ground. If contested marks were a stat in his time, he would be hundreds in front of everyone else ever. The closest player from Dempsey's era (or earlier) to his number of marks is Barry Round, who took 1855 marks, more than 1000 marks less than Dempsey.
• Dempsey also held the record for most hitouts for about 30 years. These days, stoppage and hit out numbers have ballooned exponentially but Dempsey still sits 3rd all time. Len Thompson (another great) is the closest to him from his era and he is nearly 2000 hitouts behind!

Hugely underrated nowdays.

List should be revised to include him. Nic Nat seem consensus to go out - which is fair enough. I can name 20 ruckman in the long history of our great game that would be comfortably ahead.

 

[00Stinger]

Naitanuis been better than Gawn when fit.

Stop it.......

 

[Shueygod]

Stop it.......

21 and 20 he was the better player, give me clearances of cheap possessions that end up being turnovers anyway

 

[Lingsface]

Thanks for this. Decent list but it's sad that someone as dominant as Gary Dempsey seems to get forgotten so much - when he should be top 3 (not just by you I mean - took several pages before he even got a mention).

As I posted in a "Most Underated 22" thread last year:



List should be revised to include him. Nic Nat seem consensus to go out - which is fair enough. I can name 20 ruckman in the long history of our great game that would be comfortably ahead.

List has been edited Dempsey in Nic Nat out.

 

[Robroy22]

List has been edited Dempsey in Nic Nat out.

Now take a look at Moore. For goodness sakes he showed Cox and Stynes how to play....and Sandilands???? Seriously...get real, the bloke was a mountain but he moved like one as well!

 

[Robroy22]

Barry Round is way better than Sandilands

 

[Lingsface]

Sandilands stays for me best tap ruckman of modern times. Players needed a bib some days.

 

[Toump Ass]

Naitanuis been better than Gawn when fit.

That's the problem though isn't it? He's never been fit. Spent the vast majority of his career a bit too porky for the demands of professional sport. Gawn quit darts and has been a superstar ever since; last time I was in Perth I saw Natinui hiding behind a bakery ramming pastries down his throat. If only Nicnat could mark the ball as often as he orders a free large Hungry Jack Whopper meal, he'd be a star. But he lacked self-control and ate too much and didn't exercise enough. It's like me saying I've been better than Wayne Carey when I've been fit. It could be true, but I've never actually not been a fat chain-smoking pisshead so we'll never know.

 

[00Stinger]

21 and 20 he was the better player, give me clearances of cheap possessions that end up being turnovers anyway

2021 Premiership captain Max Gawn

 

[bzparkes]

Shouldn't have any- just AFL marketing influence. A ruckman that averages less than 2 marks per game is really poor at football. He runs around like a dog chasing a car and the commentators get all excited, but he is just not a good footballer, can't read the game at all.

This post right here just proves how utterly clueless some posters are on this board..

 

[Shueygod]

That's the problem though isn't it? He's never been fit. Spent the vast majority of his career a bit too porky for the demands of professional sport. Gawn quit darts and has been a superstar ever since; last time I was in Perth I saw Natinui hiding behind a bakery ramming pastries down his throat. If only Nicnat could mark the ball as often as he orders a free large Hungry Jack Whopper meal, he'd be a star. But he lacked self-control and ate too much and didn't exercise enough. It's like me saying I've been better than Wayne Carey when I've been fit. It could be true, but I've never actually not been a fat chain-smoking pisshead so we'll never know.

By fit I meant not injured, Gawn gets meaningless possessions because he genuinely kicks like s**t.

Naitanui wins the ball at the contest and is a far better tap ruckman.

2021 Premiership captain Max Gawn

The game big Gawny got dropped by the smallest man in the league? Pathetic.

 

[Mr Sasquatch]

Obviously Courtenay Dempsey

Courtenay Dempsey

Age

36

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

258.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

 

[bzparkes]

2021 Premiership captain Max Gawn

Who had to go out of the ruck in lieu of 19yo Luke Jackson, so that Melbourne could actually get control of the game.

Real inspiring stuff..

 

[Robroy22]

Sandilands stays for me best tap ruckman of modern times. Players needed a bib some days.

He's not in the top two of recent times. Gawn and Grundy will go way past Sandi's HO stats....and that's all he ever did.

 

[Shueygod]

The perceived importance on marks for ruckman is ridiculous, do we talk about the amount of marks Wines and Oliver get?

Does Gawn cop flack for not being able to win clearances as well as Naitanui?

When Gawns usually kicking it straight back from the marks he’s taking what’s the point anyway.

 

[The 747]

The perceived importance on marks for ruckman is ridiculous, do we talk about the amount of marks Wines and Oliver get?

Naitanui does Gawn cop flack for not being able to win the ball as well as Naitanui?

When Gawns usually kicking it straight back from these marks what’s the point anyway.

Gawn>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nik Nat.

Maybe different without injury but it is what is is.