List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[macky99]

We can crucify our small forward brigade ad nauseam, but until our team lower their eyes when making forward entries the smalls will never have the requisite amount of opportunities to show that they can be better. The team consistently stuck it on Charlie and Harry's heads all night to the point where our forwards stopped making runs ahead of the ball because they knew they would be burnt by their teammates.

A better connection between forward/mid will make our current whipping boys look much better.

That may be true to some extent, but clearly evident Owies is not good enough at this level, & time is running out for Martin, Durdin & Motlop have upside, but we need that Sheezel & Humphrey type to add another dimension to our front half.

 

[BlueTongue]

Martin, at best should be the sub. Outside of that, he is done. Shown very little across his time with us.

The disappointment is that trade week was Voss opportunity to get creative and find players to fit the plan.

Blake Acres, and done. Was poor.

Its hilarious now to sit back, and say we are missing x y z on the list. What were they thinking post that collingwood game. List clearly needed work, and same old injury prone or mentally weakplayers needed to be culled or moved on.

Ie Fisher again, ineffectual. He is the half fwd flanker we need to step up. Should have been shipped to West Coast.

I'm more keen to see these guys replaced by our draftees who already seem to have the desire, will and want.

Voss should make a statement and drop the mentally weak. The group needs to realise the time is now. Our window for finals and a challenge is right now

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Probably a bit Harsh on Acres fitting into a new team, but the rest I totally agree with. Axe needs to fall on Martin & Fisher for (Cuningham & Durdin if fit - nothing the injuries list)

 

[Stamos]

We can crucify our small forward brigade ad nauseam, but until our team lower their eyes when making forward entries the smalls will never have the requisite amount of opportunities to show that they can be better. The team consistently stuck it on Charlie and Harry's heads all night to the point where our forwards stopped making runs ahead of the ball because they knew they would be burnt by their teammates.

A better connection between forward/mid will make our current whipping boys look much better.

I think that the bigger criticism of our smalls is much more about their lack of pressure on Richmond's defenders, and not getting to the fall of the ball. Neither are related to a lack of lowering our eyes.
And us putting it on Charlie and Harry's heads is even more reason to be critical of our smalls not doing their jobs.

 

[Arr0w]

Martin, at best should be the sub. Outside of that, he is done. Shown very little across his time with us.

At best he is a game changer. Can we start looking in a forward direction rather what has transpired

The disappointment is that trade week was Voss opportunity to get creative and find players to fit the plan.

Blake Acres, and done. Was poor.

Voss can only share what he believes he needs, then it's up to Austin to target players. Although, we can't just wave a magic wand and acquire any player we want

Its hilarious now to sit back, and say we are missing x y z on the list. What were they thinking post that collingwood game. List clearly needed work, and same old injury prone or mentally weakplayers needed to be culled or moved on.

I agree that the transition on injury prone, should have started by now, but it still comes down to contract status and capital gain.

Also, could you draft a list of mentally weak players, from most severe to mild

Ie Fisher again, ineffectual. He is the half fwd flanker we need to step up. Should have been shipped to West Coast.

Shipped off after having his best season? Do we then complain that we have a lack of development and poor culture?

I'm more keen to see these guys replaced by our draftees who already seem to have the desire, will and want.

I am more keen on playing the best "team", without a thought of age, reputation or draft position

Voss should make a statement and drop the mentally weak. The group needs to realise the time is now. Our window for finals and a challenge is right now

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Once you draft that, mentally weak player list, it should make it easier for Voss. Perhaps a similar list for Hardwick, given they too failed to win

 

[Wickzki]

I don't agree that we're mentally weak. Huge difference between not knowing how to win and being mentally weak.

We choked last year because we didn't know how to seal the deal and we lost our heads too many times and didn't stick with the fundamentals. We did the same on Thursday night and walked away with a draw instead.

A mentally weak team would've taken every excuse that the injury list gave us last year and absolutely capitulated. We didn't do that.

We need to play smarter both individually and as a collective unit.

Calling the team mentally weak is a cop out. There may be individuals that are but it's not endemic of the team.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Why can’t we having collingwoods mentality. What are we missing?

Carlton have not prioritised good disposal with its recruiting, before last draft. You can not teach it. Clean disposal is the cornerstone of confidence at AFL level

 

[Michael Jezz]

Not much has changed for me over the rebuild, need more foot speed and better users of the pill

....and we need to do it through the draft, using Austin's penchant for late picks. We don't have the early picks, anymore Kinda need to face the fact that this group is 10 players short of the 30 required to win a premiership

 

[gbatman]

I think we are onto it but list management should be around skilled outside players who have intent to go into contests, chase, tackle but also have skills. Take a lot from Collingwood's list build.

We're painfully slow and too man of our outside types don't chase, tackle and compete hard enough.

Cowan, Hollands. Steps forward for us. More guys like Durdin and Saad will take us further. Fast guys who are fierce competitors.

Hope Binns comes on. Need a few more quicker youngsters to come on.

Get back into looking for small fast forwards of the above description.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Mids with a point of difference-speed, spread
Mid fwds with great defensive skills

 

[Arr0w]

....and we need to do it through the draft, using Austin's penchant for late picks. We don't have the early picks, anymore Kinda need to face the fact that this group is 10 players short of the 30 required to win a premiership

We are not 10 players short

 

[Kruezing]

We are not 10 players short

If you include the injury prone he’s probably not far off Arrow …

 

[macky99]

....and we need to do it through the draft, using Austin's penchant for late picks. We don't have the early picks, anymore Kinda need to face the fact that this group is 10 players short of the 30 required to win a premiership

Again that is reactive ridiculous commentary.
We certainly have a few gaps 2-3 players addressing areas of weakness is a more accurate number.
We drafted some kids in the last draft, expect improvement in them in the next 1-2 years.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

We are not 10 players short

I'd say we're 3-4 in our 22 and 2-3 in VFL as depth. Definitely not 10

 

[Wickzki]

If you include the injury prone he’s probably not far off Arrow …

IF - and it's a big one - you could get the following 23 players fit, healthy and firing for the finals I have a belief that if they learned how to finish games that this team would give a premiership a genuine shake.

B: Newman - Weitering - Young
HB: Docherty - McGovern - Saad
C: Acres - Cripps - Cerra
HF: Motlop - McKay - Kennedy
F: De Koning - Curnow - Durdin
Ru: Pittonet - Hewett - Walsh
IC: E Curnow - Martin - Fisher - Cowan
Sub; Hollands

There's quite a few maybes not listed

We have the cattle if they learn to finish

 

[Beyond Blue]

Again that is reactive ridiculous commentary.
We certainly have a few gaps 2-3 players addressing areas of weakness is a more accurate number.
We drafted some kids in the last draft, expect improvement in them in the next 1-2 years.

It’s the injury prone players I think he’s referring to as you need a squad of at least 30 players to win a flag. We start every season with Marchy, Cunners, Philp and Boyd unavailable. Then after 4-7 games we add the likes of Gov, Martin, Williams and Pitto to that list. It’s why the likes of Ed, Owies, Plowman, Newnes and Levi have played so many games for us over this painful rebuild.

The reliance on injury prone has to stop this seasons end. We could have got rid of 2 of them last year but instead we rolled the dice with Marchy and Cunners and now we are paying the price this year, not mention we could have to turn over as many as 10 players which is not ideal. What we have done with picking and retaining injury prone without any track record of being capable of rehabilitating them is a very big reason why we are in year 10 of a rebuild without a finals appearance.

 

[Beyond Blue]

IF - and it's a big one - you could get the following 23 players fit, healthy and firing for the finals I have a belief that if they learned how to finish games that this team would give a premiership a genuine shake.

B: Newman - Weitering - Young
HB: Docherty - McGovern - Saad
C: Acres - Cripps - Cerra
HF: Motlop - McKay - Kennedy
F: De Koning - Curnow - Durdin
Ru: Pittonet - Hewett - Walsh
IC: E Curnow - Martin - Fisher - Cowan
Sub; Hollands

There's quite a few maybes not listed

We have the cattle if they learn to finish

Sorry Wickzki but it’s too big an IF for me. It’s cost us too much already and looks set to cost us this season.

Every year we hold onto this false hope of these blokes being available I fear we are losing years we could be competing for a flag.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

IF - and it's a big one - you could get the following 23 players fit, healthy and firing for the finals I have a belief that if they learned how to finish games that this team would give a premiership a genuine shake.

B: Newman - Weitering - Young
HB: Docherty - McGovern - Saad
C: Acres - Cripps - Cerra
HF: Motlop - McKay - Kennedy
F: De Koning - Curnow - Durdin
Ru: Pittonet - Hewett - Walsh
IC: E Curnow - Martin - Fisher - Cowan
Sub; Hollands

There's quite a few maybes not listed

We have the cattle if they learn to finish

Genuinely don't reckon they'd get close. Would be relying on pure luck for all the flakes in the team to have good games in sync.

 

[Wickzki]

Sorry Wickzki but it’s too big an IF for me. It’s cost us too much already and looks set to cost us this season.

Every year we hold onto this false hope of these blokes being available I fear we are losing years we could be competing for a flag.

. Fair call. Think the mini restructure we get at the end of this year will produce 17.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

For those interested - Would love to hear others go through our 22 and put in bold who we think the flaws are/need to be upgraded

Green is could be improved but mostly due to being youth.

I'll go first with what I think is our B22:

FB: Newman Weitering Mcgovern
HB: Williams Young Saad
C: Acres Cripps Hollands
HF: Fisher Mckay Martin
FF: Motlop Curnow Durdin
F: TDK Walsh Hewett

I/C: Pitto/JSOS Kennedy Cerra Docherty
Sub: Cuningham/Marchbank

Newman - Only due to age, likely start declining over the next couple of years but if he can maintain this level think he's more than adequate.
Hollands - Young, He'll improve and I have a lot of faith he'll end up a very good player but for now he's an area of improvement.
Fisher - Not fast, not penetrating and disappears for large periods of time. Many better options on the market.
Martin - Clearly had a fling with Katy Perry which inspired her to write the song 'Hot n Cold'. Seen enough, adios.
Motlop - Same as Hollands
TDK - Pretty much same as Hollands. He's young and has a lot of upside but for now still somewhat of a weak spot.
Pitto - Injury prone and very limited as a footballer, I like what he brings but his lack of flexibility causes issues with balance re TDK and JSOS as to whether we run 2 rucks or not.
JSOS - Not great in the air, doesn't hit the scoreboard frequently, pretty slow in general. Tries his guts out and makes good decisions but a quality 3rd option would make an incredible difference to our forward set up. Jack simply isn't that.
Cuningham/Marchy - Permanently injured so who knows what to make of them. I think both are quality and fit our needs, but we may never see it happen.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

We are not 10 players short

More like 8. It's still going to be a big cull from here on.

 

[Arr0w]

More like 8. It's still going to be a big cull from here on.

Wouldn't call it a cull, standard 8-9 players

But just for shits and giggles, add Daniel Rioli and say Liam Baker types to our list and the balance looks totally different

 

[bradfisher14]

Wouldn't call it a cull, standard 8-9 players

But just for shits and giggles, add Daniel Rioli and say Liam Baker types to our list and the balance looks totally different

Agreed. Even if we just added Walsh, Boyd, Williams and Cuningham to the team on Thursday it would’ve looked better.

 

[Michael Jezz]

We are not 10 players short

Age or ability....here are 10 need to be replaced to win a premiership
Played rnd 1
Owies
Obrien
Mcgovern- age, injuries
Docherty age
Martin- age injuries
Ed Curnow- age
Newman- age

List support players
Plowman
Fogarty
Philp

Without considering age or injury profile. Optimistic on below
Saad, Cripps- age
Cunningham- injury
Marchbank- injury

 

[Jeremias]

28
29
28
33
30

Someone tell Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

that you can't win a flag with players that old in your side.

What an absurd post.

 

[Stamos]

People are overestimating the quality needed across the 22 (-30) needed to win a flag.
Geelong were dominant last year. Rhys Stanley

1

Rhys Stanley

Age

35

Ht

200cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

27.6

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.5

3star

CL

5.0

5star

HO

21.5

5star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

33.0

5star

was their ruck FFS.
And in round 5 last year they lost to Hawthorn.

What's important is to play as a team, everybody doing their role, and confidence within that. We've got the talent.
There's also the growth that occurs across the 23 games of the season.