News Clarkson to step away from football indefinitely

‘Heavy toll’: Roos blindsided by Clarkson decision to step away

North Melbourne are unsure how long Alastair Clarkson will need away from the game, but the club’s football boss Todd Viney, a friend of the master coach, is confident he will not be lost to the sport.

www.theage.com.au

 

[KM00]

Goodness me. What a pickle. Hopefully Clarkson and his family get through this and they are left in some peace. Ditto the former players and families involved in the process (Not at an Inquiry) initiated by Hawthorn.

For all the hooha I am not aware of crimes being alleged. I suspect conversations as often happens on sensitive issues between people with different backgrounds can go awry. People party to the conversation may come away with quite different interpretations of what happened and impute different motivations.

Here is a scenario-

A player may have confided to the Coach or staff that there was trouble on the home front and complicating this their partner was pregnant. The Coach may then have asked what player wants to do and then made sure the player was aware that an abortion could be an option among other options. The Coach is not saying the partner must have an abortion but is ensuring the family are informed on their options.

The Coach may not have been as sensitive as a family counsellor but felt they did their best.

The player may have heard a different message. Their partner may heard a different message again.

Humans are great at screw ups, particularly on sensitive issues and especially with cross cultural communication and where there are power imbalances involved.

Clarko is saying he stood down for personal and family mental and physical health reasons and that MUST be taken at face value. Posters imputing victimhood or guilt are doing a disservice.

FWIW there are First Nations outfits everywhere that offer terrific cross cultural training. It helps.

This is how I see it. Context is everything, and no doubt the way the players received/heard things, and the way the coaches said it were interpreted very differently by each party, and both probably altered over time.

I feel sorry for all involved actually.

The players - they did not start this. They did not actually go to Hawthorn and make a complaint. Hawthorn decided to do a review into alleged poor behaviour (in order to do better?) and hired a consultant who the players would talk to. That consultant spoke to a lot of prior aboriginal players, some of whom agreed to speak on the condition of anonimity. They were not making accusations that they wanted brought against anyone ... just responding to the inquiry and review.

The Club received this report - but didnt take it further with Clarkson or Fagan ... if the players were not prepared to come forward and make accusations (fair enough - whether it happened the way they tell it, the way Clarkson/Fagan tell it or anywhere in between, they have been traumatised by it and dont want to go back into it) ...

Then the media get involved, the AFL get involved and its a complete s***fest. There are no winners here. Clarkson and Fagan cannot be brought to account for any poor behaviour if the complainants are not willing to go forward - and they werent the originators and have no real interest in doing so ... so Clarkson and Fagan cannot actually defend themselves again accusations that arent actually being made.

Everyone loses here.

I do blame the ABC. This should never have been published. Making allegations against people when the accusers are not willing to make the accusations is just asking for a bad outcome for everyone.

 

[garlic munchers]

Clearly most rational people have huge concerns over the process that has been going on and it just boggles the mind, that supposedly professional organisations can keep getting things so wrong.

But then when profit is the only tangible KPI this is what happens (i.e. see banks).

So perturbed that I decided against the usual "what is it with the Victorian clubs and scandals" jibe.

 

[010203]

I think this is good for football, he clearly has issues and is not fit to coach after what he has allegedly done at Hawthorn.

EFA.

 

[zeggie]

So many drop kicks don't seem to understand half the issue is Clarkson & Fagan vs Hawks. This whole sad saga screams to me that Hawks are looking to throw everyone else no longer their club under the bus, and vice versa. This all comes even before the subject matter of the actual investigation and who is at fault.

 

[rye]

I think there's a possibility of this, and I must admit, I do find it very interesting that:

a) the defendants want the medical records before they'll comment, and
b) the accusers do not want to provide them.

This suggests to me that there is something within those records that could hold sway in a delicate case such as this. If any of the trauma that has been alleged, is actually true and evident via psych reports, club reports, even documentation of the alleged offence, I could understand why the accusers would not want to hand this over - as then there's a possibility it could be used against them and leaked into the public sphere.

It is very odd to me though, that you won't allow yourself to be interviewed before you have access to those records. I understand being prepared, but surely your recollection shouldn't be guided by the defendant's medical reports?

Seems like the lawyers are driving a lot of it, tbh.

if it was to go to court the discovery process would make it mandatory for the parties to share these documents

then i think things would get really interesting

 

[Danw0w]

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? I'm not citing his innocence within this investigation, I'm citing his innocence in his contribution to the delays that he claims are affecting his mental health.

He's complaining about the investigation stalling, but he's contributing to the investigation stalling. I have no problem with the presumption of innocence, but this isn't the AFL that is holding up the process - it's solely the accusers and the defendants, and their legal representation, that are the reasons for the delays.

We literally have no idea what's happened yet. I haven't commented on that since last year, and won't until we have evidence from a legal ruling/mediation etc.

Fair enough. Sorry I just skimmed through the post.

I can understand both sides I guess. Clarkson wants the information so he can understand what he's being accused of and defend himself the best he can. The accusers want to maintain their privacy.

I believe that Clarkson is well within his right to stall if his legal team believes he is a better chance of defending himself.

As for his mental health, well an accusation like this would **** your mental anyway. I don't blame him for stepping down, but the worst thing for his mental health would be to get rushed into making a statement that doesn't give him the best chance at defending himself.

 

[PAFC_FOREVER]

What a joke. Obviously something changed behind the scenes. Clarko isn't a quitter.

 

[zeggie]

You reckon? OK.

Guess you don't understand the basic legal fundamentals of duty of care, and employer employee responsibilities. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't post so much on this topic.

 

[RooDave]

Think you’re dreamin’ here to be honest mate

You dont win multiple premierships in the afl by being a pea heart. He's a clever man ol Clarko he'll get through this.

 

[Chief]

Guess you don't understand the basic legal fundamentals of duty of care, and employer employee responsibilities. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't post so much on this topic.

LOL!

 

[Gavin Excell]

So many drop kicks don't seem to understand half the issue is Clarkson & Fagan vs Hawks. This whole sad saga screams to me that Hawks are looking to throw everyone else no longer their club under the bus, and vice versa. This all comes even before the subject matter of the actual investigation and who is at fault.

Hence the reason Clarkson had a very clear crack at Hawks last week

 

[Messenger]

Hawks could scapegoat Clarkson. Why should he attend? No love lost between them, and his appearance at mediation is on behalf of the Hawks. Not himself.

No, his appearance is his own. To discuss claims relating to his own behaviour.

 

[Danw0w]

You, me and anyone else can presume and think what we like, we aren’t handing down the judgement or doing the investigation or privy to every fact.

We can all have opinions on what we think.

But how can you be of the opinion that he is guilty? We have no evidence, no concrete idea of what happened. The man has yet to defend himself.

The only thing to go by are accusations, and we dont even know who are making these accusations.

Any "opinion" is just a guess.

 

[TheSunGod]

Dude just needs to move to Queensland. No one cares about footy up here. Media will leave him alone.

 

[rand corp]

Poorly handled by the AFL, and poorly handled by the club involved. Going to cost $$$$, careers and reputations in the end.

 

[Messenger]

Striking that we’ve done a remarkable job centring Clarkson in this whole situation.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

EFA.

Keep hanging on to that dream.

 

[zeggie]

Bit aggressive.

My argument is pretty simple. In a world where physical newspaper sales are plummeting, and Murdoch news sites are paywalled, it’s silly to claim they have real influence in Australia.

Oh my sweet summer child. You have much to learn. Murdoch's grasp extends far and wide. You should watch/listen/read to the Senate Inquiry into Media Diversity. Murdoch spread lies far and wide the past 3 years alone and a huge amount of people accepted those lies hook line and sinker.

 

[Digby Morrell]

Things going well down at North

Beat you

 

[zeggie]

No, his appearance is his own. To discuss claims relating to his own behaviour.

Catching them like flies.

Guess you also don't understand the basic legal fundamentals of duty of care, and employer employee responsibilities. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't post so much on this topic.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Poorly handled by the AFL, and poorly handled by the club involved. Going to cost $$$$, careers and reputations in the end.

Not much sympathy for North from me, as I personally feel they should have been relocated or wound up years ago; but they can't take a trick and are really starting to get the stench of a Fitzroy about them now! (Send them to Tassie FFS.)

You personally felt they should have relocated or "wound up"?

FFS

 

[zeggie]

It is one of those situations where I wish Clarko, North, the past and present players under Hawthorn's duty of care the best

FTFY

 

[Underarm]

Goodness me. What a pickle. Hopefully Clarkson and his family get through this and they are left in some peace. Ditto the former players and families involved in the process (Not at an Inquiry) initiated by Hawthorn.

For all the hooha I am not aware of crimes being alleged. I suspect conversations as often happens on sensitive issues between people with different backgrounds can go awry. People party to the conversation may come away with quite different interpretations of what happened and impute different motivations.

Here is a scenario-

A player may have confided to the Coach or staff that there was trouble on the home front and complicating this their partner was pregnant. The Coach may then have asked what player wants to do and then made sure the player was aware that an abortion could be an option among other options. The Coach is not saying the partner must have an abortion but is ensuring the family are informed on their options.

The Coach may not have been as sensitive as a family counsellor but felt they did their best.

The player may have heard a different message. Their partner may heard a different message again.

Humans are great at screw ups, particularly on sensitive issues and especially with cross cultural communication and where there are power imbalances involved.

Clarko is saying he stood down for personal and family mental and physical health reasons and that MUST be taken at face value. Posters imputing victimhood or guilt are doing a disservice.

FWIW there are First Nations outfits everywhere that offer terrific cross cultural training. It helps.

There's definitely elements of that. But the initial article has multiple accounts of these misunderstandings shows that Clarko ans rhe clubs had serious issues when confronting these issues.

But people are desperate for a 'guilty' or 'innocent' verdict when the final answer will be much more nuanced than that.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Oh yeah, that’s working.

Yeah it has been working for 154 years now.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

The AFL / McLoughlin were the last major sporting body to back the Voice, and that's in a leage with 20% Indigenous players.
They didn't defend Adam Goodes until it was all over.
McLoughlin has family links to the National Party and friends in the Liberal party.
Now he's cooked up this debacle hoping he could sweep it all under the carpet and fix it with 'mediation' lol.
Clarkson and Fagan should have been stood down straight away because of the serious nature of the alligations and there should have been a swift inquirey and punishments handed out.