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List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

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TDK, Darcy Parish and Bailey Williams would all add a lot. Given the cash we have coming out of contract and the money we already had ear marked for de goey it could be possible to get all 3.

Webster. Howard. Wilkie.
Williams. Battle. Sinclair.
Wood. Parish. Wang.
Hill. Hammer. Pou
Owens. King. Gresham

Marshall, Steele, Crouch

Int from in no particular order: Stocker, TDK, Butler, Ross, Windhager, Byrne's, Billings, Bytel, Clark, Membrey, Sharman, Paton.
 
JimmyR20 said:
TDK, Darcy Parish and Bailey Williams would all add a lot. Given the cash we have coming out of contract and the money we already had ear marked for de goey it could be possible to get all 3.

Webster. Howard. Wilkie.
Williams. Battle. Sinclair.
Wood. Parish. Wang.
Hill. Hammer. Pou
Owens. King. Gresham

Marshall, Steele, Crouch

Int from in no particular order: Stocker, TDK, Butler, Ross, Windhager, Byrne's, Billings, Bytel, Clark, Membrey, Sharman, Paton.
Click to expand...

Ben McKay would be a good get too, I think.
 
CursingFijian said:
Ben McKay would be a good get too, I think.
Click to expand...
Coming around to this idea too.
Even though he’s been perennially injured, who knows what Norths fitness staff are like. James Brayshaw described it as a country level club.
It also robs someone like Port who would be looking at him at the same time.
 

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Dard Ball Get said:
Coming around to this idea too.
Even though he’s been perennially injured, who knows what Norths fitness staff are like. James Brayshaw described it as a country level club.
It also robs someone like Port who would be looking at him at the same time.
Click to expand...
Crouch was also injured a lot in this previous couple of years at Adelaide but hasnt missed a game (barring suspension) with us.
 
Joffaboy said:

ARTICLE PASTED BELOW

By John Ralph

St Kilda are in a period of transition under coach Ross Lyon, who is learning about his list on the fly. But how are they going to create up to $1.5m in cap space to land Tom De Koning and co?

Ross Lyon already knew Max King was a “special” talent to build a flag tilt around before he ran himself so hard he threw up at three quarter time in the loss to Hawthorn.

But in a first season at St Kilda he describes as a “year of exploration” he will have already learnt so much about his list in just 11 AFL games.

Last weekend as he drew breath to consider the club’s progress at the mid-season break this much was true in the world according to Ross.

St Kilda has vastly more young talent than the club had hoped even 18 months ago, with Matthaes Phillipou capable of anything, Mitch Owens a gloriously unique talent and the re-signed Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera humming along nicely.

And it has much more depth than it could have believed as Jack Billings and Tim Membrey played VFL while last year’s breakout midfielder Marcus Windhager worked on his deficiencies again for Sandringham.

Now comes the really interesting part for a team that has thrived under Lyon.

St Kilda has delayed a heap of contracts while Lyon and list boss Steve Silvagni assess what they have along with head of talent and acquisition Graeme Allen.

Those out of contract include Zac Jones, Jade Gresham, Nick Coffield, Jimmy Webster, Jack Bytel, Jack Higgins, Oscar Adams, Ryan Byrnes, Tom Highmore and Dan McKenzie.

For player managers patiently awaiting progress on talks for those players and more, it is getting closer to crunch time.

And yet the likelihood will be that St Kilda will play hard ball to create up to $1.5 million of cap space to go after A-grade talent that will actually take it closer to a premiership.

Rather than roll over deals for middle-tier players who have already been handsomely rewarded.

St Kilda has finally shed itself of the Dan Hannebery deal, has Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, is in the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal but according to Lyon is now clearly a small forward after years of experimentation on the wing.

Lyon commented with an air of bemusement as he entered Moorabbin over summer that the Saints paid the same salaries as Geelong.

As in: Who are we over-paying given their brilliant output compared to ours?

Coffield is still 6-8 weeks away with recurring calf issues but the backline is well-balanced: Cal Wilkie, Dougal Howard, Josh Battle as the talls and Jack Sinclair, Liam Stocker and Wanganeen-Milera the smalls.

If Coffield does fit into the defence it will come with a significant cost saving on his next deal.

Lyon explained on Saturday that St Kilda’s small forwards were simply outperforming Billings after a limited prep off a broken leg, but with Jack Higgins, Dan Butler and Brad Hill in excellent form it’s hard to see how that changes.

If a rival believed it could get the best out of Billings it would clear $1 million of cap space chase quality talent, even if the Saints didn’t get an early pick back in return.

Quite clearly Jones will take a pay cut if he stays next year, while Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season.

By targeted savings _ even with Max King’s new deal kicking in while re-signing Jack Higgins and Mason Wood _ it is easy to see how much cap space St Kilda has to play with.

The clear list gaps are an explosive mid-forward who wins clearances and kicks goals in a midfield where Seb Ross, Jack Steele and Brad Crouch are so honest yet similar players.

If only Jordan De Goey had not blinked that prayer would have been answered, although Jack Sinclair is just 28 and emerging as a full-fledged star.

St Kilda is likely to be a bidder for Tom De Koning and is interested in Port Adelaide’s Miles Bergman.

De Koning clearly looks the best of those options given St Kilda’s list needs but Bergman is a halfback who could easily roll up to the opposite wing to Wood or release Jack Sinclair to play permanent midfield.

Rowan Marshall has had a heck of a season playing pure ruck with some help from Zaine Cordy (13 ruck contests a game up until round 7), then Mitch Owens (28 in round 8) before Caminiti helped out in the past fortnight due to Owens’ concussion.

St Kilda could pitch to De Koning the role as King’s clear back-up who also releases Marshall forward, given he has kicked only one goal with his heavy ruck work load compared to 13 in 2020.

Just as Fremantle was able to shed millions in cap space and go after the game-changer it wanted in Luke Jackson, St Kilda’s improvement means it is ready to launch.

Those decisions ahead on contracts will be tough _ and likely involve some bruised egos.

But while Lyon has done the early-season heavy lifting now we get to see what Silvagni and Allan have in store.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Frightening stuff.

Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, it's also the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal

Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season
 
ScrappyDo said:
Frightening stuff.

Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, it's also the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal

Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season
Click to expand...
*exciting stuff 😉
 
ScrappyDo said:
Frightening stuff.

Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, it's also the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal

Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season
Click to expand...

I kinda read it the opposite way - we are going alright at present and have the opportunity via cap space freeing up to chase some absolute top shelf proven talent that will definitely improve us moving forward.
 
TheNewEnsign said:
I kinda read it the opposite way - we are going alright at present and have the opportunity via cap space freeing up to chase some absolute top shelf proven talent that will definitely improve us moving forward.
Click to expand...
Of course there's the positive aspects.
I just wonder what the cost per game is from all those mentioned.
Most if not all of them are running at under 50% availability since their last contracts.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Frightening stuff.

Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, it's also the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal

Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season
Click to expand...

If Jade and his manager are expecting to be paid the same figure he as his previous contract, I hope he is in for a rude shock. He was paid on his projected potential but he has never reached those heights, so he should take a pay cut or look else where IMO. He can't play sufficient midfield minutes and his small forward out put is limited so he doesnt have a lot of bargaining chips. If he wants big $$$ I think he will be one who the not so cuddly Lyon might cut?

As mentioned in the HS article I think Jack Billings might be another under achiever who will be encouraged to look for another club at seasons end. Personally I would also off load Hunter Clark, I just feel our midfield are going no where playing him and we might aswell trade him out while he still some trade value. Others obviously think differently of Hunter, but I hold strong concerns of his drive to improve.

Use the picks received to reset and go after genuine quality midfielders and another ruckman. Lyon has said many times he needs to have the year to assess the list - so hopefully at seasons end we see some positive list changes to address our weaknesses.
 
gringo2011 said:
He was list manager, he should have been planning a list with a range of profiles and ages. I think he was pretty average over all.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly what we have.

Young mids, mature mids, young forwards, mature forwards, young defenders mature defenders. Young rucks mature rucks.
 
Joffaboy said:

ARTICLE PASTED BELOW

By John Ralph

St Kilda are in a period of transition under coach Ross Lyon, who is learning about his list on the fly. But how are they going to create up to $1.5m in cap space to land Tom De Koning and co?

Ross Lyon already knew Max King was a “special” talent to build a flag tilt around before he ran himself so hard he threw up at three quarter time in the loss to Hawthorn.

But in a first season at St Kilda he describes as a “year of exploration” he will have already learnt so much about his list in just 11 AFL games.

Last weekend as he drew breath to consider the club’s progress at the mid-season break this much was true in the world according to Ross.

St Kilda has vastly more young talent than the club had hoped even 18 months ago, with Matthaes Phillipou capable of anything, Mitch Owens a gloriously unique talent and the re-signed Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera humming along nicely.

And it has much more depth than it could have believed as Jack Billings and Tim Membrey played VFL while last year’s breakout midfielder Marcus Windhager worked on his deficiencies again for Sandringham.

Now comes the really interesting part for a team that has thrived under Lyon.

St Kilda has delayed a heap of contracts while Lyon and list boss Steve Silvagni assess what they have along with head of talent and acquisition Graeme Allen.

Those out of contract include Zac Jones, Jade Gresham, Nick Coffield, Jimmy Webster, Jack Bytel, Jack Higgins, Oscar Adams, Ryan Byrnes, Tom Highmore and Dan McKenzie.

For player managers patiently awaiting progress on talks for those players and more, it is getting closer to crunch time.

And yet the likelihood will be that St Kilda will play hard ball to create up to $1.5 million of cap space to go after A-grade talent that will actually take it closer to a premiership.

Rather than roll over deals for middle-tier players who have already been handsomely rewarded.

St Kilda has finally shed itself of the Dan Hannebery deal, has Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, is in the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal but according to Lyon is now clearly a small forward after years of experimentation on the wing.

Lyon commented with an air of bemusement as he entered Moorabbin over summer that the Saints paid the same salaries as Geelong.

As in: Who are we over-paying given their brilliant output compared to ours?

Coffield is still 6-8 weeks away with recurring calf issues but the backline is well-balanced: Cal Wilkie, Dougal Howard, Josh Battle as the talls and Jack Sinclair, Liam Stocker and Wanganeen-Milera the smalls.

If Coffield does fit into the defence it will come with a significant cost saving on his next deal.

Lyon explained on Saturday that St Kilda’s small forwards were simply outperforming Billings after a limited prep off a broken leg, but with Jack Higgins, Dan Butler and Brad Hill in excellent form it’s hard to see how that changes.

If a rival believed it could get the best out of Billings it would clear $1 million of cap space chase quality talent, even if the Saints didn’t get an early pick back in return.

Quite clearly Jones will take a pay cut if he stays next year, while Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season.

By targeted savings _ even with Max King’s new deal kicking in while re-signing Jack Higgins and Mason Wood _ it is easy to see how much cap space St Kilda has to play with.

The clear list gaps are an explosive mid-forward who wins clearances and kicks goals in a midfield where Seb Ross, Jack Steele and Brad Crouch are so honest yet similar players.

If only Jordan De Goey had not blinked that prayer would have been answered, although Jack Sinclair is just 28 and emerging as a full-fledged star.

St Kilda is likely to be a bidder for Tom De Koning and is interested in Port Adelaide’s Miles Bergman.

De Koning clearly looks the best of those options given St Kilda’s list needs but Bergman is a halfback who could easily roll up to the opposite wing to Wood or release Jack Sinclair to play permanent midfield.

Rowan Marshall has had a heck of a season playing pure ruck with some help from Zaine Cordy (13 ruck contests a game up until round 7), then Mitch Owens (28 in round 8) before Caminiti helped out in the past fortnight due to Owens’ concussion.

St Kilda could pitch to De Koning the role as King’s clear back-up who also releases Marshall forward, given he has kicked only one goal with his heavy ruck work load compared to 13 in 2020.

Just as Fremantle was able to shed millions in cap space and go after the game-changer it wanted in Luke Jackson, St Kilda’s improvement means it is ready to launch.

Those decisions ahead on contracts will be tough _ and likely involve some bruised egos.

But while Lyon has done the early-season heavy lifting now we get to see what Silvagni and Allan have in store.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Surprised Lyon doesn't understand the salary cap rules - we have to pay the same amount of money as Geelong.

Lower placed clubs should be able to stockpile salary cap for longer than the current three years.

Same applies to the idea of "buying" draft picks in exchange for salary cap space - great idea for lower clubs as long as they don't get penalised if no deals eventuate.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Surprised Lyon doesn't understand the salary cap rules - we have to pay the same amount of money as Geelong.

Lower placed clubs should be able to stockpile salary cap for longer than the current three years.

Same applies to the idea of "buying" draft picks in exchange for salary cap space - great idea for lower clubs as long as they don't get penalised if no deals eventuate.
Click to expand...
He’s clearly tongue in cheek, as the article articulates
 

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If Gresham stays it makes sense to part ways with Billings, IF we have a decent target to spend the cap space on.

In terms of the Byrnes v Billings debate, we have looked too one paced so as much as Billings probably has more talent than Byrnes and would probably get more touches, I'm not sure that move helps us as a side?

He's 39 games into his career. The jury is still out but we aren't winning a flag by just playing the old crew.

The other thing is he is hardly smashing the door down. Averaging early 20's and less than a goal a game in the VFL. Needs to start dominating and demanding a spot.
 
bird_man said:
If Gresham stays it makes sense to part ways with Billings, IF we have a decent target to spend the cap space on.

In terms of the Byrnes v Billings debate, we have looked too one paced so as much as Billings probably has more talent than Byrnes and would probably get more touches, I'm not sure that move helps us as a side?

He's 39 games into his career. The jury is still out but we aren't winning a flag by just playing the old crew.

The other thing is he is hardly smashing the door down. Averaging early 20's and less than a goal a game in the VFL. Needs to start dominating and demanding a spot.
Click to expand...
Who would take Billing’s ? No one wanted him 2 years ago
Be case of giving him away to clear SC space
 
ScrappyDo said:
Of course there's the positive aspects.
I just wonder what the cost per game is from all those mentioned.
Most if not all of them are running at under 50% availability since their last contracts.
Click to expand...


And would be one the kind of money some of Geelong's superstar players are on. Same with the Tigers. They could bring in Lynch because they didn't pay their GOPs star money.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Which is exactly what we have.

Young mids, mature mids, young forwards, mature forwards, young defenders mature defenders. Young rucks mature rucks.
Click to expand...


I would say our list is all over the shop. Doesn't look planned or balanced.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Surprised Lyon doesn't understand the salary cap rules - we have to pay the same amount of money as Geelong.

Lower placed clubs should be able to stockpile salary cap for longer than the current three years.

Same applies to the idea of "buying" draft picks in exchange for salary cap space - great idea for lower clubs as long as they don't get penalised if no deals eventuate.
Click to expand...


Well you don't pay the same, there is a floor though. You can also stockpile that extra money for 4 years or something.
 

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Mowman said:
Who would take Billing’s ? No one wanted him 2 years ago
Be case of giving him away to clear SC space
Click to expand...
I’m sure there’d be plenty of interest from clubs knowing they could get him cheap.

But no, we wouldn’t be getting a lot if anything in a trade, it would be all about making salary cap space.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Frightening stuff.

Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield on expiring deals of over $500,000, it's also the final year of a Zac Jones deal paying him around $600,000.

Jack Billings has two more years and just over $1 million left on his deal

Jade Gresham is due for pay talks this fortnight but hasn’t shown he deserves a pay rise on a deal that is above $600,000 a season
Click to expand...

This looks exactly like where we were sitting when we did the big clean-out after Richo.

Players like Bruce, Hickey, Newness, Steven, McCartin were on similar coin. Looks like we just kept the over-paying to underperforming players under Ratts.

Bring on the new era I say.
 
Mowman said:
Who would take Billing’s ? No one wanted him 2 years ago
Be case of giving him away to clear SC space
Click to expand...

He's a contracted player, just can't dump him.

Another mistake by the list management to give him such a long contract at decent rates... when he wasn't performing.

We all dreamed that he would come good, sometimes players just don't unfortunately.
 
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