Looking ahead to 2024

[Warwick]

Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

Mm perhaps. Feel most teams would expect natural progression of their squads. Not everyone improves.

It’s those teams that have key younger players reaching 40-60 games that tend to make the most gains.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Centre half forward then.
Never going to be a regular mid , therefore he is always going to be a gamble in there in the big games.
Put him where his natural talent will skyrocket him to be a grat player.

Too short for a Centre Half Forward. He might have a good leap but he needs a lot more than that. A good Center Half Back would play him like a fiddle. His natural talent is in the midfield however he needs to improve his tank which will happen providing he follows the people in the club that can help him improve. ie. diet, cardio, mind.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Mm perhaps. Feel most teams would expect natural progression of their squads. Not everyone improves.

It’s those

If you look at our list, it's got a very different history than most. We started with a very young list which climbed up the ladder very quickly and have stayed there now for 5 years. In that time they have gained experience's that other teams have not for their ages. Now the list are about to enter into their peak years as footballers along with plenty of experience (including finals) that again most teams do not have...very distinct advantage for our club.

 

[Section 5]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

 

[Dalions]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I must have missed that one.

 

[Tom14]

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

 

[M Malice]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

 

[Tom14]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

Do you mean after Charlie's goal to put us in front? Dunks was next to De Goey, but slipped over so was behind by 5m and it was game over.

 

[Dalions]

Who were our 3 mids in the centre square for the last ball up on Grand Final day after Joe's goal?.... I am too traumatised to watch it to find out.

Other than live at the MCG on the day, I still haven’t re-watched the game.
When I got home and finally worked up the courage to sit down and watch it, started the recording and it only recorded 2mins of the pre-match spin.
I didn’t really want to watch it anyway.

 

[M Malice]

Do you mean after Charlie's goal to put us in front? Dunks was next to De Goey, but slipped over so was behind by 5m and it was game over.

I hope I am not having a Mandela effect moment... I do remember Charlie putting us in front but then we had the De Goey moment you mentioned and then the Jarrod Berry 50 meter brain fade... after that didn't Joe kick a goal to put us back within a goal with around a minute or so to go? I was wondering who was in the centre square after that Joe goal.

 

[Tom14]

I hope I am not having a Mandela effect moment... I do remember Charlie putting us in front but then we had the De Goey moment you mentioned and then the Jarrod Berry 50 meter brain fade... after that didn't Joe kick a goal to put us back within a goal with around a minute or so to go? I was wondering who was in the centre square after that Joe goal.

He did, in the middle after that goal was Dunks, Neale and JL - Berry won the clearance by spinning out of a tackle but then shanked the kick 35m high in the air to the 50m arc. Immediate result of that was the Neale free kick/bailey advantage call

 

[Lazza16]

Certainly a tease.

Numbers can look easy at times. If he could straighten up his attitude and endurance, find the ball 2 more times per quarter, he’d be a 25 possession mid.

If only this game was so easy!

I remember Russell Greene the former Hawk n Saint say that he would make sure he got at least x amount of disposals per qtr...can't recall the number maybe 5 and if he was behind he would push push push to make sure he got them.

 

[Section 5]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

Agree on Bailey as goal kicking is part of his game style.
I wish Neal was more confident in kicking goals when he is withing scoring distance.
Luckily Orla decided to have a 5% shot on goal against Adelaide week 1 of the AFLW finals.
Difference being the ladies got a 2-point win.
Then there are players like Akermanis.

Commentators and most likely fans too, always have an opinion after the event.
If someone kicks a difficult goal everyone is happy.

It is only after they miss that some talk will turn towards "not team oriented play".
Clearly so and so was sitting unattended, and it should have been passed to them.

There are defiantly times that a pass is needed instead of a shot on goal on the run.
However, i don't think it is in general an issue throughout the AFL, Lions or with Bailey.

I have always been of the opinion you may as well stuff up a kick on goal then stuff up a pass to a teammate in the vicinity of goal.

 

[Berrygood]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I remember seeing that interview too. That's great trust and belief put onto Cam by the coach. Good for Cam too, to be given that responsibility, to be given some ownership in the direction of the game. I actually like that for him. Confidence, leadership, responsibility, all traits that will make him a better, more mature, more intelligent player. I hope that continues next season. I reckon the more he does it, the better player we will see.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yep, I've mentioned it before but A grade/elite endurance has a large genetic component to it, no doubt Cam can improve his endurance but he is never going to be an Ed Langdon or Steele Sidebottom gut runner or even close to it.

At best Rayner looks like our version of Jake Stringer.

Cameron Rayner and Jake Stringer AFL Stats Comparison

Cameron Rayner and Jake Stringer AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[twhowler]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au

 

[dlanod]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au

That's my understanding too. The LTI list was already six weeks - that article just amended it for COVID times to be six rounds (since rounds != weeks then), and the ability to select rookies was only ever explicitly extended to Cat A players.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I saw an interview late last year with Fagan when he was asked about Rayner: Who decides when Rayner goes into the midfield.

His answer was: We actually leave it to Cam to decide when he thinks the move is the right time.

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

 

[Section 5]

No idea if this is still the rule, but this suggests cat b need a LTI but the LTI list now is only a 6 week commitment. So we would presumably start the season with Doedee and Ashcroft on that list meaning Brain could play in the opening 6 rounds at least, and at that point the club should know if one or both of Doedee / Ashcroft have another 6 weeks at least until playing.

At least that is my reading of it?

AFL tweaks long-term injury list eligibilty to give clubs greater flexibility

Players will miss a minimum of six rounds, not six weeks once placed on long-term injury list

www.afl.com.au

It is still 6 weeks as far as i know.
Usually, clubs don't rush to place injured players on the LTI list.
Different circumstances for different situations and clubs.
If the Cat B players are ready to play at AFL level, the club will consider the move.
No point in doing it if they are 3 back of the starting 23 in their positions.
It is quick enough to implement with the AFL should the club think they are ready to debut.

Where the Cat B player actually plays in relation to the injuries in the whole side would be important.

They don't necessarily need to fill in the role of our two LTI players being a midfield and a 3rd KPF.

The other consideration is if say Doedee is placed on the LTI list Doedee can't play for 6 weeks.

 

[Section 5]

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

Mighty Lions Fagan did say that. No interpretation was needed.
Not necessary in the exact words i used, as i did not write the words as a "quotation."
I remember it clearly as i thought it was interesting at the time.
I am sure you have not seen or listened to all of Fagans interviews or quotes.

 

[Scubaveg]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

100% agree with Mighty Lions here. Bailey is selfish and at times can be a hot head. So much potential yet very immature as a footballer.


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[Scubaveg]

I dont think he said that...maybe your interpretation of what was spoken.

I recall that conversation, that how I interpreted it as well.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[3KZ is Football]

Bailey is an out and out gun! All small forwards look a little selfish because of the nature of their role. I also admit he does need to work on his defensive game and improve his tackling. That to one side, his speed and capacity to read the play are right up there with the great small forwards of the competition, making him a joy to watch for the footy purists.

Nothing immature about his after the siren goal against Collingwood in Rd 3. 2021



Bailey also produces on the big stage. His two last quarter goals in the 2022 Semi Final win over Melbourne helped win the game. His last goal was a cracker - fast, clean, unstoppable.



Then there was this, again on the big stage. He’d already kicked our first goal in the Grand Final and then he pulls this out.



This is not the work of an immature footballer. When you look at Bailey, you are looking at genius.

 

[Mighty Lions]

You've been on this train for some time and I'm sure there is truth in it. But have to push back on Bailey needing to be more team oriented 'for us to be a grand final winning side.'

Without bailey kicking two spectacular and reasonably selfish goals in the first quarter we don't stay in that game, and at the end of the day we were less than a kick away from winning. We lost that game in the middle and frankly it took some ridiculous individual brilliance to make it so close.

Ultimately I don't expect rayner to do more than have a couple of match winning performances a year. One of those was in the qualifying final this year so that's pretty good.

I dont class those goals by Bailey as one bit selfish....in fact I saw them as inspirational and team lifting.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I dont class those goals by Bailey as one bit selfish....in fact I saw them as inspirational and team lifting.

Depends how you view the term "selfish" I suppose. It doesn't always mean a bad thing.