Cummins Overrated?

[KBLT]

Something something something woke

I sincerely hope this thread continues to age so well for a long time to come.

 

[sosos]

For those old enough to have seen both players bowl, how do you rate Cummins compared to Dennis Lillie?

Dennis is iconic. Fearsome, fast and accurate early on, then re-invented himself to take wickets in any conditions. Pat is becoming great before our eyes. I doubt he will ever be revered in the same way, but still a good comparison. Seems to be taking wickets through sheer force of will, something DKL specialised in.

 

[Xtreme]

Above average bowler manages to bowl a below average cricket side

I am shocked to be sitting here!

 

[Young Redleg]

Above average bowler manages to bowl a below average cricket side

I am shocked to be sitting here!

Lol that's a really bad attempt at undermining his performance. Pakistan definitely would have won that game if Cummins wasn't playing.

 

[Xtreme]

Lol that's a really bad attempt at undermining his performance. Pakistan definitely would have won that game if Cummins wasn't playing.

Then that's an indictment on the rest of the Australian line up and the selectors at large. Cummings is a world class bowler and if he didn't deliver, questions would need to be asked from top to bottom.

 

[frankrizzo]

I doubt he will ever be revered in the same way,

depends by which generation, yeah i doubt ones older than cummins will remember him that way but if you are say 14-15 year old cricket fan 20 years from now when some other great young quick pops up on the scene you will probably remember cummins as the best you have ever seen.

 

[Retzlaff]

If he didn’t side with expert climate scientists, he’d be one of Australia’s all time greats

 

[THE A5]

If he didn’t side with expert climate scientists, he’d be one of Australia’s all time greats

What does his world views and politics have to do with his on field performances?

 

[Xtreme]

If he didn’t side with expert climate scientists, he’d be one of Australia’s all time greats

Would like to see him seek alternate modes of transport if he's so concerned about the environment!

 

[Slysh]

Above average bowler manages to bowl a below average cricket side

I am shocked to be sitting here!

I swear this is a new generation way of thinking, no way did we just dismiss performances as much 15+ years ago.

We find ways to just discredit 90% of athletes, performances and teams it is so dumb.

How hard is it for people to just say 'yeah he is too good, hell of a player'

 

[Black Diamond]

depends by which generation, yeah i doubt ones older than cummins will remember him that way but if you are say 14-15 year old cricket fan 20 years from now when some other great young quick pops up on the scene you will probably remember cummins as the best you have ever seen.

A lot of the Lillie aura is due to certain commentators pumping his tyres for ages.

McGrath has Lillie covered in most respects but not many rate McGrath higher.

Cummins’ legend win’t grow as much for the same reason.

 

[Xtreme]

How hard is it for people to just say 'yeah he is too good, hell of a player'

Because we've seen better

 

[The Lobbster]

I swear this is a new generation way of thinking, no way did we just dismiss performances as much 15+ years ago.

We find ways to just discredit 90% of athletes, performances and teams it is so dumb.

How hard is it for people to just say 'yeah he is too good, hell of a player'

I think it’s just a sustained success thing as opposed to a generation thing although the internet being so widely available definitely contributes.

For some people, Australia not dominating every minute of every session of every day of every test is a failure. For most (I hope) winning the test is enough. Doesn’t mean you can’t analyse then game but when all is said and done, if you’re winning you must be doing something right.

However this thread also shows that for some, Pat Cummins crime of expressing an explicitly personal political opinion is one which is unforgivable, and as such every effort must be made to discredit him, not matter how small a mistake he makes.

 

[big_e]

For those old enough to have seen both players bowl, how do you rate Cummins compared to Dennis Lillie?

Dennis Lillee transcends cricket, imo.

When I think of the quintessential Australian in the 1970s, I think of Dennis Lillee. Brash, in your face, the moustache, short unbuttoned, hairy chest, not giving a stuff about authority.

He also had the benefit of being one of the key players when World Series Cricket happened, so he was lauded by Channel Nine during and after that period. He was one of their guys.

Cricket probably played a more central role in Australian culture then than it does now.

Patrick Cummins is an exceptional cricketer, but he doesn't have that aura I'm popular culture that Lillee did.

 

[Soggy2112]

Above average bowler manages to bowl a below average cricket side

I am shocked to be sitting here!

Test averages of batsmen dismissed by Cummins in this test:

Shafique 49.11
Babar 46.44
Rizwan 39.59
Salman 44.13
Imam-ul-haq 37.59
Masood 28.53

The four bolded players would all be considered above average.

 

[Xtreme]

Test averages of batsmen dismissed by Cummins in this test:

Shafique 49.11
Babar 46.44
Rizwan 39.59
Salman 44.13
Imam-ul-haq 37.59
Masood 28.53

The four bolded players would all be considered above average.

Oh please gotta have a test average above 55 for that

 

[Portmagpies36]

A lot of the Lillie aura is due to certain commentators pumping his tyres for ages.

McGrath has Lillie covered in most respects but not many rate McGrath higher.

Cummins’ legend win’t grow as much for the same reason.

Did you actually see Dennis Lillee bowl?

 

[Some Idiot]

Comfortably one of the best fast bowlers ever at this stage of his career.

 

[Wormkilla]

Cummins is great but so is Kagiso Rabada. So underrated. And only 28.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Pat passing Richie today also makes him the highest captain on Australia's all-time wicket-takers list. Both led their country 20+ times, neither suffered the indignity of having to give a series losers' speech. Braddles the only other Aussie to manage that.

So 2 of our 3 most successful captains are bowlers, despite the stigma.

 

[Paracleet]

The Postman delivers again.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Cummins is great but so is Kagiso Rabada. So underrated. And only 28.

Never forget Cummins lost years to injury

And he can hold a bat

And he can captain

 

[Cursed Cat]

Cummins is great but so is Kagiso Rabada. So underrated. And only 28.

I put Jasprit Bumrah in the same company as Patty Cummins and Rabada, too - Bumrah is a unique talent; he's had his injury and availability issues but you only have to watch him actually bowl to realize just how gifted he is.

As for Pat himself; he just grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck this afternoon, it was good to watch.

Earlier this year I had concerns that some of the venom was gone from his bouncer, but he has struck back hard in the back end of 2023 and that bouncer is once again a fearsome missile.

 

[Wormkilla]

I put Jasprit Bumrah in the same company as Patty Cummins and Rabada, too - Bumrah is a unique talent; he's had his injury and availability issues but you only have to watch him actually bowl to realize just how gifted he is.

As for Pat himself; he just grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck this afternoon, it was good to watch.

Earlier this year I had concerns that some of the venom was gone from his bouncer, but he has struck back hard in the back end of 2023 and that bouncer is once again a fearsome missile.

Bumrah is a freak. Imagine him playing indoor cricket coming in off 3 steps. He would literally kill someone. Only a population of 1.3 billion could the odds produce someone like him with that outrageous mutant ability to hyperextend his elbow and generate pace from nothing. And combined with his seam position - it’s unbelievable.

 

[Wormkilla]

Never forget Cummins lost years to injury

And he can hold a bat

And he can captain

Wasn’t saying Rabada was better overall as a cricketer, precious.

He is a better bowler but. Record proves it.