Replacing Kiddy for 2024

[SpecialBruce]

You would have to think we will elevate one.
Probably more likely Brain at this stage because he can play down back.

How was Brain down back in reserves last year?

 

[M Malice]

How was Brain down back in reserves last year?

I never witnessed it but there were a few on here that said he was impressive down back.

 

[Nunez]

How was Brain down back in reserves last year?

He went from FAR down the pecking order to being close to a debut towards the end of the year. Hope he's had a big pre-season.

 

[Dalions]

How was Brain down back in reserves last year?

Showed something very quickly after moving there.

 

[KissKiss]

Very good user of the footy.

I think he is a good user but I dont think I've seen him take on a lot of risking kicks into the corridor or the like. I wonder if he mostly plays it safe or its just him playing off the wing means its pretty straight line inside 50

 

[Nunez]

I think he is a good user but I dont think I've seen him take on a lot of risking kicks into the corridor or the like. I wonder if he mostly plays it safe or its just him playing off the wing means its pretty straight line inside 50

Think he's very diligent in his role above all else.

 

[Squizz89]

I wonder with the Kiddy injury and the lack of a like for like replacement with the same foot skills, whether we revert to having Charlie play as the deepest forward a bit more, and trying to get him out into space over the back of teams. We played this way in his breakout year in 2019, and I do wonder whether we should set up with 3 running HB's instead to try and implement this a bit more again. I don't believe we have the foot skills to pick teams apart bringing the ball down the field, especially without Kiddy back there.

I guess the only issue is, that whilst still incredibly fast, Charlie at 30 probably doesn't have the same speed as he did at 25. We saw Saad be able to match him in this area last week, for example.

 

[Tom14]

I wonder with the Kiddy injury and the lack of a like for like replacement with the same foot skills, whether we revert to having Charlie play as the deepest forward a bit more, and trying to get him out into space over the back of teams. We played this way in his breakout year in 2019, and I do wonder whether we should set up with 3 running HB's instead to try and implement this a bit more again. I don't believe we have the foot skills to pick teams apart bringing the ball down the field, especially without Kiddy back there.

I guess the only issue is, that whilst still incredibly fast, Charlie at 30 probably doesn't have the same speed as he did at 25. We saw Saad be able to match him in this area last week, for example.

Saad is very very quick though. Has consistently been one of the few players fast enough to keep up with Charlie.

 

[dlanod]

Saad is very very quick though. Has consistently been one of the few players fast enough to keep up with Charlie.

Charlie averages about 1.6 goals against Carlton, about equal fourth worst after Sydney (one goal per game), Port (1.4 - most games were with Adelaide), and Essendon (1.5). Saad is a big part of that as he consistently takes that matchup.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I wonder with the Kiddy injury and the lack of a like for like replacement with the same foot skills, whether we revert to having Charlie play as the deepest forward a bit more, and trying to get him out into space over the back of teams. We played this way in his breakout year in 2019, and I do wonder whether we should set up with 3 running HB's instead to try and implement this a bit more again. I don't believe we have the foot skills to pick teams apart bringing the ball down the field, especially without Kiddy back there.

I guess the only issue is, that whilst still incredibly fast, Charlie at 30 probably doesn't have the same speed as he did at 25. We saw Saad be able to match him in this area last week, for example.

Oh my word I hope this is the very last thing we try. It didn't work last week, it has a history of not working out, ESPECIALLY when we played Freo in 2022.

We simply need more from our key forwards in terms of creating a contest inside 50, and better connectivity between the lines allowing us to (a) get the ball down there and then (b) get the little blokes front and centre when it does.

 

[Tom14]

Charlie averages about 1.6 goals against Carlton, about equal fourth worst after Sydney (one goal per game), Port (1.4 - most games were with Adelaide), and Essendon (1.5). Saad is a big part of that as he consistently takes that matchup.

Reckon Charlie got Saad once, one of the covid games at Metricon against Essendon? Otherwise he's been very quiet against him. Carlton played Newman on him during the H&A game last year at marvel when Charlie kicked 4 I think; then switched it to saad for the prelim and he was pretty quiet.

 

[rye]

tbf charlie should have kicked 3+ in each if our last 2 games against carlton where saad went to him, gave charlie absolute gimme shots for goal and he just couldnt convert

 

[Tom14]

tbf charlie should have kicked 3+ in each if our last 2 games against carlton where saad went to him, gave charlie absolute gimme shots for goal and he just couldnt convert

Yeah Charlie's accuracy has been quietly a bit brutal for a while. He's stuffing up a lot of snaps he'd have slotted in his sleep for years, oftentimes not scoring at all. His set shot kicking was good for most of last year so hopefully last week was an aberration.

 

[rye]

Yeah Charlie's accuracy has been quietly a bit brutal for a while. He's stuffing up a lot of snaps he'd have slotted in his sleep for years, oftentimes not scoring at all. His set shot kicking was good for most of last year so hopefully last week was an aberration.

that kick from coleman from outside 50 past carltons web defence and to charlies advantage where it hit him right on the tit was poetry in motion. had a shot 10 metres out slight angle and fluffed it.

cant rewatch it makes me sad thinking thats the type of kick we will be without for the rest of the season

 

[Nathan Barley]

Charlie even got the easy goal at the start of the game from a Dizzy handball that usually gets him going

 

[Section 5]

I never witnessed it but there were a few on here that said he was impressive down back.

I was impressed with his training the few times i attended.
Was also solid in the intraclub that i saw.
Because of his injury issues best to see how he goes at VFL level and how he pulls up.
He has developed into a good-sized AFL player being on our list for a while.

 

[lionshine]

I like the idea mentioned by some of keeping Lester in once Doedee returns allowing Doedee to play looser and float across for intercepts and utilise his elite kicking skills exiting defensive 50. Andrews, Payne/Gardiner, Lester, Doedee, Starcevich, Wilmot and McKenna as the back 7. Payne to replace Gardiner if he builds up form and confidence in the VFL.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Forgot about Brain, did show some good signs in the reserves.

Nowhere near Kiddys level, particularly his elite distribution by foot but at least we have a lot of options in that area of the ground. eg. Madden, Prior, Answerth, Brain, Michael, Ah Chee.

One solution I don't want is playing all 4 of Andrews, Payne, Gardiner and Lester in the back 7.

That one has been potentially solved by selection this week.

Our strongest defensive line up at present is:
FB Gardiner, Andrews, Starcevich
HB McKenna, Lester, Wilmott
With Ah Chee and possibly Zorko on interchange in the defensive rotation. Prior and Answerth also come into the selection mix.

Once Doedee is available, our best defence would be:
FB Gardiner, Andrews, Starcevich,
HB McKenna, Lester, Doedee
With Wilmott a LOCK in the defensive rotation and Ah Chee available. Zorko, Prior or Answerth are again available to be selected for a defensive role if required.

 

[briztoon]

I’m very much in the Doedee or Lester “camp”. Don’t believe we can play both for an extended period of games.

 

[M Malice]

I’m very much in the Doedee or Lester “camp”. Don’t believe we can play both for an extended period of games.

Yep, I don't like the look of all 4 of Andrews, Doedee, Lester and Gardiner in the same back line... then you have the possibility/hope that Jack Payne can find his best form, if he does he is a lock IMO.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Doedee and Starcevich are both 187cm and with Lester having cemented himself, alongside Andrews as our most important “tall” defender, there is no reason to presume Doedee coming in will be at Lester’s expense.

 

[M Malice]

Doedee and Starcevich are both 187cm and with Lester having cemented himself, alongside Andrews as our most important “tall” defender, there is no reason to presume Doedee coming in will be at Lester’s expense.

Footy wire and lions.com both have Doedee at 190cm.... every centimetre counts 3KZ.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Footy wire and lions.com both have Doedee at 190cm.... every centimetre counts 3KZ.

I was going off Wikipedia, where he was listed at 187cm. I will trust the club to have it right. This is what Wikipedia says.

Tom Doedee
Personal information
Date of birth	1 March 1997 (age 27)
Original team(s)	Geelong Falcons (TAC Cup)/St Joseph's Football Club
Draft	No. 17, 2015 national draft
Debut	Round 1, 2018, Adelaide vs. Essendon, at Etihad Stadium
Height	187 cm (6 ft 2 in)
Weight	89 kg (196 lb)
Position(s)	Key defender

As to size M Malice - Jack Payne illustrates that it is not how big it is, but what you do with it.

 

[briztoon]

Doedee and Starcevich are both 187cm and with Lester having cemented himself, alongside Andrews as our most important “tall” defender, there is no reason to presume Doedee coming in will be at Lester’s expense.

I don’t believe Lester has cemented himself as our second most important tall defender at all.

I believe he’s in the team as we have had no better option to play as a third tall defender.

I do believe Lester is a very smart player, reads the play very well, and is able to make up for some of his athletic deficiencies because of his footy IQ. Big fan of Lester.

But if we have Andrews and a fully fit Doedee in the team, I'm only picking one of Lester or Gardiner in the team, and I'm picking Gardiner for the second tall role. And I'm a well known critic of Gardiner and have been for a number of years.

Playing all four of Andrews, Gardiner, Lester and Doedee is just begging oppositions to cut us up by playing an extra small forward or two.

How many teams legitimately have more than two gun tall forwards?

 

[3KZ is Football]

I don’t believe Lester has cemented himself as our second most important tall defender at all.

I believe he’s in the team as we have had no better option to play as a third tall defender.

I do believe Lester is a very smart player, reads the play very well, and is able to make up for some of his athletic deficiencies because of his footy IQ. Big fan of Lester.

But if we have Andrews and a fully fit Doedee in the team, I'm only picking one of Lester or Gardiner in the team, and I'm picking Gardiner for the second tall role. And I'm a well known critic of Gardiner and have been for a number of years.

Playing all four of Andrews, Gardiner, Lester and Doedee is just begging oppositions to cut us up by playing an extra small forward or two.

How many teams legitimately have more than two gun tall forwards?

The reason I say that is based on the fact that Fagan has finally dropped a serially disappointing Payne and was prepared to play Gardiner as a forward last week, rather than a defender.

As to Lester’s “athletic deficiencies” they are spoken about, but not actually evident when you watch him play. He is a tremendous spoiler, a great tackler, wears the physical hits to force stoppages and was a notable rebound defender last season. He has amazing endurance and never, ever gives up.

You are right though briztoon about his football IQ and that is a super important part of what he brings. He is really performing the backline general role that we picked up Hodge and Grant Burchill for and I think he is really excelling in that role. He is more athletically gifted than either of those players and he is certainly quicker than either was when they were at the Lions.