The Matthews / Bruns incident. What was it that caused the aftermath ?

[the avoca drover]

Nope.

Neville Bruns was a dirty sniper who regularly took sneaky sly shots at Hawthorn players over the years. Always when they weren't looking. He was reported by umpires in the 1st half of that 1985 game at Princes Park for cowardly punching Michael Tuck.

Geelong went after the Hawks that day, going the knuckle in the first half and again in the last quarter, well before Lethal lashed out. (Just like they did in the 1989 GF)

Has anyone mentioned this yet in the previous 4 pages of the thread or have they conveniently glossed over this fact?

Leigh Matthews noted in his autobiography that Bruns was a hypocrite who liked to dish it out, but who squealed like a bitch when he copped some back. "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

Bruns also decided to press charges against Matthews, the first time any VFL player had done that before. So much for the players' code!!!

Rightly or wrongly, that was the reason why Bruns was booed by Hawks fans for the remainder of his career.

Typical of some of you Geelong flogs to act holier than thou and to ignore the totality of the facts and to pretend the 'old school' violence on the footy field wasn't a two way street.

​

He was also known for the sneaky ankle tap.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

All of Jeans’ teams had plenty of thugs who would engage in cowardly king hits on opponents who weren’t looking or expecting it.

It’s not a coincidence. It was clearly part of his modus operandi.

Yeah and Sheedy was such a good Samaritan in comparison. Turn it up. Terry Daniher on Gavin Brown is as bad as any king hit that's happened. Sheedy condoned all that stuff. He loved it so don't try and paint a picture it's all Jean's doing.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

That hit on Dermott was great. And he hit Ablett hard as well. Ablett bounced back though.

Archer got up to with a smile on his face. The real tough guys appreciate physicality even if there on the receiving end.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Got 5 weeks in Rd 2 1996, Gazza started with 9 in Rd 1, and kicked 6 in a high scoring win over St.Kilda at K.P. I know Gary sought to claim that Bardsley (Anning) was hit by his bicep/forearm rather than an elbow, but he certainly suffered a nasty facial injury and bled profusely from probably a broken nose. Gazza would up kicking 69 goals for the year, in 17 games....so just 52 in the remaining 15.

Johnny Gastev twice I think discovered being in the leading zone of Gary Sr was fraught with danger.

He wasnt leading he was fending Bardsley off after grabbing a loose ball near the goal square who went in to tackle him and smashed him in the face with his elbow. Real nasty act. Nobody remonstrated with him though knowing his reputation.

 

[raymond35]

I don't think Jeans was a thug coach but he did have some thug players. In the 60s it was a tactical requirement, in the 70s Richmobd and Carlton were very durty, North less so. By the 80s Essendon was bashing Hawthorn up in Grabd Finals.

Matthews was a thug who hit blokes in order to win games. Not a madman, maybe sociopath describes it? I'm not a doctor. He was seen as dirty in the early 70s, in thd 8ps he was a thug dinosaur.

Mark Jackson was a mug lair, could play a bit but hit blokes for fun.

Bruns was tough, and maybe a bit of a thug but Matthews hit him from behind, well off the ball, a cowardly calculated act. There was nothing to prompt it, except the assumption it would not be seen.

Maybe memories of O'Dea prompted police action. Geelong have some "top end of town" support, MPs and big land owners. Maybe some Geelong powerbrokers demanded retribution for Matthews. He was a known basher who was rarely caught.

Just a side note, I never saw Worsfold do anything brave. I saw him hit from behind, and choke blokes who were pinned. Off field a fine coach and a nice person i am told but on field he seemed a cowardly thug.

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you mentioned it, Worsfold was certainly one of the most gutless players I've seen play the game.
An inept footballer who made a career out of jumping knees first into players going for the ball.
Not sure who these people are talking about, maybe his brother.

 

[Shane Heard]

Yeah and Sheedy was such a good Samaritan in comparison. Turn it up. Terry Daniher on Gavin Brown is as bad as any king hit that's happened. Sheedy condoned all that stuff. He loved it so don't try and paint a picture it's all Jean's doing.

Time again for me to remind misinformed folks of the truth of the TD punch on Brown.

Terry was running in and saw Brown king hit Kieron Sporn so moments later he thought he’d make Gav pay for that and subsequently belted him.

The way Brown is portrayed in that incident as a Jesus-like saint being crucified on the cross really grinds my gears.



It wasn’t captured on tv footage unfortunately..

Here’s Terry and Brown together remembering the moment ..

 

[Shane Heard]

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you mentioned it, Worsfold was certainly one of the most gutless players I've seen play the game.
An inept footballer who made a career out of jumping knees first into players going for the ball.
Not sure who these people are talking about, maybe his brother.

Seriously now..that is a ridiculous thing to say about JW

 

[Cyclops]

Time again for me to remind misinformed folks of the truth of the TD punch on Brown.

Terry was running in and saw Brown king hit Kieron Sporn so moments later he thought he’d make Gav pay for that and subsequently belted him.

The way Brown is portrayed in that incident as a Jesus-like saint being crucified on the cross really grinds my gears.



It wasn’t captured on tv footage unfortunately..

Here’s Terry and Brown together remembering the moment ..

I was at the game. I didn't see the hit on Brown.

The quarter time incident began with Kelly and Banks bullying Sporn after the siren and the Bombers rightly flew the flag.

We all saw Kickett come flying in and assumed he felled Brown (it was q theatrical bit of play, he was fiery but not a thug). I believe Brown plowed into the melee and TD tracked him in and smashed him from behind. Likely it was a square up.

TD also felled Starcevich in the 3rd, a two punch combo to the head from behind after a clean mark on the lead on tge southern flank Punt Road end. Quite an open bit of thuggery, then Brown came on for Starcs (no concussion protocol in 1990) and broke his nose, off the play (to his face but frankly it was common assault) and he was rightly suspended.

Both hits were unlike TD. He was a tough player, stood up for himself and could be fierce but AFAIK not a sniper. I think he saw the Bombers were in trouble and tried to reverse fortune with some desperate acts. Neither hit was "heat of the moment" stuff, TD aimed at removing two of the Pies best forwards by concussing them with punches to the head from behind.

It was also unlike Brown. He was a very straight at the ball player, known for suicidal courage. However it was a very hot grand final and Matthews even had Daicos laying tackles. Our violence was extremely focused and geared toward winning, a very Matthews style team, so I believe TD if he says Brown smashed someone. Unsure if it was Sporn, I thought Kelly and Banks were scragging him on the ground at the time.

Just on Worsfold, I can't speak on his whole career. I saw him vs the Pies, and I was at the 1991 and 1994 GranFinals. Just saying what I saw, which was hesitation when it was hot and a load of cheap shots, and some choking.

It's weird, the sides he coached were 100% about run and skill, hard at it but nothing unsociable.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Did a bit of digging and surprisingly, wasn’t the first time it happened.

FOOTBALLER PUNCHED - PLAYER FINED £5 J.P. DECLINES TO ACT - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 1 Sep 1922

Carlton Court was thronged today by football patrons, when an incident in the match between Carlton and Collingwood, at the Carlton oval, on July ...

trove.nla.gov.au

Collingwood’s Henry Saunders was charged by police and appeared in court after assaulting Carlton’s Alex Duncan in 1922.

He was found guilty and fined £5 in lieu of a month in prison. Was seemingly a big scandal at the time, as you can imagine.

 

[MadMaxx]

I'm sorta "glad"(??) this topic's come up simply to reinforce the perceptions of Alan Jeans and his thuggish tactics. Having been born a long time before most of you, I grew up in an era of tough men playing a tough game and I vividly remember moments of treachery and the evening up that accompanied them.

Robroy22, Do you recall Hawthorns "Delicate" Des Dickson?

All the Hawk Hard men and thugs speak of him with reverence.

A mate of mines dad, who played a handful of games for the pies back in the 60's said he was the most horrifyingly scary player in the league, and was feared by all. Was far more interested in the knuckle than the ball.

I think he only playes 4-5 years in the years when not all games were televised, so he has been lost a bit in the history of VFL/AFL thugs.

 

[My Tilly]

Nope.

Neville Bruns was a dirty sniper who regularly took sneaky sly shots at Hawthorn players over the years. Always when they weren't looking. He was reported by umpires in the 1st half of that 1985 game at Princes Park for cowardly punching Michael Tuck.

Geelong went after the Hawks that day, going the knuckle in the first half and again in the last quarter, well before Lethal lashed out. (Just like they did in the 1989 GF)

Has anyone mentioned this yet in the previous 4 pages of the thread or have they conveniently glossed over this fact?

Leigh Matthews noted in his autobiography that Bruns was a hypocrite who liked to dish it out, but who squealed like a bitch when he copped some back. "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

Bruns also decided to press charges against Matthews, the first time any VFL player had done that before. So much for the players' code!!!

Rightly or wrongly, that was the reason why Bruns was booed by Hawks fans for the remainder of his career.

Typical of some of you Geelong flogs to act holier than thou and to ignore the totality of the facts and to pretend the 'old school' violence on the footy field wasn't a two way street.

​

What absolute tripe!

Neville Bruns was one of the fairest players of his era. He was hard but he played the game honest. He was constantly hit and on many occasions, knocked out.
Hawthorn were one of the dirties and most physical teams of that period. They had a lot of snipers. They would bully and torment sides into oblivion. This was part of their aura.

This crap about Geelong going the knuckle that day . . . where did you come up with that?
Bruns never pressed charges. I have the bloody video from the incident. Eddie McGuire interviews Bruns in hospital and he states he did not want to take it further. What happens on the field, stays on the field.

Talk about history revisionism at it's finest.
And calling Geelong posters flogs, your true personality is showing here.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I'll never understand how belting blokes when they weren't looking was remotely seen as "tough".

Even allowing for It Was A Different Era....I get that a bloke going hard at the ball and the man might be seen as courageous. But king hitting someone when they're completely not expecting it (especially if it was against a fair ball-player) is a cowardly act, why were these guys seen as "Hard Men"??

 

[Shane Heard]

I was at the game. I didn't see the hit on Brown.

The quarter time incident began with Kelly and Banks bullying Sporn after the siren and the Bombers rightly flew the flag.

We all saw Kickett come flying in and assumed he felled Brown (it was q theatrical bit of play, he was fiery but not a thug). I believe Brown plowed into the melee and TD tracked him in and smashed him from behind. Likely it was a square up.

TD also felled Starcevich in the 3rd, a two punch combo to the head from behind after a clean mark on the lead on tge southern flank Punt Road end. Quite an open bit of thuggery, then Brown came on for Starcs (no concussion protocol in 1990) and broke his nose, off the play (to his face but frankly it was common assault) and he was rightly suspended.

Both hits were unlike TD. He was a tough player, stood up for himself and could be fierce but AFAIK not a sniper. I think he saw the Bombers were in trouble and tried to reverse fortune with some desperate acts. Neither hit was "heat of the moment" stuff, TD aimed at removing two of the Pies best forwards by concussing them with punches to the head from behind.

It was also unlike Brown. He was a very straight at the ball player, known for suicidal courage. However it was a very hot grand final and Matthews even had Daicos laying tackles. Our violence was extremely focused and geared toward winning, a very Matthews style team, so I believe TD if he says Brown smashed someone. Unsure if it was Sporn, I thought Kelly and Banks were scragging him on the ground at the time.

Just on Worsfold, I can't speak on his whole career. I saw him vs the Pies, and I was at the 1991 and 1994 GranFinals. Just saying what I saw, which was hesitation when it was hot and a load of cheap shots, and some choking.

It's weird, the sides he coached were 100% about run and skill, hard at it but nothing unsociable.

Yeah I was there too in 90’..I was 20 years old

But standing room rear punt rd end so a fair way away from it and I was drunk as hell by then because me and my mate got in there at 9am to get a spot and from memory they started serving beer at 10.30 or so.

Terry was at the end of his time then and I can honestly say it was totally out of character him doing that.

All the way back to when he debuted for Essendon 78’ I cannot remember a moment of him doing something thuggish.

All I mostly remember of that game is how well Millane played. We had a huge bloke next to us who was a pie with a booming voice and would yell out “ the raggggggggging bullll!!!” every time he got the ball.

We left 10 minutes into the last.

You could hear the Collingwood crowd from Richmond platform when the siren went …

 

[Shane Heard]

I'll never understand how belting blokes when they weren't looking was remotely seen as "tough".

Even allowing for It Was A Different Era....I get that a bloke going hard at the ball and the man might be seen as courageous. But king hitting someone when they're completely not expecting it (especially if it was against a fair ball-player) is a cowardly act, why were these guys seen as "Hard Men"??

I don’t see anyone applauding king hits.

Just revisiting old incidents of mindless violence

Crunching blokes at top pace and running through them with your shoulder though is part of the game.

 

[Shane Heard]

Yeah and Sheedy was such a good Samaritan in comparison. Turn it up. Terry Daniher on Gavin Brown is as bad as any king hit that's happened. Sheedy condoned all that stuff. He loved it so don't try and paint a picture it's all Jean's doing.

Dipper was the most dirty, sniping fat thug of the modern era post 1980.

He’d line blokes up 50 times a season with heavy bumps because he was too lazy to tackle.

I’m pretty sure Yabby never ever told him to settle down and stop smashing blokes.

Shane Heard completely shutting down Dippo in the 84’ grand final is one of the all time best tagging jobs in GF history.

Because as much as a dirty piece of shit that Dipper was, he was Hawthorn’s most valuable weapon in the midfield.

Also in the 84’ GF...Dippa’s disgusting dog act punch to Kevin Walsh’s head in the 3qrt actually helped us completely destroy Hawthorn after.

We had a 6 or 7 minute break to reset while they stretchered KW off and the Hawk momentum died down after it.

We went on to
Steamroll Hawthorn partly in thanks to Dipper’s idiot act.

 

[Cyclops]

Yeah I was there too in 90’..I was 20 years old

But standing room rear punt rd end so a fair way away from it and I was drunk as hell by then because me and my mate got in there at 9am to get a spot and from memory they started serving beer at 10.30 or so.

Terry was at the end of his time then and I can honestly say it was totally out of character him doing that.

All the way back to when he debuted for Essendon 78’ I cannot remember a moment of him doing something thuggish.

All I mostly remember of that game is how well Millane played. We had a huge bloke next to us who was a pie with a booming voice and would yell out “ the raggggggggging bullll!!!” every time he got the ball.

We left 10 minutes into the last.

You could hear the Collingwood crowd from Richmond platform when the siren went …

Brother I was in Bay 38 but that was probably me astral projecting around the ground.

The things I saw at that game. Some dh dropped a banana peel and the bloke in front of me slipped on it. The look on his face when he realised what had happened, shame, disbelief, laughter.

TD was hard but you're right, never an assassin. Both our clubs have had plenty of those.

Back to Matthews and Jeans, his Saint side in the 60's was rougher than usual, his hawks in the 80's were if anything more fluid and skilled than dirty. hear me out, I know what Brereton was, Dipper hurt guys on purpose and by accident. Matthews was a sneaky thug. once the 1983 side was phased out they became a more and more skilled side. Langford rarely thugged (1991 was an aberration, and anyway that was Joyce, a bit tougher of a coach), Mew was fair, Kennedy and Tuck were fair, Ayres retaliated but rarely initiated (did put Ablett down, subdued West Coast's Wilson with a look), Dunstall was boringly fair. Platten was a ducker but in a mild way (his floppy hair helped with frees). Pritchard, Mcguinniss, Morrissey, Jenke, Curran, these Yabby-specials were ball players.

Jeans was a copper and that may have helped get ODea off, but his hawthorn side was mostly Parkin era thugs, and he selected more skills based players.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

This thread is a great reminder that the past isn’t always better.

Am I right in saying trial by video was introduced in the aftermath of the Matthews hit on Bruns?

Also hawks fans booed bruns from then on, watch the 89 GF and he is booed whenever he gets the ball.

He spent half the match punching and sniping Dipper. Bloke was a hypocrite. Dished it out but always squealed when he copped it back. Pretty sure dipper got caught re

Dipper was the most dirty, sniping fat thug of the modern era post 1980.

He’d line blokes up 50 times a season with heavy bumps because he was too lazy to tackle.

I’m pretty sure Yabby never ever told him to settle down and stop smashing blokes.

Shane Heard completely shutting down Dippo in the 84’ grand final is one of the all time best tagging jobs in GF history.

Because as much as a dirty piece of s**t that Dipper was, he was Hawthorn’s most valuable weapon in the midfield.

Again your players were angels in comparison were they? Merv Nagle did multiple thuggish things. Rotten Ronnie Andrews? Roger Merrett lined up blokes on a weekly basis but that's all fine according to you. Pathetic attempt at a character assassination on Dipper too. Probably cant stand the fact he regularly destroyed you blokes with and without the ball. Bring up the GFs all you like after 85 you struggled to get near us and Dipper was a contributer in that.

 

[Robroy22]

Rubbish

Robroy22, Do you recall Hawthorns "Delicate" Des Dickson?

All the Hawk Hard men and thugs speak of him with reverence.

A mate of mines dad, who played a handful of games for the pies back in the 60's said he was the most horrifyingly scary player in the league, and was feared by all. Was far more interested in the knuckle than the ball.

I think he only playes 4-5 years in the years when not all games were televised, so he has been lost a bit in the history of VFL/AFL thugs.

I do remember Des, but may I say at the outset that in those days you only really saw oppo players twice a year (sometimes three but that depended on finals) and Des never really started anything really serious against the Pies in my time. Maybe that was coincidental with Collingwood having a couple of fairly handy "enforcers" in Barry "Hooker" Harrison and of course the "Weed" Murray Weideman but Des was never much of a footballer he wasn't overly talented and he wasn't fast enough to catch up with Bobby Rose or the other Pies players. I seem to remember Des having some run ins with various Carlton and Sth Melbourne players but as I remember he didn't seem to do much to our boys.

 

[GWT6]

Matthews should be remembered as a coward and one of the worst humans to play the game. But he is part of the AFL boys club, so they canonise him.

He was a sook who king hit people when he was being beaten. A real lowlife who should have been kicked out of the game, but continued to do it.

The Bruns one gets highlighted all the lime like it was a one-off. He did this dozens of times. Gave a Melbourne player a permanent brain injury.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Dipper was the most dirty, sniping fat thug of the modern era post 1980.

He’d line blokes up 50 times a season with heavy bumps because he was too lazy to tackle.

I’m pretty sure Yabby never ever told him to settle down and stop smashing blokes.

Shane Heard completely shutting down Dippo in the 84’ grand final is one of the all time best tagging jobs in GF history.

Because as much as a dirty piece of s**t that Dipper was, he was Hawthorn’s most valuable weapon in the midfield.

Also in the 84’ GF...Dippa’s disgusting dog act punch to Kevin Walsh’s head in the 3qrt actually helped us completely destroy Hawthorn after.

We had a 6 or 7 minute break to reset while they stretchered KW off and the Hawk momentum died down after it.

We went on to
Steamroll Hawthorn partly in thanks to Dipper’s idiot act.

I see your not defending Sheedy either just going on with the Hawks were worse thugs narrative. And that King hit your referring too was an elbow to the head when Walsh had the ball. So it's not a king hit than is it just an undisciplined football act. I'm not here preaching he didn't dish out some dirty stuff it's the Hollier than hou attitude you have towards your own mob l.

 

[Shane Heard]

He spent half the match punching and sniping Dipper. Bloke was a hypocrite. Dished it out but always squealed when he copped it back. Pretty sure dipper got caught re

Again your players were angels in comparison were they? Merv Nagle did multiple thuggish things. Rotten Ronnie Andrews? Roger Merrett lined up blokes on a weekly basis but that's all fine according to you. Pathetic attempt at a character assassination on Dipper too. Probably cant stand the fact he regularly destroyed you blokes with and without the ball. Bring up the GFs all you like after 85 you struggled to get near us and Dipper was a contributer in that.

Got some points with Merv, Roger and Ronnie… but their job there in part was to protect Watson, Daisy Williams, Leon Baker and other fair ball players from psychopaths like Dermott and Dipper.

Colin Robertson hitting Watson in 83’gf actually spured us on to make sure we smash you in the next two grand finals.

You were humiliated on both of those days and it was glorious

 

[Shane Heard]

Matthews should be remembered as a coward and one of the worst humans to play the game. But he is part of the AFL boys club, so they canonise him.

He was a sook who king hit people when he was being beaten. A real lowlife who should have been kicked out of the game, but continued to do it.

The Bruns one gets highlighted all the lime like it was a one-off. He did this dozens of times. Gave a Melbourne player a permanent brain injury.

“But he is part of the AFL boys club, so they canonise him.”

No truer words have ever been written…

 

[Shane Heard]

I see your not defending Sheedy either just going on with the Hawks were worse thugs narrative. And that King hit your referring too was an elbow to the head when Walsh had the ball. So it's not a king hit than is it just an undisciplined football act. I'm not here preaching he didn't dish out some dirty stuff it's the Hollier than hou attitude you have towards your own mob l.

Turn it up ffs lol

A late, deliberate thuggish elbow to the face at full pace while they player clearly takes a mark and is defenceless with arms up is in the king hit category and you know it.

Could have killed the bloke considering how much dipper weighed and the force of power he inflicted.

 

[Robroy22]

I'll never understand how belting blokes when they weren't looking was remotely seen as "tough".

Even allowing for It Was A Different Era....I get that a bloke going hard at the ball and the man might be seen as courageous. But king hitting someone when they're completely not expecting it (especially if it was against a fair ball-player) is a cowardly act, why were these guys seen as "Hard Men"??

And that's the essence of the entire business. There have always been really tough players but invariably they have been the ones contesting the ball in man on man situations. From time to time blokes would lose their temper (think Mal Brown, Barry Hall, Phil Carman and the classical John Bourke in the VFL who hit everyone from players to trainers to spectators!)

But its the king-hits, the gutless "executions" that certain players have visited on unsuspecting opponents that make spectators blood boil. They are criminal acts, assaults perpetrated under the guise of a football code and they enable lesser players to influence the lives and careers of their innocent victims.

Gun players have always attracted the "extra attention" of opponents. They get tagged, held off the ball, blocked, pushed to unbalance, gut punched (winded), verbally and physically abused and the AFL and other codes seemingly accept that. BUT when thugs can physically injure opponents intentionally in order to win a game of footy then the game is in a perilous state.

Country footballers have known this thuggery for years. Perhaps thankfully for us the AFL only revisits the true reality of it on rare occasions but for John Greening, Alan Stoneham, Des Healey and others...the premeditated violence ended their dreams.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Got some points with Merv, Roger and Ronnie… but their job there in part was to protect Watson, Daisy Williams, Leon Baker and other fair ball players from psychopaths like Dermott and Dipper.

Colin Robertson hitting Watson in 83’gf actually spured us on to make sure we smash you in the next two grand finals.

You were humiliated on both of those days and it was glorious

So basically this is just I hate Hawthorn with what your posting. Admitting your team had thugs too but ours were worse. Your 2000 team had quite a few nasty snipers in it as well. Solomon, Wallis, Moorcroft was a piece of shit too who loved a fight. Long's hit on Simmonds in the GF was about as gutless and cowardly as can get. These days you would get 10 weeks for something like that. Common denominator is that Sheedy was still your coach. Not the most likeable bloke either from what I hear around the traps from the other coaches outside of Hawthorn so it's a bit rich your moaning and complaining about how other teams went about things.