Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

More raids on conscripts in St Petersburg, this time around Subway entrances/exits. Unmarked authorities checking docs of able gents, looking for those without deferment proof.

Potentially a real and happening chance to put an end to the war, if the families get shirty.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Frank Grimes]

More raids on conscripts in St Petersburg, this time around Subway entrances/exits. Unmarked authorities checking docs of able gents, looking for those without deferment proof.

Potentially a real and happening chance to put an end to the war, if the families get shirty.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

Seems that Putin doesn't want a mass exodus again and starting to conscript people through stealth or being low key.

 

[wannabejack]

Look, I am totally behind giving Ukraine the military support it desperately needs, but inflicting Tucker on the Russian population, even for a short period of time, is below the belt and a red-line that should not have been crossed.

Before Iateallthepies gets in.

 

[Zidane98]

No way there can be peace under capitalism.
The only way this conflict can be resolved is through the abolition of capitalism. Ukrainian and Russian working class have to fight their real enemies: the Putin and Zelensky governments.

As for palming off the display of an SS based insignia as "nothing", that is absurd. You draw absolutely nothing from the fact that Scholz- the head of the German government - allows himself to be photographed with a Nazi insignia on display - given the history of Germany!!

Then you have the audacity to accuse me of defending fascism!! Look in the mirror mate

You are really showing your colors here by posting outright pro Russian disinformation about Ukraine.

Azov is not linked to Nazi death squads, this is an outright lie. The current Azov battalion is separate to the Azov movement. Members include Jewish, Muslim, Russian speaking and other ethnicities.

And once again, the enemy of Ukranian people is Putin & fascist Russia. Because they are the ones trying to destroy Ukranian culture, sovereignty, independence by force to expand Putin's delusions of a Russian empire.

You are supporting this by posting pretty much every single lie that Russia promotes about Ukraine. This is exactly what Hitler did with the Sudtenland Germans before WW2.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

Before Iateallthepies gets in.
View attachment 2182003

Imagine a world where NATO, EU & USA pulls all support from Ukraine and Ukraine goes the nuclear proliferation route? Don't think nuclear armageddon would be limited between Russia and Ukraine should shite goes down.

Don't say Ukraine doesn't have this capability, they sure do have the raw materials necessary.

 

[Zidane98]

Imagine a world where NATO, EU & USA pulls all support from Ukraine and Ukraine goes the nuclear proliferation route? Don't think nuclear armageddon would be limited between Russia and Ukraine should shite goes down.

Don't say Ukraine doesn't have this capability, they sure do have the raw materials necessary.

Ukraine has everything needed for a nuclear weapons program. If Ukraine didn't do the Budapest agreement there's no way Russia would ever have dreamed of invading.





Legally Ukraine has the right to recover any equipment that was transferred under a bilateral agreement that is not being honored by either party.

Enforcement would be rather difficult though. Perhaps they should sneak in some undercover guys to take a dozen TU-22 bombers all at once and flee back to Ukraine!!

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Zidane98]

Oops

 

[wannabejack]

.... Ukrainian and Russian working class have to fight their real enemies: the Putin and Zelensky governments...

How do you suggest that your working class fight their real enemies: the Putin and Zelensky governments. By fight, do you mean take up arms against their governments?

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Smeg Head]

Lemmings.cliff.

View attachment 2181856

Look at you you corporate shill. Lemmings off a cliff is a disney perpetuated myth. Better tell your friends over in HQ to update their botware.

 

[Not Important]

a devious prick is johnson. a real snake oil salesman. if the u.s abandons ukraine, it’ll be another indelible mark against that joint. he'd be a hit selling used cars.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[IlovethePies]

Try telling a Ukrainian they are fighting a proxy war for America. It’s condescending crap.
They are arming a country fighting for their survival

So how do you explain the growing numbers of Ukrainian soldiers abandoning their positions and refusing to fight?

How do you explain the recruitment crisis in Ukraine, and the demands by its US masters to lower the conscription age?

If you believe that the US does anything at all in the name of "democracy" or "freedom", then you are living in a parallel universe.

 

[IlovethePies]

Before Iateallthepies gets in.
View attachment 2182003

Your best ever post.

 

[IlovethePies]

How do you suggest that your working class fight their real enemies: the Putin and Zelensky governments. By fight, do you mean take up arms against their governments?

It will be a political fight. In both Ukraine and Russia, the workers must turn to international socialism.
They need to establish working class parties that insist on the necessity for Ukrainian and Russian workers to unify their struggle, aiming to seize political power from the capitalist oligarchs who rule both countries.

When the wealth of the oligarchs is expropriated, the need for war is immediately ended, because their vast accumulation of wealth will now be aimed at addressing social need and not the profit requirements of a network of capitalist billionaires and gigantic finance institutions.

 

[Bloods86]

It will be a political fight. In both Ukraine and Russia, the workers must turn to international socialism.
They need to establish working class parties that insist on the necessity for Ukrainian and Russian workers to unify their struggle, aiming to seize political power from the capitalist oligarchs who rule both countries.

When the wealth of the oligarchs is expropriated, the need for war is immediately ended, because their vast accumulation of wealth will now be aimed at addressing social need and not the profit requirements of a network of capitalist billionaires and gigantic finance institutions.

How do you propose a working class party competes in Russia without their candidates falling out of windows, getting poisoned, having eligibility rules changed on them, signatures thrown out or just good old fashioned vote rigging?

Just insist harder?

 

[IlovethePies]

How do you propose a working class party competes in Russia without their candidates falling out of windows, getting poisoned, having eligibility rules changed on them, signatures thrown out or just good old fashioned vote rigging?

Just insist harder?

Similar conditions exist in Ukraine. Why did you leave out Ukraine in this question?

 

[IlovethePies]

Look at you you corporate shill. Lemmings off a cliff is a disney perpetuated myth. Better tell your friends over in HQ to update their botware.

Yeah, maybe a Disney fabrication, but gets the point across.

A stampede of the brainwashed plunging to their death.

 

[Bloods86]

Similar conditions exist in Ukraine. Why did you leave out Ukraine in this question?

Because I live in the real world

 

[IlovethePies]

Because I live in the real world

You raise a great philosophical point.
What is the real world?
Is it mind over matter, or matter over mind?
You take the former position my friend.
The real world to you is what you want it to be.

 

[Bloods86]

You raise a great philosophical point.
What is the real world?
Is it mind over matter, or matter over mind?
You take the former position my friend.
The real world to you is what you want it to be.

No, it's just the one real world.

You should visit sometime.

 

[IlovethePies]

More raids on conscripts in St Petersburg, this time around Subway entrances/exits. Unmarked authorities checking docs of able gents, looking for those without deferment proof.

Potentially a real and happening chance to put an end to the war, if the families get shirty.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

Same in Ukraine.

Crisis in manpower shortage as soldiers desert, realiising that they are being sent on suicide missions.

Real possibliity that the opposition to war in Ukraine could coalesce with similar opposition in Russia to form a unified anti war movement across both countries.

That would f**& up both Putin and Zelensky, and put an end to this war in a progressive manner.

 

[Bloods86]

No one can visit your world because literally it exists in your mind.

How original.

 

[IlovethePies]

How original.

I never claimed to be original.